MSG IN VEG FOOD ...

[DaN]

I appreciate your opinion on the subject Hilary, and think as a personal testimony, it holds some credibility.Unlike some people on here like Bruce, I value accounts of personal experience.

 

Not saying you are, but just saying, I would hope you dont recommend or endorse any of those products, only based on your health.

 

[HCPinGviini]

Until then, we should all stick to what Im Your Man tries to do, which is avoid these processed un-natural products, and favour whole foods.He is simply one step ahead of you.

Or one step behind?

[CollegeB]

Edited January 28, 2009 by CollegeB

[CollegeB]

But MSG tastes so good! I can't give it up!

[Im Your Man]

Sorry for misquoting you, Hilary.

And you are right, MSG didn't cause any problem to you so far. And maybe it's even completely harmless for everybody. But maybe not. Again, some chain smokers live old, some not. Unfortunately for those who wonder if MSG are bad, it's not as easy as to diagnose a lung cancer clearly linked to smoking 2 packs of cigarettes per day.

[hilary wright]

No apology necessary, as you were making your point . . . but I do thank you for it.

[blabbate]

Wait, does this mean that VJoe wins?

Vegan Joe always wins.

[FormicaLinoleum]

Isolates are not necessarily bad for health in the right doses. Vitamin and mineral isolates can be very useful and important--for example, the B12 I take or the Vit D that people in dark areas/seasons should take. Sure, it's better to get vitamins and minerals from food as that means you're eating healthful food and getting other nutrients and benefits as well. But supplement or isolated forms are not necessarily harmful and will often fulfill the specific purpose they are meant for.

They also allow us to find the harmful threshold of otherwise harmless substances (Vit C, Iron, etc) without trying to get a sample of people to eat 100 oranges or 15 pounds of spinach or their own weight in soybeans. Without isolates we couldn't even control sufficient variables or perform blind studies.

Wait, that's kinda circular... the only reason to worry about harmful thresholds is because isolates exist, as it's really quite hard to reach harmful thresholds without them. So isolates can't really be considered useful for addressing a problem that they caused in the first place..

 

What I meant is that isolates/supplements can be useful for preventing deficiencies in cases where people, for whatever reason, cannot get enough of the substance through "natural" methods.

[blabbate]

They also allow us to find the harmful threshold of otherwise harmless substances (Vit C, Iron, etc) without trying to get a sample of people to eat 100 oranges or 15 pounds of spinach or their own weight in soybeans. Without isolates we couldn't even control sufficient variables or perform blind studies.

Wait, that's kinda circular... the only reason to worry about harmful thresholds is because isolates exist, as it's really quite hard to reach harmful thresholds without them. So isolates can't really be considered useful for addressing a problem that they caused in the first place..

That's definitely true in some cases (again, Vitamin C ... probably not the most useful), but there are situations where a person is dealing with abnormally high levels of iron or potassium or insulin or whatever, to the extent that their bodies contain amounts not normally attainable with a normal diet. Or they may be dealing with organ failure, particularly liver or kidney, in which cases normal levels of certain substances can become dangerous, but determining exactly which substances and at what levels is most reliably done with isolates.

 

I'm not saying we should isolate everything and test willy-nilly, just that there are a lot of situations where it's useful, especially when precision and control are required.

[blabbate]

I appreciate your opinion on the subject Hilary, and think as a personal testimony, it holds some credibility.Unlike some people on here like Bruce, I value accounts of personal experience.

 

Not saying you are, but just saying, I would hope you dont recommend or endorse any of those products, only based on your health.

Doesn't sound like he's generally endorsing, but he's also not saying to avoid them based only on his health. He's saying that for him, they work fine, and he's healthy.

 

Personal testimony is fine as personal testimony, but it's not necessarily generalizable. My problem is when people say that their personal experience is generally applicable. Or even worse, when the experience isn't even theirs, but simply hearsay.

[hilary wright]

Bruce is correct, I neither advocate nor discount the use of these substances. This is a general rule I follow. I have very strong beliefs, but don't try to force them on anyone. Also, this is from my perspective, but I haven't seen Bruce discount personal experience. I think that he has a very keen analytical mind that dissects fact from theory. As I haven't done any testing on this, I will add an IMO.

[VeganEssentials]

These products have only been consumed by our generation, our parents, & maybe our grand parents at the most.Therefore all the studies & case studies you quote are simply not the full picture.Sometimes things take a long time to have their effect, hundreds of years, maybe thousands.Certainly more than 3 generations.

 

Though, if I'm not mistaken, MSG does exist naturally in many sea veggies, some of which have been eaten by the Japanese and other cultures for thousands of years. This certainly would go well beyond the time frame of just a few generations as far as showing negative results in the long term.

 

Of course, I'm not referring to processed, isolated and refined MSG, rather, the identical naturally-occurring compounds that do exist in some foods in nature.

 

Not sticking up for MSG, not going against it, just stating what I've heard as far as it having been around a lot longer in natural form than most people give it credit for.

[Im Your Man]

Yeah but there's no MSG in nature/natural foods, there's glutamic acid. There's amino acids in all food and our body is made of amino acids.

MSG is a bit different and sometimes it doesn't take much to make a huge difference.

Nowadays scientists confuse isolated stuff with the whole product. They say eating fish is good because of the omega-3. But fish is not omega-3, it's fish - which means also mercury and heavy metal intoxication, risks of contamination by parasites eggs if eaten raw or not well cooked, etc...

They say it is good for health to eat chocolate, green tea and wine everyday because of antioxydants. But it's like if they said : it is good for health to eat saturated fats, caffeine and alcohol everyday.

 

They use a similar reasoning with MSG and Aspartame which are just slightly modified amino acids.

(But I think MSG can be obtained from food with a fairly natural process like fermentation, which make it less potentially harmful than for instance Aspartame which combination of amino acids can only be obtained by human manipulation and never occur in nature.)

Like for instance just by doing small modifications to benzene (petroleum) which cannot occur naturally you can produce dioxins. You can come up with 209 different PCB's because there's 209 different combinations possible. All you need is to remove some hydrogen molecules from benzene and replace with chlorine molecules and it becomes the most dangerous matter ever invented by man, 5000x more toxic than arsenic. The higher chlorine level, the most toxic it becomes, like DDT's used as herbicides, Monsanto's 2,4,5-T. The most toxic possible being 2,3,7,8-TCDD, or TCDD.

 

Those products are not natural and thereby our organism can't react naturally to those. Our body was designed to deal with elements found in nature. If you remove or add a molecule it modifies its structure and the body respond abnormally to abnormal elements.

 

It is scientifically accepted that everything in nature has a purpose, that nothing is there without a reason, that every different substances in an apple is essential to the whole apple. You know those Christmas tiny lights, if you remove one, all the others turn off. So what about an apple and other foods.

