Squats

[el_flaco]

You're there if you can squat slightly over 2X your BW for 24 reps. That's the equivalent of a 200lb person squatting 3x8x407lbs

No, for strength doesn't increase linearly with bodyweight.

[Guest]

You're there if you can squat slightly over 2X your BW for 24 reps. That's the equivalent of a 200lb person squatting 3x8x407lbs

No, for strength doesn't increase linearly with bodyweight.

That's true.

[VeganEssentials]

http://www.veganessentials.com/images/SquatBack.jpg

For your backs sake, put a towel underneath the bar.

 

And sacrifice stability of my bar placement? Never!

 

Like I said, this was using a REALLY sharp bar and doing something like 20 sets of 2 @ 405 when I was first getting used to low-bar positioning. Every time I had to get re-positioned on a set, it just tore me up more and more, but that was years ago. Now I've just got some nice tough scarred skin that keeps it from getting chewed up

[Octopussoir]

a smith machine???

and those were defenitely not parallel.

 

Yes, a Smith machine because the squat rack was being used. I normally do BB without the pad. I never claimed they were parallel. I mentioned that I was going to ATTEMPT to go parallel.

 

 

Those were high. And you seem to be using some bizarre tracked abomination...

 

Edited to add: Anything done on a smith machine doesn't qualify as a squat. On any other lifting website, that video would get a very poor reception; it's certainly not an example of vegan strength to *not* squat 285 on a smith machine using a bar pad...and it has no relevance to bar positioning when actually squatting.

 

Well, Im not a powerlifter nor was it a powerlifting meet. It was used as an example to use the pad(for comfort) not to say "oh look how strong I am..." And I normally wouldnt post it on any other lifting site. Most people are pretty damn friendly here and dont mind seeing just an ordinary video of someone lifting. Im sorry this doesnt meet your criteria.

 

Those are quarter squats in the vid.

 

There are a few guys on this forum who talk hardcore about weight training and how BIG they are; then they post videos of themselves weight training that aren't impressive. Someone else posted a squat vid of themsleves doing 1/8 squats and conventional deadlifts wearing sissy gloves using a snatch grip.

 

Don't talk hardcore unless you can back it up Poseurs!

 

They looked a little bit deeper than 1/4 squats. Where are your pictures? Where are your videos? Im merely posting videos not trying to show how big my penis is.

 

There's no defense for a trash talker who thinks he's big and bad with his useless non-functional muscles.

I'm used to see bodybuilders like Ronnie Coleman and Tom Platz squat. I have a photo from a book in front of me of Tom Platz doing Full Smith machine squats, hams touching his calves. What's Octopussies excuse?

 

Wow, when have I ever talked trash about someone lifts? Or at all...? Well unlike Ronnie, Im all NATURAL & VEGAN and dont wear squat suits nor do I wrap my knees so tight that when I squat it forces me up like a spring. Im also recovering from a knee injury. I dont go ass to calves because I want to be able to use my legs and have functioning knees when im 40. Whats your deal partner? This is the best I can do for the weight given and me being only 180lbs(and less than 10% bodyfat at all times) not 300lbs like ronnie coleman or high 200's like Tom Platz. Bodyweight does make a difference.

 

 

Also, I felt it in my legs and thats all that matters. You can bash me all you want I dont care. Im working out to better the look of my body not to do FUNCTIONAL training. I do like functional, but have to stay away from it because of my current goals. I dont use the safety stops and I had to spot so I didnt want to chance getting stuck had I gone full into the 285 and 300.

 

Here was your introduction to our site:

Hi everyone! My name is 4x4. I became a strict vegetarian about 2 years ago for minor health issues slightly overweight and slightly elevated cholesterol. I've been lifting weights to increase my strength for about a year. I'm not a bodybuilder, powerlifter, or olympic lifter. Nice to meet you all.

 

But now you are a professional when it comes to squatting?

 

 

I found this one hundred push-ups program . I can barely do 3 push-ups so I wanted to start trying it out

So to a person who can barely do 3 pushups just 2 months ago youre going to bash me using the Smith machine because I had to?

