xjohanx Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Seriously what's going on? Situation seems to be out of control and I can not really wrap my head around this. The western worlds reaction to this is a fucking joke and words can't really express the way I feel about my own and other countrys governments.Fuck this, fuck zionism. What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I don’t understand what the Israeli government hopes to achieve with this war, other than to feed Palestinian hatred and recruit for Hamas. Their actions are completely disproportionate to the threat to which they are responding. Since the media has been banned from Gaza we haven’t seen much of the devastation, but videos like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYKmA_o4lAE are unbelievably sad. Has anyone seen the documentary On the Objection Front? http://www.linktv.org/programs/objection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I haven't seen that documentary. In the U.S., many media outlets are owned by huge conglomerates so media content is definitely controlled to some extent. When I lived on the east coast, it was considered a bit rude to talk in an anti-Israeli or pro-Palestinian fashion because of the large population of Jews living there - we being so "politically correct" and all that. I find the west coast to be a bit more sympathetic to the Palestinians. For the most part, however, U.S. residents are fairly U.S.-centric as that's how we've been brought up in this culture. We know that our government has certain ties with other countries and we only seem to get upset when those ties result in a change in our lifestyle or a threat to our wealth. But that doesn't describe everyone. Many people are upset by what is happening in Gaza but we've witnessed that our thoughts certainly don't matter to the past presidential administration and now we have much bigger problems to deal with in the next administration. On a personal level, I think the entire creation of Israel was a poor idea and the continuous war, death and pain that has existed since its creation bears that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acesfull Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xveganjoshx Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 On a personal level, I think the entire creation of Israel was a poor idea and the continuous war, death and pain that has existed since its creation bears that out.The voice of truth strikes again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I try not to pull it out of its box too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivalasvegans Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Portlanders who are interested, there's gonna be a protest about this at pioneer courthouse square today at 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarz Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 It’s a sad situation. It disappoints me that Isreali actions are always portrayed as a response to Palestinian provocation, and that Palestinian actions are always described as unprovoked, and not as a response to Isreali occupation, embargo and blockade. When the ceasefires always break down, you normally only read of when the Palestinians are responsible and not the Isreali’s. Sometimes it is the Palestinians fault, but not always. Both sides can be as bad. I understand though why Isreal has to – appear to at least – strike hard, what being surrounded by enemies, many intent on its destruction. I’m as disturbed as anyone by the discrepency in casualty figures, but don’t doubt that Hamas and other groups would have no qualms about inflicting heavy casualties if only they had the means. I have to chuckle when the Palestinians are not allowed to arm themselves, but it’s OK for the Isreali’s to be the reciepants of billions of dollars of aid and equipment from the US and others. Can only be rueful with the talk of democracy in the Middle East, then refusing to recognise and have contacts with the legitimate winners of those elections. I’m sure I read/heard somewhere once that Hamas was actually created/nurtured by the Isreali’s back in the 1980’s… That said - and I’m no Isreali apologist - it is a complex issue. I think the Palestinians are as much a victim of the Arab states - who do little to help them in terms of land and aid as it suits them to have the Palestinian cause as a stick against Israel - as they are Israel. Also the amount of Isreali land is tiny compared to Arab land in the Middle East – the Arab states could give up some of their land for the Palestinians but do not. There is always talk of the 1967 borders but people forget that it was Isreal who was attacked in 1967 and it is understandable that it retained the Sinai and still retains the Golan Heights for defensive reasons. What is often overlooked too is the Jewish exiles forced from their historic homes in Arab states after 1948, so it is not just the Palestinians who are exiles/refugees. Also there are many situations like this throughout the world that do not attract the same publicity or cause celebre. It doesn’t make any of these situations right, it’s just that many focus on the Middle East without the same interest and outrage of similar disputes elsewhere in the globe. The dislocation and forced migration of people is often the sad outcome of war - who many know of the Sudeten Germans forcefully expelled from their homes in Czechoslovakia in 1945, and other Germans from what is now Western Poland? Why is there the Russian enclave of Kalinigrad on the Danzig? The Chechens and other minorities expelled to Siberia and other god-forsaken places by Stalin for supposedly siding with the Germans in the Great Patriotic War? No easy solution, what with hardliners on both sides and with the US administrations overwhelmingly biased in favour of Israel. Sad for those caught in the middle. I was going to march for an end to the Isreali’s attacks in London but didn’t bother as I didn’t want want to be associated with some of the dubious and dangerous extremist Muslim groups that appear on these marches. ‘Londonistan’ by Melanie Philips is very good on this. Maybe the Isreali’s know their enemy better than we think they/we do…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivalasvegans Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 There's another demo in Portland today at 3 at the square... Also, fuck Israel. Over 300 Palestinian kids dead since this most recent campaign due to Israeli bombing assisted by US technology, weapons, and massive amounts of cash. Not a complex issue. Just stop killing kids. The bottom line here is that Israel gets a pass because control of that area means access to oil rich areas. That's why Israel gets to go against the UN security council with impunity whenever it wants. If Europe, the US, et al were so concerned about the plight of Jews after ww2, they could have taken a chunk of Germany and given it over for the construction of a new state. The motive here is not human rights. It's cash and profit for oil and oil associated endeavors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawberryriddick Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 It’s a sad situation. etc. I completely agree with everything you said. It's complicated if only in our reporting of events. Things like this unfortunately happen worldwide. We back Israel not because they may be right in their position, but for the fact that we're allies. We'd put the same spin on it if it happened in, say, the UK. I don't claim to understand the hearts, minds, and motives of others, and for that reason I don't understand events like this. It's all just for selfish reasons that we rational people can't possibly comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veginator Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I haven't seen that documentary. In the U.S., many media outlets are owned by huge conglomerates so media content is definitely controlled to some extent. It happens in most countries, and happens with publicly as well as privately owned conglomerates (especially the ones like PBS that accept corporate ads). Recently the BBC refused to run an ad that they deemed "pro-Palestinian" even though it was produced by a human rights group concerned about the situation in Gaza. When I lived on the east coast, it was considered a bit rude to talk in an anti-Israeli or pro-Palestinian fashion because of the large population of Jews living there - we being so "politically correct" and all that. I was once yelled and screamed at in a crowded public market by a crazed Zionist fanatic for defending Palestinians' rights. The Zionists in the US accuse people who support the Palestinians' human rights of being "anti-Semitic." They're so blinded by racist hatred for Palestinians or anyone Arab or Muslim that they can't see that they're the ones being racist or that Israel is no different from if not worse than apartheid South Africa or the Jim Crow South. (Most Jews aren't Zionists, though, and don't particularly like what Israel does.) Now, ironically, we have a black President who, like past US Presidents, supports Israel's apartheid-style policies. Pretty disgusting. On a personal level, I think the entire creation of Israel was a poor idea and the continuous war, death and pain that has existed since its creation bears that out. I think many Native Americans would say the same thing about the creation of the US, for similar reasons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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