Much of MSG, Aspartame and other similar common food aditives are made with genetically modified organisms. Most of MSG isn't organic.

Foods cannot directly modify our DNA, but they can do it indirectly by modifying our chromosoms (DNA spirals), thereby influence the whole human DNA for future generations. Mutant cells in food lead to mutant human cells. Genetic modification consists of mixing elements together. We can make this analogy: if you take 3 persons of different nationality and speaking 3 different languages and you put them in one cell, do you think they will be able to live together and understand eachothers only because they're all humans? So what about putting fish genes into tomatoes or human genes in pigs or sheeps?

Do genetically modified foods are still recognized by our body as foods like the whole food nature designed them?

 

(Last paragraph based on texts in Brian Clements' book "living food for optimum health")

[Vegan Joe]

I don't know? I don't like it. seem to give me a belly ache. Try to avoid it. Don't like much the idea of chemicalizing my food just so it taste better. Except maybe for sugar. lol

 

I don't really know the answer, but I'm leaning towards no use for it, better off without it. did find this which seems to make sense to me.

 

What is the difference between the glutamic acid found in protein and the potentially harmful manufactured glutamic acid we refer to as MSG?

 

 

 

 

 

What is glutamic acid (glutamate)?

 

Glutamic acid is an amino acid found in abundance in both plant and animal protein. In humans it is a non-essential amino acid, i.e., the body is capable of producing its own glutamic acid, and is not dependent upon getting glutamic acid from ingested food.

 

 

Technically, glutamate is the salt of glutamic acid. Monosodium glutamate and monopotassium glutamate are salts of glutamic acid.

 

 

What is MSG?

 

Outside of the body, glutamic acid is produced commercially in food manufacturing and chemical plants. It's use in food began in the early 1900s as a component of a flavor enhancer called "monosodium glutamate." Unfortunately, any glutamic acid that is produced as an individual amino acid outside of the body for use in food, drugs, dietary supplements, cosmetics, personal care products, fertilizers, or other, can cause or exacerbate brain lesions, neuroendocrine disorders, learning disabilities, adverse reactions, neurodegenerative disease and more in animals -- including humans. Many people who realize that that glutamic acid that is produced commercially in food manufacturing and chemical plants places humans at risk refer to all commercially produced glutamic acid as "MSG."

 

Although an extract of seaweed had been used by oriental cultures to enhance food flavor for over 1,000 years, it was not until 1908 that the essential component responsible for the flavor phenomenon was identified as glutamic acid; and it was in 1910 that industrial production of glutamic acid designed for use in the food additive "monosodium glutamate" commenced. From 1910 until 1956, the process underlying production of "monosodium glutamate" was slow and costly. However, in 1956, the Japanese succeeded in producing glutamic acid by means of bacterial fermentation; and after considerable research to identify suitable strains of microorganisms for starting the requisite cultures, large-scale production of glutamic acid (and food additive "monosodium glutamate") through fermentation began.

 

The first published report of an adverse reaction to MSG appeared in 1968 (Kwok, R.H.M. The Chinese restaurant syndrome. Letter to the editor. N Engl J Med 278: 796, 1968). The first evidence that MSG caused brain damage in the form of retinal degeneration was published in 1957 (Lucas, D.R. and Newhouse, J. P. The toxic effect of sodium-L-glutamate on the inner layers of the retina. AMA Arch Ophthalmol 58: 193-201, 1957); and the first published report of brain lesions, obesity, and other disturbances in mice treated with monosodium glutamate was published in 1969 (Olney, J.W. Brain lesions, obesity, and other disturbances in mice treated with monosodium glutamate. Science. 164: 719-721, 1969).

 

Research over the course of the last four decades has undeniably demonstrated, using laboratory animals, that in addition to its role as a building block of protein, glutamic acid serves as a neurotransmitter vital to the transmission of nerve impulses in many parts of the central nervous system. It has also been undeniably demonstrated, using laboratory animals, that, under certain circumstances, glutamic acid, along with other acidic amino acids, functions as a neurotoxin, causing neuron degeneration and cell death which may be followed by neuroendocrine disorders.

 

Since man was created, he has eaten food in the form of protein. We understand a fair amount about human protein digestion and subsequent metabolism at the present time. As part of protein digestion, protein is broken down into its constituent amino acids, one of them being glutamic acid. In the human body, the ingested protein is broken down (hydrolyzed) in the stomach and lower intestines through the action of hydrochloric acid and enzymes--both of which are found naturally in the human body. In a healthy human, the body controls the amount of glutamic acid converted from protein in this way, and disposes of the "waste." Humans do not store excess glutamic acid as such.

 

While glutamic acid can be freed from or "broken out of" ingested protein that contains glutamic acid, glutamic acid can also be created from other amino acids derived from ingested protein. If an individual never ingested protein with glutamic acid in it, that individual could synthesize all the glutamic acid that is needed from other amino acids. The human brain is also capable of synthesizing glutamic acid according to its metabolic needs, from endogenous materials.

 

Ingestion of free amino acids is a relatively new phenomenon. In naturally occurring food substances, amino acids rarely are free. Rather, they are linked to other amino acids in peptides or proteins. The free amino acids that are available in the marketplace, either in bulk or in processed foods, are manufactured. Commercially manufactured glutamic acid is produced in food and chemical plants.

 

We know very little about the digestion and subsequent metabolism of free amino acids, including processed free glutamic acid (MSG). We do know that vitamins, minerals, sugars, and some amino acids can be assimilated without digestion. It is conceivable, therefore, that processed free glutamic acid (MSG) introduced as such into the body is not subject, at all, to the processes of digestion, including the processes of elimination of excesses of that which is ingested. To the extent that the process of digestion or absorption of free amino acids differs from the process of digestion of protein, we can only guess how free amino acids are metabolized by the body. Some persons have assumed that ingested free amino acids, including processed free glutamic acid (MSG) are digested and metabolized in a manner identical to the manner in which protein is digested and metabolized. The evidence which exists, suggests that this is not true.

 

There are a number of methods presently used for producing MSG. Commercially, each has its advantages and each has its drawbacks. But the MSG produced by every one of these methods can kill brain cells, cause neuroendocrine disorders, cause or exacerbate neurodegenerative disease, and cause adverse reactions in both animals and humans.

 

In its early editions of the Code of Federal Regulations, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) distinguishes between two classes of commercially manufactured glutamic acid when glutamic acid is to be used as a food additive (Code of Federal Regulations Food and Drugs 21: Parts 100-169, 1990; Code of Federal Regulations Food and Drugs 21: Parts 170-199, 1989).