Edited July 3, 2009 by Octopussoir

[Nightingale]

I think they are just jealous, Jimi. I've seen you do squats before and it's definitely not quarter.

[lobsteriffic]

I found this one hundred push-ups program . I can barely do 3 push-ups so I wanted to start trying it out

So to a person who can barely do 3 pushups just 2 months ago youre going to bash me using the Smith machine because I had to?

 

Just to be fair, I think I'm the one who said that. 4x4 was quoting me I believe. I suck at push-ups.

 

Not that I'm defending anyone...I think this thread got unnecessarily rude toward Jimi quite quickly. Okay I'm backing away now...

[Octopussoir]

I found this one hundred push-ups program . I can barely do 3 push-ups so I wanted to start trying it out

So to a person who can barely do 3 pushups just 2 months ago youre going to bash me using the Smith machine because I had to?

*

Just to be fair, I think I'm the one who said that. 4x4 was quoting me I believe. I suck at push-ups.

*

Not that I'm defending anyone...I think this thread got unnecessarily rude toward Jimi quite quickly. Okay I'm backing away now...

Thats my bad then. It just showed up under his name... I dont need anyone defending me. No matter what I say I do...I can back it up with proof.

[sydneyvegan]

4 x 4 looks like it's time to Put up or Shut Up...

 

There are plenty of people on this forum that post photos and video's of themselves training or just of their physique.

When they do this, they get comments both good and bad and have to deal with it accordingly.

So of you are going to attack someone, then why don't you post some photos or videos of you doing squats?

 

Yeah sure from a power lifting or hardcore training point of view, squats on the smith machine aren't great, but looking at the hundreds of pics of Jimi on this forum, training and in BODYBUILDING competitions, he is definitely doing the right things to achieve his goals.

 

Back to the original post... If you take VeganEssential and EL_flaco's advice on board you'll be moving in a great direction, they are 2 of the strongest vegans there are!

[Guest]

Sydney, I don't know where you were coming from in your post. (Well I have some idea, but I won't go there.) I never mentioned your name in this thread nor have I ever criticized you about anything. I respect you and I am very impressed by your training regiment; its admirable and inspirational. And no I won't Shut Up. If you have a problem with what I have to say, ignore it and quit complaining.

Where are your pictures? Where are your videos?

I don't have a digital camera, cell phone, or video camera. Octo, you need to develope a thicker skin because you are getting very defensive.

Also' date=' I felt it in my legs and thats all that matters. You can bash me all you want I dont care.[/quote']Obviously you do care, otherwise you wouldn't have gotten so defensive.

Whats your deal partner? ..... Most people are pretty damn friendly here and dont mind seeing just an ordinary video of someone lifting. Im sorry this doesnt meet your criteria.

What's my deal? Think hard and you may be able to figure it out. Oh' date=' really?? Like you and hmmmmm??? Do I need to remind you of your hypocracy and your post that RC deleted? You can dish it out, but you can't take it in return.

They looked a little bit deeper than 1/4 squats. Im merely posting videos not trying to show how big my penis is.

No, you were not trying to show how big your penis is, just your not so "big" non-functional muscles.

Here was your introduction to our site:

Hi everyone! My name is 4x4. I became a strict vegetarian about 2 years ago for minor health issues slightly overweight and slightly elevated cholesterol. I've been lifting weights to increase my strength for about a year. I'm not a bodybuilder' date=' powerlifter, or olympic lifter[/b']. Nice to meet you all.

But now you are a professional when it comes to squatting?

That's petty and childish to post my introducton in a section that has nothing to do with introductions.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Anonymous

[Nightingale]

It's pretty childish to talk crap, don't you think?

[Octopussoir]

What's my deal? Think hard and you may be able to figure it out. Oh, really?? Like you and hmmmmm??? Do I need to remind you of your hypocracy and your post that RC deleted? You can dish it out, but you can't take it in return.

Actually I was defending Josh because he is an awesome guy in person and I was merely stating that his online talk...is just that, talk. Youre the one who got bent out of shape over something he said about an online site/comment.

 

No, you were not trying to show how big your penis is, just your not so "big" non-functional muscles.

Never stated I had "big" muscles. You just jealous... When people succeed in life there are always haters.

