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In a Life or Death situation...


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Well, whilst energy can't be destroyed, a person can be made to be dead and no longer function. Although the energy in our body disperses and we get eaten by other animals and so on, I don't see why that makes it less of a concern! Nobody knows what "happens" upon death, whether what we experience now is some form of illusion or something we can't even understand at the moment, or if there is some kind of afterlife or whatever. But from our perspective now, from what we understand about the body and brain, when someone dies, their brain stops working, their heart isn't beating, they are not conscious, it's the end, that is how I perceive it at the moment, so I feel it is understandable to fear it, if you enjoy life at all

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Well, whilst energy can't be destroyed, a person can be made to be dead and no longer function. Although the energy in our body disperses and we get eaten by other animals and so on, I don't see why that makes it less of a concern! Nobody knows what "happens" upon death, whether what we experience now is some form of illusion or something we can't even understand at the moment, or if there is some kind of afterlife or whatever. But from our perspective now, from what we understand about the body and brain, when someone dies, their brain stops working, their heart isn't beating, they are not conscious, it's the end, that is how I perceive it at the moment, so I feel it is understandable to fear it, if you enjoy life at all

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I seriously recommend the books 'Way of the Peaceful Warrior' by Dan Millman and Eckhart Tolle's books ('A New Earth' and 'Practising the Power of Now' especially). Some of you might have seen Eckhart Tolle, he was on Oprah a while back.

 

I personally stay away from Icke, I heard he talks about conspiracy stuff a lot which I avoid now...makes no sense reading it really because learning a load of negative stuff that may or may not be true about how the world is run is secretly in control of the Jews or lizards or whatever didn't serve me. I got all hyped up thinking 'OMG!!! and worrying like mad about the NWO (lol).

 

Same reason I don't read the papers, a mate of mine is from Palestine where all the trouble is and he mentionned whats been happening recently and because I don't read the papers/watch the tv I didn't know about it. He was really offended that I didn't know 'what awful stuff was happening' and my point was 'whats the point of knowing?' Just knowing about it, getting yourself worked up is pointless when you're unable to help with the situation. I said to him, 'What are you doing about it?' and he said nothing obviously. That's my point right there!

 

There's just as much good things happening in the world but the media ignore all that don't they? I'd say at least 85% of news media around here is negative.

 

Check this out re: 9/11 and the idea of some sort of global consciousness/awareness.

 

http://www.glcoherence.org/monitoring-system/about-system.html

 

Re: Richard

 

That is a good point and I do feel what you're saying. I'm not saying it's not understandable to fear death though, or I didn't mean it to come across like that. Though I think it's more a fear of pain and fear of the unknown. I do enjoy Life immensely though, I don't position myself under falling trees if that's what you mean. It's hard to express what I mean through words to be honest. Death to me isn't as much the end, more of change. Like a metamorphasis. Say one of my family members died yesterday, I wouldn't want to be depressed I would prefer to feel grateful and happy for the time I have spent with them.

 

Then again maybe my brain just wants to justify and rationalise my beliefs so I can feel comfortable with my outlook on death and therefore not fear it? We all fear what we don't understand lol. I guess the end all is that we don't know period. Maybe I should stop trying to know????

 

Thanks for the discussion chaps, no more, my head hurts now...

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Death could be considered to be a metamorphosis - changing a living body into a dead body As far as we are concerned now, a person's consciousness and ability to function and interpret existence comes from the brain. If the living brain metamorphs into a non-living brain, you will no longer interpret or feel anything, so it's not a good metamorphosis really - you won't experience anything after the metamorphosis, only possibly during it, and then your consciousness will not function, and that's the end. It would be nice to think that what we become after death, or where our bodies end up, we could still feel something, and "exist" in some way, through the animals which have digested us, or in the plants which we have fed, or in bacteria and so on. I don't see the evidence for that though. I see death as inevitable, and so in that way I try to come to terms with it, as something that is coming, and that I can't avoid forever. In some ways, that makes it easier to relax about since I know there is no action I can take, nothing to be done, so why worry? But on the other hand, it makes life incredibly depressing to know that there will be an end to it, and there is no escape

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There is no escape. YOU and I are both DOOMED lol!