 

Class I. Glutamic acid can be produced when a protein is broken down into its constituent amino acids. Glutamic acid can also be produced by bacteria that have the ability to synthesize and excrete glutamic acid outside of their cell membranes. In either case, when the glutamic acid is refined to approximately 99% glutamic acid, the FDA requires that the ingredient/product containing the 99% pure glutamic acid be identified on food labels as "monosodium glutamate."

Class II. When protein is broken down into its constituent amino acids, and refinement results in an ingredient/product that is less than 99% pure glutamic acid, the product is referred to as a "hydrolyzed protein product" (HPP). There are a myriad of HPP, each of which must be assigned its own unique "common or usual name." The HPP include (but are not limited to) products called "calcium caseinate," "sodium caseinate," "autolyzed yeast," "hydrolyzed protein," "hydrolyzed vegetable protein," "hydrolyzed animal protein," "yeast extract," and "textured vegetable protein." All of these invariably contain commercially manufactured glutamic acid (MSG). The only factor that distinguishes them from the ingredient called "monosodium glutamate" is that the per cent of glutamic acid in the HPP can not, by definition, exceed 98%. Depending on the starting material, the method of protein breakdown used, and the degree to which the HPP have been hydrolyzed, all HPP will contain a variety of free amino acids, possibly small peptides, and even some protein in addition to glutamic acid. All HPP, will also contain contaminants, just as all "monosodium glutamate," will contain contaminants.

 

Reaction flavors (also referred to as processed flavors)

MSG can also be produced by combining specific amino acids, reducing sugars, animal or vegetable fats or oils, and optional ingredients including hydrolyzed vegetable protein (Lin, L.J. Regulatory status of Maillard reaction flavors. Division of Food and Color Additives, Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, FDA. August 24, 1992; Food Chemical News. May 31, 1993, p 16). Strictly speaking, these products are not HPP, for there is more involved than simply breaking protein into its constituent amino acids and thereby releasing processed free glutamic acid (MSG). They are mentioned here primarily because the glutamate industry often uses them in ingredients labeled "flavor," or "flavoring," (often preceded by the word "natural") and uses these "reaction flavors" as "clean label" alternatives to "monosodium glutamate" and various HPP. "Clean label" ingredients are ingredients that consumers might not recognize as containing MSG.

 

Olney and others have demonstrated that HPP, like "monosodium glutamate" cause glutamic acid type hypothalamic lesions and neuroendocrine disorders. HPP contain not only processed free glutamic acid (MSG) but other amino acids, including aspartic acid and L-cysteine, which are known to exert the same or similar neurotoxic effects as glutamic acid. (Olney, J.W., Ho, O.L., and Rhee, V. Brain-damaging potential of protein hydrolysates. N Engl J Med 289: 391-393, 1973; Schainker, B., and Olney, J.W. Glutamate-type hypothalamic-pituitary syndrome in mice treated with aspartate or cysteate in infancy. J Neural Transmission 35: 207-215, 1974).

Humans who suffer adverse reactions to the ingestion of monosodium glutamate also suffer adverse reactions to ingestion of HPP (Schwartz, G. R. In Bad Taste: The MSG Syndrome Santa Fe: Health Press, 1988, pp 7-10). Similarly, they will suffer adverse reactions to ingestion of reaction flavors.

 

FDA regulations require that products that contain MSG in its "monosodium glutamate" form must be labeled with the words, "monosodium glutamate." Similarly, FDA regulations require that products that contain MSG in its HPP forms must be labeled with their individual unique "common or usual names." However, the FDA does not require, and has refused to require, that the MSG in products that contain any source of MSG be identified. The rationale given by the FDA for this refusal is that FDA code does not require that constituents of an ingredient be disclosed to the consumer. The MSG in hydrolyzed vegetable protein, autolyzed yeast, sodium caseinate, etc., is considered, by the FDA, to be a constituent, and therefore does not need to be disclosed. Thus, very often, nothing on the label of a product containing MSG reveals that the product contains MSG.

 

The FDA goes even farther in allowing MSG to be "hidden," even more surreptitiously, in food. When sugar is added to a spice package, the addition of the sugar must be disclosed. But when many MSG-containing ingredients are added to "flavor," "flavoring," "natural flavoring," "stock," or "broth," not even the "common or usual names" of those particular MSG-containing ingredients need to be disclosed.

 

Finally, the FDA allows the inclusion of MSG produced during product processing to be totally undisclosed. MSG can be produced during processing if protease enzymes in the presence of any form of protein are included in an ingredient/product. Under certain conditions, if a product contains protein, the addition of protease enzymes during processing will produce MSG in the end product of the food being packaged or manufactured.

 

It is extremely important to the glutamate industry that consumers should believe that processed free glutamic acid (MSG) is identical to the glutamic acid in intact protein and in higher organisms (like the human body).

 

The glutamate industry continues to deny that exposure to free glutamic acid found in processed food (MSG) causes adverse reactions including hives, asthma, seizures, and migraine headache; causes brain damage, learning disorders, and endocrine disturbances; and is relevant to diverse diseases of the central nervous system such as addiction, stroke, epilepsy, schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, and degenerative disorders such as ALS, Parkinson's disease, and Alzheimer's disease.

 

Central to their argument is the lie that the processed free glutamic acid used in processed food and in pesticide and fertilizer products is identical to the glutamic acid found in unprocessed, unadulterated food and in the human body. Central to the success of their argument is the fact that this glutamate industry lie has never been challenged by a legislator, agency of the US government, or the Courts. When sued by those who have legitimate claims for damages caused by MSG, perpetrators of the lie settle out of court and leave no public record. Legislators and the Courts defer to the FDA, Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), and the FDA, EPA, and USDA refuse to respond or simply lie.

 

Most of the glutamic acid with which consumers come in contact is found in protein where it is connected to (or bound to) other amino acids in long chains. There are two forms of glutamic acid found in nature: L-glutamic acid and D-glutamic acid. When glutamic acid is found in protein it is referred to as bound glutamic acid. The glutamic acid found in protein is L-glutamic acid, only.

 

 

Eating protein (which will contain bound glutamic acid that is L-glutamic acid, only) does not cause either brain damage or adverse reactions.

 

Glutamic acid outside of protein is referred to as free glutamic acid. Although they may turn out to be artifacts of measurement, at the present time, it would appear that there may be small amounts of free glutamic acid found in some food consumed by humans. That free glutamic acid would have been associated with unprocessed, unadulterated, and/or unfermented protein in the plants and animals (all higher organisms) used as human food. The glutamic acid found in higher organisms, but outside of protein, is always in the same form as the glutamic acid found in protein, i.e., it is L-glutamic acid, only.

 

The second form of glutamic acid, i.e., D-glutamic acid, is not found naturally in higher organisms. It is found naturally only in the cell walls of certain bacteria.