 

That's petty and childish to post my introducton in a section that has nothing to do with introductions

It just goes to show you admit that you know nothing about what youre ranting about! Just proving a point.

[Guest]

What's my deal? Think hard and you may be able to figure it out. Oh, really?? Like you and hmmmmm??? Do I need to remind you of your hypocracy and your post that RC deleted? You can dish it out, but you can't take it in return.

Actually I was defending Josh because he is an awesome guy in person and I was merely stating that his online talk...is just that, talk. Youre the one who got bent out of shape over something he said about an online site/comment.

 

No, you were not trying to show how big your penis is, just your not so "big" non-functional muscles.

Never stated I had "big" muscles. You just jealous... When people succeed in life there are always haters.

 

That's petty and childish to post my introducton in a section that has nothing to do with introductions

It just goes to show you admit that you know nothing about what youre ranting about! Just proving a point.

You defend an asshole who calls people douchebags. How noble of you. I forgot that for people like yourself this is NOT a fitness forum, its a social networking site (Vegan Facebook).

 

Yes, I'm a jealous hater with different goals than an undersized bodybuilder. I know vegan powerlifters, olympclifters and strongmen who have more muscle mass and definition than you and it's functional muscle.

 

Yes, I admit you obviously know nothing about squatting if you think that deep squatting is going to ruin a lifters knees.

 

You're still getting defensive and cope with your insecurities buy by telling yourself everybody is jealous of you. Get real man.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Anonymous

[sydneyvegan]

Sydney, I don't know where you were coming from in your post. (Well I have some idea, but I won't go there.) I never mentioned your name in this thread nor have I ever criticized you about anything. I respect you and I am very impressed by your training regiment; its admirable and inspirational. And no I won't Shut Up. If you have a problem with what I have to say, ignore it and quit complaining

Where I am coming from is this.

You obviously have a problem with Squats on a Smith Machine, as do a lot of people who have posted in this topic.

Ralst, El_flaco etc, yet they were able to voice their criticisms strongly, but respectfully.

They didn't see the need to post things like

OP: Neck problems? Grow some traps.

 

There are a few guys on this forum who talk hardcore about weight training and how BIG they are; then they post videos of themselves weight training that aren't impressive. Someone else posted a squat vid of themsleves doing 1/8 squats and conventional deadlifts wearing sissy gloves using a snatch grip.

 

Don't talk hardcore unless you can back it up Poseurs!

 

Sounds like you are talking hard core without backing it up, hence the "Put up or Shut up comment"

 

(Well I have some idea, but I won't go there.)

 

Please do go there, I'm intrigued to know what you mean by this? Maybe it is my current flu or Tofu induced brain fog, but I have no idea what you are on about.

 

I realise that you have never personally critised me, and I thank you for the positive comments about my journal, I just felt it necessary to comment, when you come out all guns blazing against someone that has represented the Vegan community well, and competed on stage as a vegan. Meanwhile putting themselves out there to be judged by all and sundry.

[ralst]

Well, first off, if I had known 4X4 was about to jump in the thread intent on starting some sort of holy war, I wouldn't have said anything to begin with

 

Those were high. And you seem to be using some bizarre tracked abomination...

 

Edited to add: Anything done on a smith machine doesn't qualify as a squat. On any other lifting website, that video would get a very poor reception; it's certainly not an example of vegan strength to *not* squat 285 on a smith machine using a bar pad...and it has no relevance to bar positioning when actually squatting.

 

Well, Im not a powerlifter nor was it a powerlifting meet. It was used as an example to use the pad(for comfort) not to say "oh look how strong I am..." And I normally wouldnt post it on any other lifting site. Most people are pretty damn friendly here and dont mind seeing just an ordinary video of someone lifting. Im sorry this doesnt meet your criteria.

 

Cheers Octo. I have this intense hatred for smith machines that gets the better of me sometimes

 

I'm not telling you to do it any differently, but I think the general advice on whether to use bar pads or not is: don't, as they tend to create an altered and less stable bar position. Much like smith squats are usually recommended against because they force the body into an unnatural movement pattern.

