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Optimal protein intake to maximize muscle protein synthesis


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It really doesn't say anything very useful except that THEORETICALLY eating tons of dairy, eggs, and meat MIGHT build muscle mass. Plenty of studies have shown that it doesn't. Looks like just another PHd on the agribusiness payroll toeing the research funding line. There are trillions of dollars at stake in these debates. The livestock industry has deep pockets and they will fund anyone who has a story that protects their business.

 

A useful study would be a neutral party, not financed by agribusiness, feeding a group of athletes these elevated leucine levels at the supposedly ideal times and seeing how they fare against a control group all done double blind. I wonder why they didn't do the real study instead of all this theoretical debating? Maybe they're worried about the skyrocketing cholesterol, fat, bone disease, and cancer that would result from eating so many animal products.

 

Everything I've read says that it has never been demonstrated in a controlled study that eating large amounts of protein increases muscle synthesis. If someone is aware of some studies that actually fed people high protein levels against a normal level control group and produced meaningfully larger amounts of muscle, and was reproduced by other qualified and independent scientists, I'd sure like to see it?

 

As beautiful as you are Johan, your living proof that protein loading doesn't work. I say we do our own experiment: you drop the protein and start doing super high intensity lifting an hour a week. I bet we can change you from fashion model to bodybuilder in no time! I say muscle is built in the gym and not the kitchen.

 

This is all potentially useless though considering the large body of evidence that indicates eating large amounts of protein is unhealthy. We know steroids build muscle, but what fitness enthusiast would ever use them?

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I wonder why they didn't do the real study instead of all this theoretical debating? Maybe they're worried about the skyrocketing cholesterol, fat, bone disease, and cancer that would result from eating so many animal products.

 

The text is not about general health and neither is this thread so don't start talking about the negative impacts of high protein diets etc, please.

 

 

and since when did large amounts of protein equal large amounts of animal products?

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It really doesn't say anything very useful except that THEORETICALLY eating tons of dairy, eggs, and meat MIGHT build muscle mass. Plenty of studies have shown that it doesn't. Looks like just another PHd on the agribusiness payroll toeing the research funding line. There are trillions of dollars at stake in these debates. The livestock industry has deep pockets and they will fund anyone who has a story that protects their business.

 

Look at the actual science behind this. He refers to a bunch of studies to up his claims. And yes, he might be payed by the livestock industry. I don't know and I don't really give a fuck. Every study ever done is sponsored by someone. If you're not an idiot it's easy to separate what is fact in what he says and what the "evil industry" that's paying him says. Now as an example, what scinence tells us is simply that leucine has a key roll in protein synthesis and the amount of this amino acid might be a good idea to keep an eye on. When he later "translates" this into acctual advice for the person reading he choose to say chicken, beef, eggs, milk and etc. This is not a lie because all of these food items are rich in leucine but it's just HIS choices and not ours. By simply using nutritiondata you can find plenty of leucine rich foods that are vegan. The "food" richest in leucine is acctually soy protein isolate. A lot of defatted seed, soy and nut products are at the top (this is per 100 gram) but later you also find the regular seeds and nuts. http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-000082000000000000000-w.html.

You shouldn't ignore the whole paper just because his conclusions is to eat animals. The "leucin-issue" might be an explanation to why it's "harder" for vegans to build muscle. They simply need to do the whole food combining thing, legumes + nuts/seeds (not saying this is needed for health, just for athletes that want to build muscle more efficient).

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  • 2 weeks later...
http://agro-food-industry.teknoscienze.com/pdf/norton_AF2_09.PDF

 

Read it, you will not regret it. The text is not about general health and neither is this thread so don't start talking about the negative impacts of high protein diets etc, please.

great! thank you for sharing this. this text seems to show a different point of view respect than the other I use to read. I have not read it all, I have great difficulties to understand some parts!! when I finish to read it, I will up discussion thanks again:wink:

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  • 1 month later...

I have to disagree with what raw vegan said about muscle being built in the gym not the kitchen. The gym work breaks you down and the nutrition and rest is what actually builds you up. No training in the world can make up for not enough fuel/ rest.

 

But i do agree with some of what else you said about who is founding the research and so on. You can find studies that find anything and alot of time studies that show the exact opposite. That said Layne is a stud for a natural guy so i listen to what he says even i don't agree with all of it. Luckly i easily hit the Leucine amount he recommends.

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I have to disagree with what raw vegan said about muscle being built in the gym not the kitchen. The gym work breaks you down and the nutrition and rest is what actually builds you up. No training in the world can make up for not enough fuel/ rest.

 

But i do agree with some of what else you said about who is founding the research and so on. You can find studies that find anything and alot of time studies that show the exact opposite. That said Layne is a stud for a natural guy so i listen to what he says even i don't agree with all of it. Luckly i easily hit the Leucine amount he recommends.