 

In the late 1800s and early 1900s, industrialists began to manufacture free glutamic acid. Manufactured/processed free glutamic acid (MSG) always contains D-glutamic acid, pyroglutamic acid, and various other contaminants in addition to L-glutamic acid. Manufactured/processed free glutamic acid (MSG) causes brain lesions and neuroendocrine disorders in laboratory animals. Manufactured/processed free glutamic acid (MSG) also causes adverse reactions which include skin rash, tachycardia, migraine headache, depression, and seizures in humans.

 

MSG-sensitive consumers generally refer to all forms of processed free glutamic acid as MSG. Consumers react to all processed free glutamic acid in the same way they react to the processed free glutamic acid in the flavor enhancer called "monosodium glutamate," provided, of course, that they ingest amounts of processed free glutamic acid (MSG) that exceed their tolerance levels for MSG.

 

The following pages should be sufficient to demonstrate that processed free glutamic acid used in processed food, drugs, cosmetics, personal care products, dietary supplements, and in pesticide and fertilizer products is not identical to the glutamic acid found in unprocessed, unadulterated food, and in the human body:

 

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/manufac.html

 

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/ge.html

 

http://www.just-food.com/article.aspx?art=21691&type=1

 

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/III.What%20is%20MSG.html

[Vegan Joe]

MSG’s EFFECT ON NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION

Paper presented at The Weston A. Price Annual Convention

San Francisco, California November 8, 2008

Jack L. Samuels, President, Truth in Labeling Campaign

 

 

 

 

In providing you with information on MSG’s effect on neurological function, I will provide you with some of the history regarding MSG, some of what is now known regarding its toxic potential, particularly as it affects behavior and neurological function. I will also provide you with some of the questionable practices of the glutamate industry in their efforts to demonstrate the safety of their product, and the efforts currently underway to replace some or all MSG with a product that may be equally dangerous.

 

The food industry would like us to believe that MSG is an abbreviation for the food ingredient “monosodium glutamate” and nothing more. That is not true.

 

“MSG,” as defined by many MSG-sensitive people, is any free glutamic acid that is present in a proteinaceous food or food ingredient due to a manufacturing process or due to any fermentation. We refer to such free glutamic acid as “processed free glutamic acid (MSG),” and the FDA, in their August 31, 1995 publication, the Backgrounder, a publication that is still in use, supports our definition. In the balance of this presentation, any reference to MSG will mean processed free glutamic acid. It is found in the food ingredient “monosodium glutamate” and in other ingredients such as “yeast extract,” whose names give no clue to its presence.

 

There is a difference between processed free glutamic acid and free glutamic acid found in unprocessed and unfermented foods. There are by-products that scientists refer to as contaminants that are found in processed and/or fermented foods that contain processed free glutamic acid. These contaminants are not found in unprocessed, unfermented foods.

 

There is research that explains how the body handles truly natural free glutamic acid (L-glutamic acid), but little reported on contaminants, and nothing reported on processed free glutamic acid. It is known from research that it is L-glutamic acid that enhances the flavor of soups and fermented foods. It is also well known that people vary greatly in their tolerances for MSG, explaining why some MSG-sensitive people will react to some foods with MSG and not to others. An example would be a homemade soup cooked for three hours as compared to a soup cooked for 90 minutes.

 

Based on interaction with countless MSG-sensitive people, we know that adverse reactions only occur from foods that contain the contaminants mentioned above, providing that an individual exceeds his or her individual tolerance for MSG. In addition to processing and fermentation, some lengthy cooking processes, such as the making of soups and stews, and the use of crock pots, can break down protein and produce MSG (glutamic acid and contaminants). Also, the high heat used in the ultra-pasteurization of some dairy products is problematic for some MSG-sensitive people.

 

Consequently, MSG-sensitive people may react to soups, stews or crock pot preparations that contain amounts of MSG that exceed their tolerances for the substance. They have to rely heavily on foods that are solely made by nature, and, for example, should have no problem with raw milk. An individual with little tolerance for MSG may have to rely on healthy foods and avoid vitamins. Most, if not all vitamins are made from vegetables, and in the production of the vitamins care is not taken to remove all protein. The remaining protein is broken down, at least in part, during production, resulting in some small amounts of MSG, enough to affect the individual with little tolerance for MSG.

 

I shall begin this presentation with a number of points that are intended to provide you with some key points in the history of MSG, and the actions that the glutamate industry has taken to continue their source of income from MSG, a known neurotoxin. I have also included their efforts to market a new potentially toxic ingredient.

 

The MSG story began in 1908 when Kikunae Ikeda, Ph.D. discovered that it was glutamic acid in seaweed that was being used by Asians to enhance the flavor in recipes. In 1909, he patented the sodium salt of glutamic acid, monosodium glutamate, in England.,

 

In 1909, Dr. Ikeda joined with a friend, Dr. Suzuki, to form Ajinomoto Co., Inc. (Ajinomoto) in Japan.2,3 It is reported that production of monosodium glutamate began in 1910. Today, Ajinomoto is recognized as the world’s largest producer of monosodium glutamate.

 

In 1948, the Chief Quartermaster of the Armed Forces presided over a meeting in Chicago, attended by representatives of many food industry giants who came to learn about an apparent wonder substance that improved the taste of Japanese army rations.2,

 

In 1956, Ajinomoto changed its method of producing monosodium glutamate in order to increase production and lower production costs.

 

In 1968, Ho Man Kwok, M.D., a pediatrician who immigrated to the United States from China, reported reactions when dining in certain Chinese restaurants. His Letter to the Editor was published in The New England Journal of Medicine under the caption “Chinese Restaurant Syndrome.”

 

In 1969, John W. Olney, M.D. published a study in which he found that monosodium glutamate, given to mice, resulted in obesity and other neuroendocrine disorders due to lesions in the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus.

 

In 1969, the Ajinomoto-supported International Glutamate Technical Committee (IGTC) was incorporated as a nonprofit agency to lobby our government and health agencies on the safety of MSG, and to develop studies that would be supportive of their position.

 

In 1972, it was reported that 25% of the population experienced adverse reactions from monosodium glutamate, based on the amount then used in food in the United States. A 1975 study found the adverse reactions to occur in 30% of the population.

In 1977, The Glutamate Association (TGA) was formed as a subsidiary of the IGTC with the apparent purpose of acting as a public relations arm of the IGTC. Similar subsidiaries have been formed in other countries over the years. Many of the functions of TGA are now handled by the International Food Information Council (IFIC), a seemingly independent organization used by the glutamate industry to do much of their public relations work.

 

In 1990, following the time that it became obvious that glutamate plays a role in many diseases, the National Institutes of Health held an international seminar in Bethesda, Maryland entitled The Glutamate Cascade: Common Pathways of Central Nervous System Disease States. The seminar appeared to be directed to encourage the development of glutamate blocking drugs.