 

I think part of the misunderstanding on my part was that your video didn't come with much explanation, so I immediately jumped to thinking you were advising people to not only squat on a smith machine but to use a bar pad as well. And of course that's just the absolute most terrible thing in the world, as 4X4 is obviously communicating effectively and with great restraint (sarcasm)

 

To the OP: aside from what VeganEssentials said, neck pain can also come from head positioning during the squats. Are you looking up as you squat? A lot of people advise that, and a lot of people do that, but looking up involves taking the head and neck way out of a neutral alignment while under load, and is in my opinion a bad idea. Too easy to tweak a neck muscle with your head way back looking at the ceiling; my advice would be to try to adopt a neutral head positioning while squatting, which should mean you're looking down towards the ground at a point some 5-10 feet in front of you.

I dont see how the head and neck would be under load while squatting unless you are squatting with the bar on your head ? There could still be tension though of course.

 

I agree that looking towards the ceiling sounds excessive, I think usually it is reccomended to find a focal point located slightly below eye level when standing. I'm not sure what exactly the experts say on this for squats, but I know that for the oly lifts there are two schools of thought, one is holding the head up and the other is keeping the head in alignment with the spine. Both seem to work. Therefore I would guess both are fine for squats too, matter of personal preference probably.

 

I guess I should have said under stress, not under load. The only expert's advice I'm familiar with is Mark Rippetoe's, which is to keep the head neutral, which according to him means focusing on a spot on the floor about 5-6 feet out in front of your feet. Works pretty well for me.

 

This guy's got a pretty good post about the topic on his site, http://squatrx.blogspot.com/2009/02/head-positioning-in-squat.html. I don't think it 100% agrees with me, but that's ok

[Guest]

Sounds like you are talking hard core without backing it up, hence the "Put up or Shut up comment"

I was being sarcastic when I said "Grow some traps." I said that already, I think. "Grow some traps" is a common phrase I've seen posted on several forums numerous times. It was meant to be humorous.

(Well I have some idea' date=' but I won't go there.)[/quote']Please do go there, I'm intrigued to know what you mean by this? Maybe it is my current flu or Tofu induced brain fog, but I have no idea what you are on about.

I'll PM you tomorrow about that.

I realise that you have never personally critised me, and I thank you for the positive comments about my journal, I just felt it necessary to comment, when you come out all guns blazing against someone that has represented the Vegan community well, and competed on stage as a vegan. Meanwhile putting themselves out there to be judged by all and sundry.

His personallity hasn't represented himself or the human race well.

[Guest]

Respect and Disrespect are earned.

 

To everyone, do you want to create a vegan fitness community or a vegan social networking site???

You can't create community with shit like this.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=17931

viewtopic.php?p=204726#p204726

Edited July 3, 2009 by Anonymous

[VeganEssentials]

Can't we all just get along?

 

Seriously, this IS getting a bit out of hand here. Let's agree to disagree and go with it at that. Jimi trains one way, some of us train other ways, but it's all good. We're out to get bigger and stronger, so while we're not all going about it the same way, we're after the same missions.

 

I've seen this stuff get WAY too heated in the past on other boards. There's no reason that powerlifters, strongmen, olympic lifters, bodybuilders and general fitness enthusiasts need to get all up in each others' faces about their preferred discipline being best. Not everyone wants to train the same way, not everyone has the same goals in the end, so be it. We've got enough to fight against in smashing the stereotypes that vegans are all scrawny and weak - let's work together rather rather than find new ways to divide.

 

Preaching over!

[VeganDrew]

Can't we all just get along?

 

Seriously, this IS getting a bit out of hand here. Let's agree to disagree and go with it at that. Jimi trains one way, some of us train other ways, but it's all good. We're out to get bigger and stronger, so while we're not all going about it the same way, we're after the same missions.

 

I've seen this stuff get WAY too heated in the past on other boards. There's no reason that powerlifters, strongmen, olympic lifters, bodybuilders and general fitness enthusiasts need to get all up in each others' faces about their preferred discipline being best. Not everyone wants to train the same way, not everyone has the same goals in the end, so be it. We've got enough to fight against in smashing the stereotypes that vegans are all scrawny and weak - let's work together rather rather than find new ways to divide.