???

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I have to disagree with what raw vegan said about muscle being built in the gym not the kitchen. The gym work breaks you down and the nutrition and rest is what actually builds you up. No training in the world can make up for not enough fuel/ rest.

 

But i do agree with some of what else you said about who is founding the research and so on. You can find studies that find anything and alot of time studies that show the exact opposite. That said Layne is a stud for a natural guy so i listen to what he says even i don't agree with all of it. Luckly i easily hit the Leucine amount he recommends.

???

 

Yeah there's a study for everything. High protein is good, moderate protein is good, no you need extremely high protein, low protein is best, extremely low protein is best, high carb is good, no carbs are the cause of the holocost. ect.

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Yeah there's a study for everything. High protein is good, moderate protein is good, no you need extremely high protein, low protein is best, extremely low protein is best, high carb is good, no carbs are the cause of the holocost. ect.

 

True... so much conflicting info out there. Gotta go with what feels right for you!

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Yeah there's a study for everything. High protein is good, moderate protein is good, no you need extremely high protein, low protein is best, extremely low protein is best, high carb is good, no carbs are the cause of the holocost. ect.

Exactly. I said it and will say it again: nutrition is not an exact science. Pure sciences are rare: mathematics... what else ?

I thought science was something that offers Facts that cannot be refuted or challenged... Thing is there is Science, and science. But some people say: there's been studies so why are you arguing? Precisely, if there is space for arguments, it is not science. Some theories are presented as facts...

I believe that in order to grow, muscles need proteins and calories and that those extra proteins are provided with the extra calories. So maybe eat 70-90 grams of proteins instead of 45... Enough is always enough... so 40 grams for a non-active person is enough and 80 grams may be enough for a bodybuilder; it always stays 10-25% of the calories coming from proteins... but to eat 180 grams of proteins, 265gr, or even 500 grams of proteins? 30, 40% and more from proteins ? too much is too much...

I understand some particular hormonal reactions due to extra proteins, like positive nitrogen balance, higher rate of testosterone, etc may increase grownt, but there is a point where it stops and serve to nothing.

I have more trust in the observation of nature and the behavior of wild animals, as well as my common sense and intuition, than in what scientists sponsored by the meat or dairy industry might have to say. Some studies conducted by serious Universities can be trusted, but not all. We gotta examine closely the methods they used to arrive to their conclusion, if they have any - often, they just have theories to explane their results, so its not real scientific experiments that can be repeated with the same results.

 

As for proteins being associated with animal products;; they don't even have to mention the words meat/dairy; people still associate proteins with these - it is an automatism, due to all the publicity that takes place since a century.

I've seen in bodybuilding magazines, in nutrition programs, sometimes they offer alternatives to whey, chicken breast and tuna, because they know omnis are getting tired of this shit; so they wirte' eat some nuts' or use soy isolate, but never on their own, they always put animal protein on the side, like a protein drink of half soy and half whey, they always try to convince people it wouldn't be efficient protein otherwise, perhaps because they don't know either; folks that write nutrition articles in bb magazines are ignorants... i've even seen one time: bodybuilders can eat fruits but not too many, one or two pieces of fruit per day is enough, because it contains high levels of sugar and calories... can you believe this, in the 21st century ? in fact, the opposite is true, due to water in it, fruits are low in calories and sugar, at least compared to commercial fruit juice, energy drinks, cakes, bread, pasta, bagels...

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Here's what i bring up any time i have a arugment with a meat head. I allways say where do you think the protein in cows meat comes from? OF course it comes from plants, so that shows that yes plants have protein. The best source of protein is different depending on the type of animal. it's not necessarlly the amino acids that are so much different between grass, different plants, animal fresh it's the form they come in. For a carivore the best protein is animal flesh becasue they have short digestive systesm and can't handle much fiber, plus they have a extremely low stomach PH. For a Cow they have two stomachs and a system that is meant to handle extremely fiber rich foods. Humans have a much longer digestive system then carnivores and most aporperate for plant foods, but not extremely low calorie high fiber foods like all greens/ grass as a staple. I belive we're meant to eat a wide variety of plant foods and probably started cooking because we can get extremly calorie dense highly nutritious food anywhere from grains/ legumes/ root veggies and fruit depending on the area.

 

People like to use the arugment that humans are disigned to eat meat. The only arugement they make is look every culture eats meat. I'd say to that well humans have eatten anything and everything. Name anything and a human has eaten it. The fact of the matter is the more animal products one consumes the more the health declines. the opposite is true with the healthy human foods. We allways hear, eat your veggies, eat your fruit, eat your whole grains ect. Your not going to get heart disease/ colon cancer from too much whole grains/ greens. What out man don't eat over 4 cups of kale a day or your chances of your colon roughting out of your ass goes up by 198 percent

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