 

In 1998, Senomyx, Inc. (Senomyx), located in San Diego, CA, was incorporated in Delaware. The company’s goal was to develop a flavor enhancing MSG substitute, a sugar substitute, and a salt substitute. The MSG substitute is now on the market.

 

In 2006, worldwide consumption of monosodium glutamate was almost 4.4 million pounds, valued at 2.3 billion dollars. These figures do not include the MSG found in ingredients other than monosodium glutamate.

 

In 2007, Senomyx announced that Ajinomoto was awarded marketing rights for their MSG replacement product in the United States and some other countries. Europe and other countries are represented by Nestle.

 

The glutamate and food industries would like you to believe that adverse reactions from MSG are due to an allergy. That is not true. At one time the glutamate organizations advised people with adverse reactions to see an allergist, apparently realizing that traditional allergy tests would not find an allergy to MSG since the reactions are due to a sensitivity to MSG.

 

Allergies and sensitivities are different., Reactions to MSG are, with possible rare exception, due to a sensitivity to a substance that is toxic to one’s body. The intolerance for MSG is not an allergy, i.e., it is not IgE mediated. There are no antibodies involved with MSG intolerance.

 

One has to merely review the literature to be convinced that MSG is toxic. There is a large body of research that concludes that MSG is neurotoxic. How does it work in the body and what causes the adverse reactions that are being experienced by a very high percentage of our population? Why is it that the causes of many of the diseases believed to be associated with its use are unclear?

 

Although neuroscientists have seen the effects of monosodium glutamate and glutamic acid on the brains of animals, the fact is that they have not determined the mechanism or mechanisms that cause people to experience adverse reactions from MSG. Yet, neuroscience has come a long way, continuing to find new information that may answer that question in the relatively near future. In the meantime, ongoing science is providing a clearer picture of the dangers of MSG.

 

Not many years ago, I would have stood before you and only explained that when you ingest MSG, some of the glutamic acid enters your blood supply directly from your mouths, and that some could affect the brain. It had been found that the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus could be affected, resulting in brain lesions that resulted in obesity and neuroendcrine disorders. Although this is all still true, scientists have found additional information relating to the body’s handling of glutamic acid.

 

It was known early on that the glutamic acid molecule, as well as the 19 other most commonly referred to amino acids, are small,12, and that NMDA (N-methyl-D-aspartate) receptors to which the excitatory neurotransmitter, glutamic acid, binds, are found in the brain.

 

As previously noted, in 1969, John W. Olney, M.D., found that monosodium glutamate caused lesions in the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus, resulting in obesity and other neuroendocrine disorders.7 Through the years, he conducted many studies on the effects of monosodium glutamate. His studies indicated that the very young were most at risk because the blood brain barrier, a barrier that separates blood from brain tissue, was not always fully developed in the young. Dr. Olney also found that the elderly were at high risk from monosodium glutamate because of the fact that aging, and certain diseases, (such as, but not limited to, diabetes and hypertension), and neurologic events, such as stroke, could compromise the blood brain barrier. Dr. Olney’s findings were confirmed through the years by countless neuroscientists. His early findings led to a congressional hearing in 1970, leading to the voluntary removal of monosodium glutamate from baby food by producers of these products. (The fact is, baby food producers replaced monosodium glutamate with MSG-containing hydrolyzed vegetable protein, but that was also removed in 1978.)

 

In brief, the cause of MSG-induced lesions, (the death of neurons), is that ingestion of MSG results in an excess of calcium entering calcium channels, affecting the neurons. Although research on the subject continues, it appears clear that there is a relationship between calcium overload and neurotoxicity.,, (It should be noted that this does not relate to whether or not you use dairy or calcium products.)

 

The glutamate industry contended for years that Olney’s findings were wrong because the blood brain barrier protected brain neurons from monosodium glutamate. This is totally incorrect because neuroscientists have confirmed that the blood brain barrier is subject to damage from aging, injury, disease, and more, and is “leaky” at best throughout life., It is inconceivable to me that dietary supplements can override any, or all, of these reasons for exposure of the brain.

 

We have often been told that the blood brain barrier is fully formed at about 2 days after birth. Discussion with researchers has indicated that the time of full development of the blood brain barrier may occur at varying times in infants. The subject of delayed development of the blood brain barrier is of special interest to the Truth in Labeling Campaign in that we have had contact with a number of parents of children with seizures who have been found to be acutely sensitive to MSG. However, according to their parents, their children’s sensitivities lessened once they went through puberty. This leads us to believe that full development of the blood brain barrier in some children may be delayed up to puberty.

 

Through the years, it has also been found that glutamic acid could pass through the placental barrier,, with the possible consequence of a fetus being affected from MSG.

 

In 1996, it was found by Said et al. that NMDA receptors were not limited to the central nervous system. He identified NMDA receptors in the lung. Now it is also known that there are three major types of glutamate receptors throughout the body, and that although the NMDA receptors may be of most importance, there are also kainate receptors and AMPA receptors to which glutamic acid binds.

 

Although we have, for years, believed that monosodium glutamate and glutamic acid were affecting the central nervous system, identified as the brain and spinal cord, neuroscience has developed to the point of recognizing that there is also a peripheral nervous system where glutamic acid plays a role. Work on this subject is ongoing. It is becoming increasingly clear that MSG reactions may be related to neurological function throughout the body.

 

Why are people reacting to MSG? As stated earlier, neuroscientists have not found the reason for MSG-induced adverse reactions. There are, however, a number of theories that have been offered.

 

We have often read that an excess of glutamate will affect the balance of glutamate in the body and that the imbalance will result in adverse reactions. We find no research to support this theory.

 

We also hear from the FDA and the food industry that no one will react to less than three grams of MSG. Yet, I, and many other people with whom I have communicated, have reacted to almost unmeasurably small amounts of MSG. A high percentage of MSG-sensitive people will react to Accent, a brand of pure monosodium glutamate, and to canned soups. The amount of MSG per serving of Accent is one half gram, and the commercial soups we have had tested had in the area of three quarters of a gram of MSG. We have found no products on grocers’ shelves that have as much as three grams of MSG per serving.

 

The fact is that everyone is different. People with allergies and/or sensitivities vary in their tolerances for offending substances. It is understandable that some will react to minute amounts.

 

The Expert Committee of the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) released an FDA funded study dated July, 1995 in which they stated that they found “scientifically verifiable evidence” that plus or minus 3 grams of MSG in the absence of food was needed to cause an MSG reaction. This conclusion was based on a study that used 3 grams of MSG.25 The fact is that the FASEB study did not reference any study that attempted to determine the lowest level of MSG that would cause an adverse reaction. To our knowledge, there is no such study in the literature, and, again, we know of no processed food on grocers’ shelves that has as much as 3 grams of MSG per serving.