 

Preaching over!

.

[xveganjoshx]

You defend an asshole who calls people douchebags.

Whatever obsession you have with trying to drag my name through the mud in multiple threads, whatever motivates you to want to do that, you might want to stop. It just makes you look foolish.

[xphilx]

holy shit! i just woke up and checked in again to see what happened on vbb meanwhile and then i saw this mess in here.

 

guys could you please read VEs last post and then calm down a bit?!

 

@Octo: i never meant to be really offensive. my post was supposed to have a more amused than aggressive undertone. maybe i should have add a smiley or something like that.

[Guest]

Respect and Disrespect are earned.

 

To everyone, do you want to create a vegan fitness community or a vegan social networking site???

You can't create community with shit like this.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=17931

viewtopic.php?p=204726#p204726

[Nightingale]

Ok, I have to say a few things because this is really pissing me off.

 

Respect and Disrespect are earned.

 

To everyone, do you want to create a vegan fitness community or a vegan social networking site???

You can't create community with shit like this.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=17931

viewtopic.php?p=204726#p204726

 

How do any of your statements earn you respect? No wonder you were called names in that first thread. And, what do either of those threads have to do with "Octo". He's not a moderator, nor did he disrepect you.

 

His personallity hasn't represented himself or the human race well.

 

I can assure you (and probably most people on this board) that you know very little about his personality. I joined this board because of how great he spoke of it, but I come here and see you talking negatively about him for no reason! All he did was post a video, and then you berate him for it. Instead of giving critism respectfully, you start off with statements like this:

There's no defense for a trash talker who thinks he's big and bad with his useless non-functional muscles.

 

I'm used to see bodybuilders like Ronnie Coleman and Tom Platz squat. I have a photo from a book in front of me of Tom Platz doing Full Smith machine squats, hams touching his calves. What's Octopussies excuse?

 

For your information, by the way, "Octo" has been a powerlifter in the past, has done functional training in the past, and has done deep squats with 315 before. I've seen it and I've seen how big he was at the time. HE didn't like being so heavy, so he decided to make a life change. Therefore, he doesn't DO lifting like that anymore. He doesn't want to be over 200 pounds again. It's so easy to come on here and knock someone that makes progress towards his goals--whether you are jealous or not is irrelevant. You come off looking like you are whether you intend to or not.

 

Oh and also, in my opinion, "Octo" is much bigger in person than on his pictures/videos. He wasn't posting his video to brag about how big his muscles are. He posted to say, "this is how I did it today." If there's anything I know about "Octo," it's that he isn't someone who goes around boasting about himself. Sure there are people that he knows well that he may joke around with, but he isn't the type of person that brags. In fact, most of the time it's quite the opposite (to the point where I want to slap him). Maybe you should talk about things/people that you ACTUALLY know about?

 

Maybe "Octo" should take it as a compliment that you think he should be compared to athletes like Ronnie Coleman? I'll thank you for him. Thanks!!

 

If you have a problem with what I have to say, ignore it and quit complaining.

It seems you have a lot of problems with what other people say, so why not take your own advice? And just curious, how old are you? Seems like you need to grow up a little...

 

Cheers Octo. I have this intense hatred for smith machines that gets the better of me sometimes

 

I'm not telling you to do it any differently, but I think the general advice on whether to use bar pads or not is: don't, as they tend to create an altered and less stable bar position. Much like smith squats are usually recommended against because they force the body into an unnatural movement pattern.

 

I think part of the misunderstanding on my part was that your video didn't come with much explanation, so I immediately jumped to thinking you were advising people to not only squat on a smith machine but to use a bar pad as well. And of course that's just the absolute most terrible thing in the world, as 4X4 is obviously communicating effectively and with great restraint (sarcasm)

Keep the comments and healthy criticism coming! He is in such a better mood when he gets back from the gym after reading a thread like this.

[Guest]

This pattern is getting old. Someones acts like an asshole an their friends defend and make excuses for their assholic behavior.

 

 

Ok, I have to say a few things because this is really pissing me off.

 

Respect and Disrespect are earned.

 

To everyone, do you want to create a vegan fitness community or a vegan social networking site???