 

I agree, I don't think we retain any form of consciousness. That would be a bit crazy being a bird or a tree and thinking about your previous time as a human. I just don't think our essence is lost so to speak.

 

...Future tree laughs to itself remembering about the time it was a guy called Robert and he was posting about death.

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I guess it depends what you mean by essence. The matter / energy that we are made of is not destroyed - but that matter (a dead body) has no consciousness, nothing controlling it as a cohesive being, it is just a dead body, a bunch of cells. Everything is still there, it just doesn't work anymore. I don't see the evidence for things beyond that, like a soul or spirit

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thoughts are not localized in the brain. i have no problem accepting the fact that my body will die, because i know that i am not restricted to this body. the body is just the vehicle imho.

 

i guess we're all going to believe what we want. i for one find life much more meaningful when i try to think outside myself, whatever that means...

 

as far as david icke goes, i really dont find a lot of what he says to be that outrageous. if you do i can certainly respect that.

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Thoughts are not localized in the brain. Yeah I could believe that, there are those stories of people receiving organ transplants and having dreams/reliving memories as the other person. I think there was a young girl who recieved the heart of a murder victim and ended up solving the murder with knowledge that only the victim/donor could have known. Truth or myth it still intrigues the hell out of me. Lyn McTaggart's 'The Field' talks about this as well I think.

 

Man is this off topic or what lol!

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Maybe I misunderstand what a brain is, and what its function is, and what the function of our other organs are, I've never heard anything else besides the brain being the thing which determines how we behave, and where memories are stored, and thoughts are processed. These kinds of abilities are lost or damaged when someone has brain damage. And people with mental illnesses suffer behavioural, perception and memory problems, because it is the brain which is affected. You don't get the same thing when you damage other parts of your body, just the brain. If you did an operation to remove someone's brain, that person would no longer function - that is my understanding.

 

But either way, even if thoughts are processed elsewhere in the body - that will cease once you are dead, because that part of the body will no longer function either when you are dead. It is nice to think that there is a soul or spirit that lives on beyond death, but I haven't heard of any evidence, it just seems to be what people want to be true, rather than there being any reason to think it is true.

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thoughts are not localized in the brain. i have no problem accepting the fact that my body will die, because i know that i am not restricted to this body. the body is just the vehicle imho.

Thoughts most certainly are localized in the brain. They're nothing but a series of electrical impulses. The body may just be the hardware, but when that hardware breaks down, the software doesn't have anything to run on.

as far as david icke goes, i really dont find a lot of what he says to be that outrageous. if you do i can certainly respect that.

And when our reptilian humanoid illuminati leaders are finally revealed, and Icke is worshipped as the son of God he claims to be, you can say, "I told you so." Darn that extraterrestrial Luciferic Consciousness!

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Our being is not just made up of our body & brain, we also have a soul, which animates us & gives us our identity.

 

The soul may pass into another body after death, that is why people experience past life memories.The Dalai Lama in his book 'Freedom in Exile' discusses this subject, when he talks about how each succesive Dalai Lama is chosen.The process involved is very interesting, to say the least.

 

No scientific evidence exists to support the idea of a soul because the soul is not made of physical material.Our science is at present limited to examining physical objects, like trees, people, sand or atoms.Therefore it is at the moment unable to prove or disprove anything existing outside the realm of our perception of matter.Science will not be limited in this way for much longer.... For an interesting read on our false perception of matter read "The Matter Myth - Dramatic discoveries that challenge our understanding of physical reality" by Paul Davies

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thoughts are not localized in the brain. i have no problem accepting the fact that my body will die, because i know that i am not restricted to this body. the body is just the vehicle imho.

