Coffee and fat connection

[Theresaann]

I just want to share that after reading Brendan's book The Thrive Diet, I really understood that whatever raises cortisol will increase fat storage. But that knowledge wasn't enough to make me quit drinking coffee, which TOTALLY raises cortisol levels.

 

Then I had to take a homeopathic remedy for an emotional issue, which I was VERY committed to healing, and the naturopath said "NO COFFEE FOR 8 WEEKS!!" cause it would interfere. So, feel insecure or give up coffee for 8 weeks-no contest.

 

I have to share that I have had a boost in fat loss from quitting coffee, without changing my diet or workouts. That means that its totally true that coffee promotes fat gain, especially in the abdominal/thoracic region (you know, that lovely "back fat") Anyway, its true and it works if you quit!

 

I figure that if I can quit for 8 weeks I can quit forever. Just want to share cause I know coffee is a huge addiction in this country.

 

I DO have a large cup of green tea in the morning now but this doesn't effect me in anyway like coffee did.

[threeloaves]

Really? Im not buyin' into this one.

[damdaman]

Really? Im not buyin' into this one.

 

Well, it's a pretty easy theory to verify. It's a fairly well established fact that chronic high cortisol levels can lead to abdominal-area weight gain, as cortisol is linked to your insulin levels. When cortisol is high, so is insulin, thus your blood glucose management system can be thrown out of whack. Insulin's job is to lower the blood glucose level by turning that glucose into fat. Increased cortisol = increased insulin = increased fat.

 

It's also fairly easy to verify that caffeine stimulates the adrenal glands, which are responsible for producing cortisol. Thus, it's not a stretch at all to find that someone can lose weight by cutting back significantly on their caffeine.

 

While coffee is extremely delicious (and I drink it a few days per week, substituting yerba mate tea on days that I train hard), it is definitely not good for you, and this is just one example as to why.

[threeloaves]

Informative. I'll have to research this.

[vivalasvegans]

It's not logical though that the caffeine in coffee stimulates cortisol which in turn stimulates fat gain - while the caffeine in green tea does not.

 

If it's a matter of strong coffee containing more caffeine than brewed green tea, we also have to take into consideration that more caffeine has the effect of decreasing appetite more, thereby leading to less eating overall, thereby leading to less fat production/growth/gain and possibly even fat loss.

 

I would like to see the science behind this claim.

 

I would also like a triple soy mocha latte with sprinkles, heavy on the foam.

[Chaohinon]

It's not logical though that the caffeine in coffee stimulates cortisol which in turn stimulates fat gain - while the caffeine in green tea does not.

 

If it's a matter of strong coffee containing more caffeine than brewed green tea, we also have to take into consideration that more caffeine has the effect of decreasing appetite more, thereby leading to less eating overall, thereby leading to less fat production/growth/gain and possibly even fat loss.

 

I would like to see the science behind this claim.

 

I would also like a triple soy mocha latte with sprinkles, heavy on the foam.

Supposedly it raises your cortisol levels for up to 12-14 hours. That's a lot of stress on the body. Granted, it's probably not difficult to stay healthy as a regular coffee drinker, but it's still kind of counter intuitive to the whole low-stress, high net-gain eating.

[damdaman]

It's not logical though that the caffeine in coffee stimulates cortisol which in turn stimulates fat gain - while the caffeine in green tea does not.

 

If it's a matter of strong coffee containing more caffeine than brewed green tea, we also have to take into consideration that more caffeine has the effect of decreasing appetite more, thereby leading to less eating overall, thereby leading to less fat production/growth/gain and possibly even fat loss.

 

Yes, it's a matter of coffee containing *much* more caffeine than green tea.

 

Decreasing appetite by fueling yourself with stimulants like strong coffee so you eat less and lose weight is extraordinarily unhealthy. It's what happens to speed addicts.

 

Cutting back the caffeine and eating more nourishing foods is a healthy way to lose weight - your nourish your body while losing weight rather than putting it through extreme stress and starving it.

[Marcina]

I quit drinking coffee last year. I didn't really notice whether or not I lost more belly fat though. I didn't really have much to begin with.

[Guest]

But doesn't coffee and/or tea have health benefits also? There's plenty of very positive info about green tea around the net. I've read that tea speeds up metabolism a bit, so maybe it isn't such a bad thing fat loss-wise? Also, what about cocoa - does it have any negative effects (eg. promote fat-storage)? I know that these are basically minute details and focusing on healthy - "clean" - diet, exercise and rest is all you need (for most people anyway), but it's still interesting.

[Theresaann]

OMG, there is TONS of research on this. Coffee is very bad for people, some more than others.

 

It totally tanks out the adrenals, causes an "acid wash" through the bones as it leeches calcium and other alkaline minerals to buffer the extremely high acid that it contains (NOT from caffiene, but from the rancid, roasted oils in the bean), it torpedo's insulin and then causes a massive drop, actually INCREASING appetite much like a sugar rush, distrupts the body's ability to get into the restorative deeper states of sleep, not to mention the stress effects of very high cortisol release that it causes.