You can't create community with shit like this.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=17931

viewtopic.php?p=204726#p204726

 

How do any of your statements earn you respect? No wonder you were called names in that first thread. And, what do either of those threads have to do with "Octo". He's not a moderator, nor did he disrepect you.

 

His personallity hasn't represented himself or the human race well.

 

I can assure you (and probably most people on this board) that you know very little about his personality. I joined this board because of how great he spoke of it, but I come here and see you talking negatively about him for no reason! All he did was post a video, and then you berate him for it. Instead of giving critism respectfully, you start off with statements like this:

There's no defense for a trash talker who thinks he's big and bad with his useless non-functional muscles.

 

I'm used to see bodybuilders like Ronnie Coleman and Tom Platz squat. I have a photo from a book in front of me of Tom Platz doing Full Smith machine squats, hams touching his calves. What's Octopussies excuse?

 

For your information, by the way, "Octo" has been a powerlifter in the past, has done functional training in the past, and has done deep squats with 315 before. I've seen it and I've seen how big he was at the time. HE didn't like being so heavy, so he decided to make a life change. Therefore, he doesn't DO lifting like that anymore. He doesn't want to be over 200 pounds again. It's so easy to come on here and knock someone that makes progress towards his goals--whether you are jealous or not is irrelevant. You come off looking like you are whether you intend to or not.

 

Oh and also, in my opinion, "Octo" is much bigger in person than on his pictures/videos. He wasn't posting his video to brag about how big his muscles are. He posted to say, "this is how I did it today." If there's anything I know about "Octo," it's that he isn't someone who goes around boasting about himself. Sure there are people that he knows well that he may joke around with, but he isn't the type of person that brags. In fact, most of the time it's quite the opposite (to the point where I want to slap him). Maybe you should talk about things/people that you ACTUALLY know about?

 

Maybe "Octo" should take it as a compliment that you think he should be compared to athletes like Ronnie Coleman? I'll thank you for him. Thanks!!

 

If you have a problem with what I have to say, ignore it and quit complaining.

It seems you have a lot of problems with what other people say, so why not take your own advice? And just curious, how old are you? Seems like you need to grow up a little...

 

Cheers Octo. I have this intense hatred for smith machines that gets the better of me sometimes

 

I'm not telling you to do it any differently, but I think the general advice on whether to use bar pads or not is: don't, as they tend to create an altered and less stable bar position. Much like smith squats are usually recommended against because they force the body into an unnatural movement pattern.

 

I think part of the misunderstanding on my part was that your video didn't come with much explanation, so I immediately jumped to thinking you were advising people to not only squat on a smith machine but to use a bar pad as well. And of course that's just the absolute most terrible thing in the world, as 4X4 is obviously communicating effectively and with great restraint (sarcasm)

Keep the comments and healthy criticism coming! He is in such a better mood when he gets back from the gym after reading a thread like this.

[robert]

I'm not around as much as I used to be and tend to post in my journal, some photos, intros and call it good....so I don't "police" stuff as much anymore on the forum which I'm sure most people appreciate

 

But I will say....if there is some sort of pattern where it does seem that a certain person or people tend to bring the forum down or tend to on a regular basis cause problems, they will be removed, just as I had to do with one of my best friends who I still hang out with regularly (veganpotter), it just wasn't working with him on the forum.......I have to do what I have to do so I look for patterns and receive feedback from other members and then have to make some decisions that send people away sometimes for the best interest in the community......just keep that in mind....I didn't even know about this thread but was given a heads up about it and if enough complaints come in, we'll have to do something. And nobody is off limits. It's part of my job as Admin.

 

But I'm not policing stuff, I'm too busy, in fact off to the gym now, I compete in a week, etc. I would suggest that each person make an effort to be considerate. I think that is the single best choice a person can make. What likely brought us to a vegan lifestyle in the first place. Be considerate....consider the alternative....being considerate is always a good way to go through life.

 

See ya! Gotta get to the gym......

[Nightingale]

This pattern is getting old. Someones acts like an asshole an their friends defend and make excuses for their assholic behavior.

 

Did I miss when someone defended your behavior?