Thoughts most certainly are localized in the brain. They're nothing but a series of electrical impulses. The body may just be the hardware, but when that hardware breaks down, the software doesn't have anything to run on.

as far as david icke goes, i really dont find a lot of what he says to be that outrageous. if you do i can certainly respect that.

And when our reptilian humanoid illuminati leaders are finally revealed, and Icke is worshipped as the son of God he claims to be, you can say, "I told you so." Darn that extraterrestrial Luciferic Consciousness!

 

 

i appreciate your point of view on this subject.

 

to be fair, im not really the type of person to say "i told you so."

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Our being is not just made up of our body & brain, we also have a soul, which animates us & gives us our identity.

 

The soul may pass into another body after death, that is why people experience past life memories.The Dalai Lama in his book 'Freedom in Exile' discusses this subject, when he talks about how each succesive Dalai Lama is chosen.The process involved is very interesting, to say the least.

 

No scientific evidence exists to support the idea of a soul because the soul is not made of physical material.Our science is at present limited to examining physical objects, like trees, people, sand or atoms.Therefore it is at the moment unable to prove or disprove anything existing outside the realm of our perception of matter.Science will not be limited in this way for much longer.... For an interesting read on our false perception of matter read "The Matter Myth - Dramatic discoveries that challenge our understanding of physical reality" by Paul Davies

 

outstanding post

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Infact, through progressive hypnosis, it occurs that people recall past life memories, even if in their conscious state they do not even believe in such a thing.

 

Often, details that are thrown up during these hynosis sessions, are checked afterwards & found to match precise historical names, dates or times.

 

The only argument sceptics have against this fact is that maybe the person knew the details already from a TV program or book, or perhaps that the hypnotist is fraudulent.This is certainly the case in some, but not all of the cases.

 

These memories are stored or atleast accessed through the soul - as our physical brain only stores information from our current life.Only once the information is obtained through the soul, and visualised, does our brain then store the information, on a physical level.

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Infact, through progressive hypnosis, it occurs that people recall past life memories, even if in their conscious state they do not even believe in such a thing.

 

Often, details that are thrown up during these hynosis sessions, are checked afterwards & found to match precise historical names, dates or times.

 

The only argument sceptics have against this fact is that maybe the person knew the details already from a TV program or book, or perhaps that the hypnotist is fraudulent.This is certainly the case in some, but not all of the cases.

 

These memories are stored or atleast accessed through the soul - as our physical brain only stores information from our current life.Only once the information is obtained through the soul, and visualised, does our brain then store the information, on a physical level.

Evidence? Sources?

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Type "past life regression" into google & you will have plenty of accounts, studies & interesting stories at your fingertips.Of course you need to actually look at them!

 

A really common, but short sighted view has developed in the last 100 years or so, and that is the view that if something cannot be brought into a lab & dissected, electrocuted, photographed & then put into a museum, then it is not real.It is called fantasy or fringe/pseudo science.This includes phenomena like the soul, ghosts, UFO's, shamanism & past lives, despite the fact that the human race has been exposed to these phenomena for as long as we have recorded our history.

 

People say, where is the evidence? Can you prove it? But they only accept physical evidence.IE: Science only accepts evidence in the format of something being made of matter.They ignore all other aspects of what should be considered proof, like observation (I posted a link elsewhere to a news story here in the UK last month where an entire village reported seeing around 70 strange craft in the skies - this observation by a disparate group of adult humans constitutes proof in my opinion) Similarily, despite so many accounts of ghost sightings, ghosts are still considered fantasy by mainstream science.The problem with this narrow sighted, matter obsessed science, is that it ignores anything that is non matter & also ignores the gaping flaws in matter itself.

 

As I said before, to read about the gaping flaws in our understanding of matter, & our obsession with this 1 aspect of our reality, read "The Matter Myth - Dramatic discoveries that challenge our understanding of physical reality" by Paul Davies

 

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Type "past life regression" into google & you will have plenty of accounts, studies & interesting stories at your fingertips.Of course you need to actually look at them!