 

I am more sensitive to all of this than some. Even one cup in the morning for me interrupts my sleep. I am sleeping MUCH deeper and without waking now, which is balancing to the endocrine system, restorative to the adrenals, results in better recovery from exercise and therefore, greater fat loss and increase in lean muscle.

 

Check out Brendens' book on this. Very informative.

 

People will always defend their addictions, but the facts are the facts. I just couldn't deny it anymore for myself and I feel SOOO much better....for sure.

[Guest]

OMG, there is TONS of research on this. Coffee is very bad for people, some more than others.

 

It totally tanks out the adrenals, causes an "acid wash" through the bones as it leeches calcium and other alkaline minerals to buffer the extremely high acid that it contains (NOT from caffiene, but from the rancid, roasted oils in the bean), it torpedo's insulin and then causes a massive drop, actually INCREASING appetite much like a sugar rush, distrupts the body's ability to get into the restorative deeper states of sleep, not to mention the stress effects of very high cortisol release that it causes.

 

I am more sensitive to all of this than some. Even one cup in the morning for me interrupts my sleep. I am sleeping MUCH deeper and without waking now, which is balancing to the endocrine system, restorative to the adrenals, results in better recovery from exercise and therefore, greater fat loss and increase in lean muscle.

 

Check out Brendens' book on this. Very informative.

 

People will always defend their addictions, but the facts are the facts. I just couldn't deny it anymore for myself and I feel SOOO much better....for sure.

 

Well, I wasn't defending anything, just asking. Very rarely do I drink coffee myself. What about tea (green, black, mate, etc.) and cocoa, though?

[Theresaann]

I know some people will say no caffeine is the best, that any at all can cause health problems. All I can speak to is from my own experience. I have no problems at all with green tea. I've grown to really love it. If I drink it after about 5 pm then I notice that it SOMETIMES interferes with my being able to fall asleep, but that only happened once and so I never drink it after 3 pm or so.

 

I know green tea has antioxidants and honestly, I can't feel the caffeine in it. I just like the taste. I do make teccino (naturally flavored chicory coffee substitute-avail at healthfood stores-with no caffeine) in the morning with a green tea bag in it. I freaking love that stuff! I make it with stevia or agave syrup and some silk soy cream. That is really good-has the "taste" of coffee, but is actually alkalinizing to the body. Kind of pricey though, so I add a green tea bag also.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a hard ass!

[DV]

I've been drinking black coffee for most of my life. I quit for 4 months last year and noticed absolutely no change in my sleep pattern, fat distribution, stress level, etc. I'm back to drinking coffee now and have put on muscle and lost fat since this time last year. So if we're just going with anecdotal results, I say drink your coffee and enjoy it. Or don't.

[vivalasvegans]

I live in a place where the oils in the coffee bean is never ever rancid. We have microroasteries that are absolutely obsessive about how long their product can stay on anyone's shelf.

 

Just defending my addiction here.

 

But for real, the amount of caffeine in a cup of coffee isn't too much exponentially greater than the amount of caffeine in a cup of green tea. I do see your point about quantity and approach to stress, I just think putting a halo over green tea and demonizing coffee is illogical.

 

Thereseann, I think it's great you're so in touch with your own personal body's responses, but green tea just isn't for everyone. Like DV says, your results are anecdotal.

 

I'm actually less concerned about its effects on my body and more concerned about the geopolitics and human rights abuses that go along with the massive growing of coffee as a monoculture cash crop.

[Oggy]

Green tea has L-Theanine in it which cancels out the effects of the caffeine. L-Theanine is a nootropic relaxant, the Japanese put this amino acid in the food for students at their schools. Japanese women live the longest and healthiest out of any other human beings on the planet, they drink lots green tea with natural BROWN sugar that has all the minerals to promote good health. Why the west refines anything is very questionable.

 

The western ill health-ed humans eat an high refined carb, high fat laced meat diet which also pulls calcium out of the bones to alkalise the blood. If the meat was lean and fat free a person on the Atkins diet would soon die.

 

The PH of the human bloodstream is approximately 7.4. If the PH of the bloodstream increases or decreases by just a small amount, we will die. Lucky for us we store calcium, magnesium and other minerals in our bones that are used to buffer the acidity of our bloodstream. Our diet should be composed of about 80% alkaline-forming foods and 20% acid-forming foods.

The standard American Diet(SAD)is reversed at about 80% acid-forming and 20% alkaline-forming.

The acid condition in the body that the SAD diet pulls calcium out of the bones to buffer the acidity of the bloodstream

and can lean to osteopenia or osteoporosis. As it has been proven frequently, the answer is not more calcium, but rather proper diet.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Oggy

[Oggy]

But doesn't coffee and/or tea have health benefits also? There's plenty of very positive info about green tea around the net. I've read that tea speeds up metabolism a bit, so maybe it isn't such a bad thing fat loss-wise? Also, what about cocoa - does it have any negative effects (eg. promote fat-storage)?

 

 

Raw cacao is often called the Food Of The Gods, there is 100's of micronutrients that are all healthy. The thing with caffeine is it pulls minerals and vitamins out of the bloodstream, as does smoking cigarettes.