 

FASEB reached no conclusion relating to the cause of MSG reactions.

 

Although it is likely that there is more than one cause for MSG reactions, some people contend that an MSG sensitivity is due to a deficiency of vitamin B in the body. That theory may be good for the supplement industry, but there is no basis for that claim in the literature, and I know of no MSG-sensitive person who has resolved their MSG sensitivity by supplementing vitamin B. Some people, including two physicians I know, tried to take high levels of vitamin B for a period of time, and had no relief from their MSG sensitivities.

 

Another theory is that MSG affects the vagus nerve, a cranial nerve that has the most extensive distribution of the cranial nerves, affecting many body functions.

 

The Truth in Labeling Campaign has interacted with countless MSG-sensitive people over the years. It has been noted that MSG-sensitive people only react to free glutamic acid that has been freed from protein through a manufacturing process or through fermentation, providing that the amount of free glutamic acid exceeds their tolerances for MSG. Realizing that the glutamic acid in higher organisms is L-glutamic acid, and that any L-glutamic acid freed from protein through a manufacturing process or through fermentation will be accompanied by unwanted by-products, called contaminants, we theorize that it is one or more of the contaminants produced in the freeing of glutamic acid from protein prior to digestion that may be causing the adverse reactions that people experience. Further discussion of this subject will be found at www.truthinlabeling.org/manufac.html.

 

Now, another theory as to why people experience MSG reactions has come to light. As explained above, we now know that there are glutamate receptors throughout the body. We also now know through the work of Purcell et al. regarding autism, that some people may have defects in the AMPA-type glutamate receptors. It may be possible that a defect in a glutamate receptor, or in the glutamate transport system, is responsible for adverse reactions.

 

Regardless of the mechanism or mechanisms that result in adverse reactions from MSG, it is evident from the countless reports received by the Truth in Labeling Campaign since 1994, that people who experience adverse reactions from MSG have varying reactions, but typically the same reaction each time they react. It is as if MSG finds the weak link in one’s body.

 

It appears that once people experience an adverse reaction from MSG, they are MSG-sensitive from that point forward. Furthermore, it appears that once people become MSG-sensitive, their tolerance for MSG becomes less and less over time. It is almost as if overexposure to MSG destroys some protective mechanism in the body. Clearly, as the level of MSG increases in our food supply, more and more people are becoming MSG sensitive.

 

Any of the literature that we have found that contends that MSG is safe has been produced by the glutamate industry or their agents. We can defend our position that all of these studies are flawed to the point of being worthless. Also, we have written proof in our files that most of the double-blind studies utilized aspartame in placebos. Aspartame is a sweetener that will duplicate the reactions from MSG in most people, providing that they ingest amounts that exceed their tolerances for MSG and/or aspartame. About 40% of aspartame is aspartic acid. Neuroscientists have found, in animal studies, that aspartic acid and glutamic acid act in the same manner in the brain, and will act in an additive fashion. Based on our interaction with MSG/aspartame sensitive people over the past 18 years, those who react to MSG typically react similarly to aspartame and aspartame sensitive people typically react similarly to MSG.

 

The most recent glutamate industry study on monosodium glutamate found no difference between reactions of subjects fed monosodium glutamate and subjects fed something called a placebo. Initially the study used aspartame in placebos, but presumably the placebos were modified after disclosure of that fact. It wasn’t that no one reacted to the monosodium glutamate in the modified placebo study. It was because there were as many reactions to the placebo as there were to the monosodium glutamate that the study authors concluded that monosodium glutamate is safe. The modified placebo described in the research report contained hidden MSG. The FDA, didn’t seem to be concerned and continues to rely on such studies as proof that MSG is safe.

 

There are numerous scientific studies that link MSG to some very serious and debilitating medical conditions. One has only to review studies involving monosodium glutamate or glutamic acid, and you will be shocked to see the number of medical conditions linked to this neurotoxin. You will also be disappointed in our federal agencies such as the FDA, USDA, EPA and CDC for their lack of action on the MSG issue.

 

Today, it is easy to access such studies at MEDLINE, a comprehensive source of life sciences and biomedical bibliographic information, with nearly eleven million records. It is available through the National Library of Medicine at www.pubmed.gov.

 

I could list evidence of the many medical conditions associated with glutamic acid, but for purposes of this paper, I shall only give you some idea of its effect on the health of our nation. Glutamic acid is associated with the recent increases in neurodegenerative disease. It has been linked to Alzheimer’s Disease, Parkinson’s Disease, Amyotrophic Lateral Scerosis (ALS), Multiple Sclerosis, and Huntington’s Disease. Research links MSG to migraine headaches, heart irregularities, seizures, asthma, sudden death of young athletes, ADD, ADHD, and more. There appears to be no question that MSG is the main contributor to the obesity epidemic, primarily due to the brain damage that MSG causes, and there is growing evidence that it is the probable cause for the diabetes epidemic, and the high incidence of autism. A recent study by He et al. also confirms that daily use of MSG will lead to weight gain.

 

MSG, in my opinion, is the cause of the epidemic of irritable bowel syndrome, and before long, will be shown to be directly related to neurodegenerative diseases.

 

When asked to present this paper, I was asked about the effect of MSG on psychiatric conditions. One does not typically think of MSG as a trigger for psychiatric conditions. However, there is a clear link of glutamic acid to Schizophrenia, leading to the present development of a glutamate blocker for treatment of Schizophrenia.

 

One has to merely go back to a 1978 Letter to the Editor of the New England Journal of Medicine from Arthur D. Colman, M.D., a psychiatrist, to read of a reported psychiatric link to MSG ingestion. He reported that his wife “...became profoundly depressed, with drawn facies [appearence], motor slowing, doubt-ridden, gloomy fantasies, and occasional unprecipitated outbursts of rage” lasting for about two weeks following ingestion of MSG. He also noted acute MSG reactions in his nine year old son.

 

H. J. Roberts, M.D., author of many books on the dangers of aspartame, has stated that he analyzed 1,200 people that he treated for aspartame intolerance. He found the following:

 

 

 

Severe depression-------------------23%

Severe anxiety-----------------------17%

Extreme irritability-------------------16%

Marked personality change----------14%

Recent severe insomnia--------------14%

Severe aggravation of phobias------- 6%

Unclassified--------------------------10%

 

Dr. Roberts also claimed that some of his patients exhibited Bipolar Disorder.

 

The Truth in Labeling Campaign has not kept statistics, but has received reports of similar reactions from MSG.