I've done that, and none of them are scientific. None of them are proof. None of them contain concrete, repeatable evidence.

 

People say, where is the evidence? Can you prove it? But they only accept physical evidence.IE: Science only accepts evidence in the format of something being made of matter.They ignore all other aspects of what should be considered proof, like observation (I posted a link elsewhere to a news story here in the UK last month where an entire village reported seeing around 70 strange craft in the skies - this observation by a disparate group of adult humans constitutes proof in my opinion) Similarily, despite so many accounts of ghost sightings, ghosts are still considered fantasy by mainstream science.The problem with this narrow sighted, matter obsessed science, is that it ignores anything that is non matter & also ignores the gaping flaws in matter itself.

That's a total straw man. Science absolutely loves "non-matter." In fact, science no longer sees energy and matter as being separate, and it hasn't for a long while. Scientists are happy to accept energy as part of an explanation, and that's pretty much as non-physical as you can get. But claims need to be testable and the results consistent before they can be considered anything close to fact.

 

Ghosts are considered fantasy by mainstream science because they are untestable phenomena that may or may not have occurred, may or may not be related, and may or may not have benign explanations, but that a certain group of people has chosen to lump together without regard for any of the above factors and label "ghosts."

 

As I said before, to read about the gaping flaws in our understanding of matter, & our obsession with this 1 aspect of our reality, read "The Matter Myth - Dramatic discoveries that challenge our understanding of physical reality" by Paul Davies

The Matter Myth does a good job explaining exactly why scientists are no longer focused exclusively on matter. It's also almost 20 years out of date. And it doesn't support making an unfounded assertion like "we also have a soul, which animates us & gives us our identity" as if it were fact.

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By the response time of your post I can see that you did not spend much time going through the results you found on google.I said you have to read them to understand!

 

If you ask me for sources, I provide them, & you dont read them, but continue to rant on about proof & repeatable evidence, then why have I spent some of my time responding to you? And why if you are not absorbing what I am saying are you spending your time responding?

 

Lets just say you are on 1 side of the argument, & I am on the other 7 sides.

 

Have a good weekend, I am just leaving work & I try not to use the internet at weekends.

 

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By the response time of your post I can see that you did not spend much time going through the results you found on google.I said you have to read them to understand!

Believe it or not, Cap'n Assumption, I had access to the Internet before your post today at 11:45AM. There's even a possibility I had already googled before asking you for evidence and sources, just to make sure there aren't any common and reputable ones.

 

If you ask me for sources, I provide them, & you dont read them, but continue to rant on about proof & repeatable evidence, then why have I spent some of my time responding to you? And why if you are not absorbing what I am saying are you spending your time responding?

You didn't provide them. "Google for 'past life regression'" is not a source; it's a cop-out. If you make a wild assertion, the onus is on you to provide evidence for it. Please provide a specific source.

 

Lets just say you are on 1 side of the argument, & I am on the other 7 sides.

It doesn't matter how many personalities you have if none of them understand science.

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What is considered to be evidence by people who believe in ghosts / souls, is not considered to be evidence by people who don't believe in ghosts / souls. So these types of conversations ultimately come to that dead end, and there's not much more to say usually, and then it often becomes hostile. That's why I'm probably not going to say much more here, I've never changed anyone's mind on the subject. People's opinions on this come from their fundamental beliefs about the universe, and that's hard to alter especially just in a conversation

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What is considered to be evidence by people who believe in ghosts / souls, is not considered to be evidence by people who don't believe in ghosts / souls. So these types of conversations ultimately come to that dead end, and there's not much more to say usually, and then it often becomes hostile. That's why I'm probably not going to say much more here, I've never changed anyone's mind on the subject. People's opinions on this come from their fundamental beliefs about the universe, and that's hard to alter especially just in a conversation

Either way, I'm eating that stupid penguin.

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