 

Coffee, even decaffeinated contains oxalic acid.

 

Wiki

Physiological effects

 

The affinity of divalent metal ions is sometimes reflected in their tendency to form insoluble precipitates. Thus in the body, oxalic acid also combines with metals ions such as Ca2+, Fe2+, and Mg2+ to deposit crystals of the corresponding oxalates, which irritate the gut and kidneys. Because it binds vital nutrients such as calcium, long-term consumption of foods high in oxalic acid can be problematic. Healthy individuals can safely consume such foods in moderation, but those with kidney disorders, gout, rheumatoid arthritis, or certain forms of chronic vulvar pain (vulvodynia) are typically advised to avoid foods high in oxalic acid or oxalates. The calcium oxalate precipitate (better known as kidney stones) obstruct the kidney tubules. Conversely, calcium supplements taken along with foods high in oxalic acid can cause calcium oxalate to precipitate out in the gut and drastically reduce the levels of oxalate absorbed by the body (by 97% in some cases.)

[Guest]

Thanks, Oggy, that was very informative! So cocoa is fine, right? I googled around a bit and found that cocoa powder contains only very small amounts of caffeine, plenty of minerals, some vitamins and even a decent amount of fairly high-quality protein.

[Oggy]

Raw cacao, I eat raw cacao nibs they're bitter but I enjoy the flavor now. They give you a nice little mood lift. Sun dried Goji berries, raw cacao nibs and bee pollen is a nice little collection of goodies to have to nibble on when one gets a craving. All extremely healthy stuff, there's a "myth" of a Chinese Qigong expert living to 256 living of goji berries and other nutrient dense foods/herbs.

[Guest]

Raw cacao, I eat raw cacao nibs they're bitter but I enjoy the flavor now. They give you a nice little mood lift. Sun dried Goji berries, raw cacao nibs and bee pollen is a nice little collection of goodies to have to nibble on when one gets a craving. All extremely healthy stuff, there's a "myth" of a Chinese Qigong expert living to 256 living of goji berries and other nutrient dense foods/herbs.

 

Well, AFAIK, bee pollen isn't vegan, so I ain't touchin that and we haven't got goji berries here, but I sure will continue to drink bitter cocoa

[Oggy]

Well, AFAIK, bee pollen isn't vegan,

 

Damn it, so I'm not vegan then? Why is it not vegan? Is it only vegan when an animal hasn't produced it? Bee's are necessary for 50% vegetation that we eat so does that mean we shouldn't eat the vegetation that the bee has passed its pollen onto other plants to fertilise them? Bee pollen is just pollen collected from flowers/plants its not like your drinking the bee's milk or anything. Sorry I'm new to this vegan thing. Is there a certain guide one must follow to call themselves a vegan? I don't eat anything that comes from dead animals nor do I drink the milk of other animals.

[Guest]

Is it only vegan when an animal hasn't produced it?

 

Basically, yes. To be honest, I don't even ponder these minute issues (is bee pollen/honey vegan, for example) because to me it seems rather pointless and a waste of time. I mean, IF it is wrong for a vegan to consume those things - and I'm not 100% sure it is - I'd rather just avoid them, especially since it's piss-easy to do just that. There is no easier thing to do than be a healthy, strong vegan without honey/bee pollen, etc. Just my two cents If you would like a more in-depth answer, creating a designated new thread would probably be the best way.

[Nathan Nearing]

Just getting in on this "bee pollen" topic.

 

You can't consume bee pollen without the bee. Same with honey. The bees use a chemical in their bodies to produce it. Without them honey would not be possible.

 

It's no different than milking a cow. Yes, milking a cow doesn't kill it, but you still need a cow to get the milk. Same with honey. Doesn't kill bees, but you do need them to make it.

 

 

Honey or anything that comes from a bee isn't vegan. Period. It's understandable that you weren't sure, because for some reason this is a contested issue.

[blabbate]

Bee pollen is just pollen collected from flowers/plants its not like your drinking the bee's milk or anything.

True, but in order to collect it, the bees need to be farmed. That puts them in terrible conditions and turns them into a commodity.

[Ken]

Back on the coffee issue, I wonder if the type of processing makes a difference. When I have coffee it's cold-processed in one of those Toddy brewing canisters. Supposedly coffee brewed in that manner has 50-60% less acid and a ph of closer to 5.85, in contrast to regularly brewed coffee at 5.2-5.4. I assume that would help. (Basically I'm trying to find a way where I don't feel bad about having coffee a few times per week.)

[blabbate]

Back on the coffee issue, I wonder if the type of processing makes a difference. When I have coffee it's cold-processed in one of those Toddy brewing canisters. Supposedly coffee brewed in that manner has 50-60% less acid and a ph of closer to 5.85, in contrast to regularly brewed coffee at 5.2-5.4. I assume that would help. (Basically I'm trying to find a way where I don't feel bad about having coffee a few times per week.)

You shouldn't feel bad about a few times a week anyway. This is probably only an issue for chronic drinkers, if anyone. If you really think the coffee is causing issues, just go off it for a few weeks and see if you notice a difference.