 

In an August 22, 2007 Press Release from the National Institutes of Mental Health, it was announced that the first study, conducted at Duke University, had been published “...directly linking OCD [Obsessive Compulsive Disorder]-like behaviors to abnormalities in the glutamate system in a specific brain circuit.”

 

Earlier this year, Newsweek published an article entitled “What Addicts Need” by Raina Kelley. This article regarding addictions, reported on two drugs, Camparal and Vivitrol that are now being used for the treatment of alcholism. Based on a discussion I had with a representative of the producer of Campral and the Web site of Vivitrol, these are glutamate blocking drugs that have had some success with the treatment of alcoholism. According to the individual I spoke with regarding Campral, chronic use of alcohol results in increased levels of glutamic acid in a portion of the brain due to an effect on glutamate receptors, excesses that are relieved through the use of their drug.

 

We have found that almost all MSG-sensitive people report a mood change from MSG. We have listed anxiety attacks, as reported by Dr. Roberts, as “anxiety and panic attacks.” We are convinced that MSG disrupts sleep, and that many people experience severe exhaustion after ingesting MSG, a condition that is often misdiagnosed by some physicians as depression. We also receive reports of depression and rage.

 

There are additional reports of relatively common MSG-induced reactions reported to the Truth in Labeling Campaign that have led to a referral to a neurologist or psychiatrist. These include memory problems, disorientation, loss of balance, lethargy, slurred speech, chronic fatigue syndrome, irritable bowel syndrome, and learning disorders.

 

It is also clear from media reports, studies by researchers, and reports of governmental agencies, that the incidence of many of the above listed conditions are increasing dramatically in our country.

 

It is of interest that pharmaceutical companies are actively developing glutamate blocking drugs. At present, there is a glutamate blocking drug, Namenda, that is actively being used to treat moderate to severe cases of Alzheimer’s Disease. There is another glutamate blocking drug, Rilouzole (Rilutek), that is being used for ALS and Huntington’s Disease; and a glutamate blocking drug will be introduced in the relatively near future for treatment of Schizophrenia.

 

It makes no sense at all that while the FDA is approving glutamate blocking drugs in one department of the agency, The FDA Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition is busy approving food ingredients that contain MSG, and disregarding the mislabeling of MSG on many products.

 

I suggest that you should make every effort to avoid MSG and aspartame, especially if you are pregnant. It should be noted that even FASEB, in an FDA funded study dated July, 1992, entitled Safety of Amino Acids Used as Dietary Supplements stated that it would be prudent to avoid free glutamic acid in supplements for infants, children, pregnant women, women of child bearing age, and people with mood disorders. Although it is getting increasingly difficult to avoid MSG, it is still possible, but you will have to avoid almost all processed foods. A list of the most common sources of MSG in processed foods will be found at www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html. People with little tolerance for MSG should also refer to www.truthinlabeling.org/addendum.html.

 

Without question, MSG is causing a number of health problems in our country, and throughout the world. Because of the effects of MSG and the related costs, our government will eventually be forced to take action on the MSG issue. When this happens, even we who are familiar with the toxicity of MSG will be surprised to learn the extent of the health problems caused by MSG. The only question that remains is when will our government wake up and take action on the MSG issue. Lack of action is not an option. As Dr. Oz stated on the July 9, 2008 Oprah show: The next generation will have a lower life expectancy than that of their parents.

 

The fact that Ajinomoto, the worlds largest producer of monosodium glutamate, has contracted to market the MSG-substitute, Senomyx, in the USA and some other countries leads me to believe that they know the time is coming when their product will be banned, and controls placed on the use of hidden sources of MSG.

 

Unfortunately, Senomyx, the MSG replacement product, produced in a laboratory, appears to work in the body in the same way as does MSG, and it will be hidden in food under the label descriptor “artificial flavor” or “artificial flavoring.” From my point of view, it has not been properly tested, and its use further indicates the weakness of our food regulatory agency, the FDA. Even though it is a chemical preparation, it will be used in food unchallenged by the FDA. Yet, if it were designated as a pharmaceutical, it would have taken up to 10 years or more to be approved, at a cost of over 100 million dollars.

 

The presence of MSG in processed foods must be disclosed on product labels.

 

Since one cannot expect to get the truth about food ingredients from food companies and the FDA, it is imperative that the FDA require that all processed foods, when introduced and/or when a recipe for an existing product is changed, be analyzed for free glutamic acid, post production. If free glutamic acid is found to be present in a processed product, the amount of free glutamic acid should be disclosed on the food label as “MSG,” with the amount present stated in milligrams.

 

In the meantime, you can help to resolve the MSG issue by spreading the word of the toxicity of MSG and by writing your congressperson and senators in Washington to insist that something be done to fully disclose all free glutamic acid on the labels of all processed foods. It makes no sense at all that people are taking glutamate blocking drugs for the treatment of certain neurodegenerative diseases and addictions, and soon will be taking such drugs for Schizophrenia, when the Food and Drug Adminstration refuses to require the disclosure of free glutamic acid in processed foods.

 

Before closing, I would like to briefly cover one additional subject.

 

Many of you will have noted that I indicated a concern regarding fermented products, recognizing that many fermented products are recommended by The Weston A. Price Foundation. I should also state that the current most common method of making the food ingredient “monosodium glutamate” is described as bacterial fermentation.

 

When a food that contains protein is fermented prior to ingestion, the protein is broken down, at least in part, into its constituent amino acids and other nutrients. Therefore, the amino acids and nutrients are more quickly available to the body than if the food had to be digested or broken down in the body. The extent of the breakdown is dependent on the extent of the fermentation and the protein being fermented. The amino acids will invariably be accompanied by contaminants, some of which may be toxic to the body. In almost all cases, free glutamic acid will be the most prevalent amino acid that is freed.

 

I am exquisitely sensitive to MSG, with virtually no tolerance for it in any amount, and cannot tolerate any fermented foods. When younger, I did eat fermented products. However, for some reason, I developed a serious intolerance for MSG in its many forms, and could no longer tolerate any fermented foods. As discussed in this paper, maybe the overexposure of MSG and other toxins to my system damaged some important part of my system that should allow me to handle fermented foods.

 

The fact that The Weston A. Price Foundation invited me to speak, knowing my position on fermented foods, speaks to the integrity of your organization and the organization’s interest and desire in sharing with you all views regarding the food we eat. I greatly appreciate this openness.

 

Good health.

[Vegan Joe]

Am I alone here reading this thread and having some regrets eating these or similar items? but still finds them tempting on a busy day such as a road trip?

 

http://calorielab.com/restaurants/tacotime/crisp-bean-burrito/168/12862

 

(I'm wondering if they use the same grease fryer for these as the crisp meat burritos)

 

http://calorielab.com/restaurants/burger-king/bk-veggie-burger-w-cheese/3/2358

(without cheese or mayonaise)

 

http://goinside.com/99/1/mcveggie.html

 

http://www.vegparadise.com/news30.html

why not start a new thread???

[tuc]

MSG’s EFFECT ON NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION

Paper presented at The Weston A. Price Annual Convention

San Francisco, California November 8, 2008

Jack L. Samuels, President, Truth in Labeling Campaign

 

[snap]

This thing goes horribly wrong at the point I bolded for ya. Don't trust ANYTHING Weston A. Price foundation tells you. It has published so much bullshit it hurts to even think about it.

 

For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation

 

Their viewpoint against soy is ridiculous, unscientific garbage which is based on scaremongering to drive their interests. I seriously think they are the more evil than the tobacco companies.

[Vegan Joe]

MSG’s EFFECT ON NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION

Paper presented at The Weston A. Price Annual Convention

San Francisco, California November 8, 2008

Jack L. Samuels, President, Truth in Labeling Campaign

 

[snap]

This thing goes horribly wrong at the point I bolded for ya. Don't trust ANYTHING Weston A. Price foundation tells you. It has published so much bullshit it hurts to even think about it.

 

For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation

 

Their viewpoint against soy is ridiculous, unscientific garbage which is based on scaremongering to drive their interests. I seriously think they are the more evil than the tobacco companies.

The fact that The Weston A. Price Foundation invited me to speak, knowing my position on fermented foods, speaks to the integrity of your organization and the organization’s interest and desire in sharing with you all views regarding the food we eat. I greatly appreciate this openness.

I'm not sure what his affiliation is.

[DaN]

I think Vegan Joes posts in this thread, are the most detailed & extensive posts on one subject to have ever been posted here on vbbf.I dont remember using my rollerball on my mouse for such a long time while on here....

 

Is there anything else to be said about MSG's - I wouldnt have thought so!

 

 

The lesson I take from this thread is to avoid processed foods (and therefore isolated added MSG's) for a healthier happier life.

[tuc]

I think Vegan Joes posts in this thread, are the most detailed & extensive posts on one subject to have ever been posted here on vbbf.I dont remember using my rollerball on my mouse for such a long time while on here....

 

Is there anything else to be said about MSG's - I wouldnt have thought so!

 

 

The lesson I take from this thread is to avoid processed foods (and therefore isolated added MSG's) for a healthier happier life.

Length does not mean high quality. There are loads of utter bs in that text.

 

Ingestion of free amino acids is a relatively new phenomenon. In naturally occurring food substances, amino acids rarely are free. Rather, they are linked to other amino acids in peptides or proteins. The free amino acids that are available in the marketplace, either in bulk or in processed foods, are manufactured. Commercially manufactured glutamic acid is produced in food and chemical plants.

 

This is true for most amino acids. However, glutamate is just the one that you can find in many foods free. Check here: http://www.msgmyth.com/discus/messages/7/698.html?1152312568

 

Here's the list, in mg/100 g

the first number is bound, the second free:

 

Cow’s milk 819 2

Human milk 229 22

Parmesan cheese 9847 1200

Eggs 1583 23

Chicken 3309 44

Duck 3636 69

Beef 2846 33

Pork 2325 23

Cod 2101 9

Mackerel 2382 36

Salmon 2216 20

Peas 5583 200

Corn 1765 130

Beets 256 30

Carrots 218 33

Onions 208 18

Spinach 289 39

Tomatoes 238 140

Green peppers 120 32

 

People haven't been eating tomatoes for long? OH COME ON FFS!!! If you eat 200g (7 oz) of tomatoes per day you'll get the amount of free glutamate ppl in China add to their food as MSG. And it's virtually the same thing.

[DaN]

Length does not mean high quality. There are loads of utter bs in that text

 

Tuc, my post was meant in a sarcastic, jokey kind of way I am not suggesting that VeganJoes post was accurate - I didnt even read alot of it.It was a joke!

 

Check here: http://www.msgmyth.com/discus/messages/ ... 1152312568

 

Here's the list, in mg/100 g

the first number is bound, the second free:

 

Dude you are quoting figures from a website called http://www.msgmyth.com!

 

They might be a bit biased - dont you think? How well researched & accurate are their figures? What studies are they based on? Are they even a reputable organisation of any sort?

[xjohanx]

People haven't been eating tomatoes for long? OH COME ON FFS!!! If you eat 200g (7 oz) of tomatoes per day you'll get the amount of free glutamate ppl in China add to their food as MSG. And it's virtually the same thing.

 

Tuc you have to learn the difference between glutamic acid and MSG. Saying they are the same thing is like saying chloroform and methane are one substance.

[medman]

Tuc you have to learn the difference between glutamic acid and MSG. Saying they are the same thing is like saying chloroform and methane are one substance.

 

I'll just jump in here to say that glutamic acid and glutamate are both naturally found in your body. The only difference between glutamic acid and glutamate is one hydrogen (or a positive charge, however you want to look at it), and the two forms exist in the body, with pH being a main factor in determining the balance between them. The difference between MSG and glutamate? None; the sodium is only necessary in order to precipitate it in crystal form (so that you can sell/use it as a powder), and in the body, the sodium become dissociated from the glutamate, and is no different that the sodium you'd get from table salt. So Tuc is actually right; in biochemistry, saying "glutamic acid" or "glutamate" makes no difference, because as soon as you put one of them into the body, it will establish an equilibrium between the two forms (because your pH is buffered).

 

Glutamate is used in the body as a neurotransmitter (in fact, it's the most abundant excitatory neurotransmitter in the nervous system). Your body normally has something known as the blood-brain barrier; things in your blood don't make contact with the brain without being filtered through various special cell types. If you have an MSG sensitivity, the extra glutamate is basically getting to where it shouldn't; in people who do not experience MSG sensitivity, this is not an issue.

 

Now, I'm not saying that MSG is harmful, nor that it is harmless - just trying to point out that it is not synthetic. Then again, neither is sodium chloride - something found in great abundance in the body. Taking in large amounts of it is, of course, harmful, as it contributes to high blood pressure and things like that. So just because something is found in the body, doesn't mean that eating it is harmless. But MSG shouldn't be viewed as something foreign to the body, either.

 

There's a lot of bogus science out there on the subject. My position is that I won't intentionally be dousing all my food in it, but I won't be terrified of coming across it in my food, either.

[Im Your Man]

People haven't been eating tomatoes for long? OH COME ON FFS!!! If you eat 200g (7 oz) of tomatoes per day you'll get the amount of free glutamate ppl in China add to their food as MSG. And it's virtually the same thing.

I don't remember eating a tomatoe which tasted like mock octopus or chow mein

[hilary wright]

Medman, it's great to see you back on the board!