British newspaper slams raw veganism

[seitan_man]

Just came across this:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/healthy-living/how-our-vegan-diet-made-us-ill-848322.html

 

 

They state at the end:

 

High-biological-value protein is found in meat, fish, eggs and dairy products. Low-biological-value protein is found in nuts, pulses and wholegrains. Separately, the latter don't contain all the essential amino acids, but do when combined correctly. Knowledge of which foods to mix together is therefore crucial.

 

 

[sinisterkungfu]

On the other hand, Food Network ran a show last night called My Life In Food or something like that, about reversing diabetes via a raw vegan diet. It was only 30 minutes long though.

[chrisjs]

"I remember going to the supermarket and buying butter for my older children. Lizzie, who had never had butter in her life, would grab the packet and gnaw into it"

HAHAHA what absolute garbage this article is. I didn't even get past that part, perhaps later her daughter was seen hunting squirrels for protein.

[RAINRA]

I wrote to the editors of the paper and told them it was a joke of an article and their lack of vitamin d was do to their pale ass not getting enough sun. No one write about hey I made my kid fat so I got him off McDonalds Hamburgers and soda... or hey w eat a high acidic diet I took my kids of coffee cigarette and alcohol... Or hey my kids had high cholesterol I took them off a saturated fat and transfat diet. No really these newspapers are a joke

[beforewisdom]

Just came across this:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/healthy-living/how-our-vegan-diet-made-us-ill-848322.html

 

 

They state at the end:

 

High-biological-value protein is found in meat, fish, eggs and dairy products. Low-biological-value protein is found in nuts, pulses and wholegrains. Separately, the latter don't contain all the essential amino acids, but do when combined correctly. Knowledge of which foods to mix together is therefore crucial.

 

 

 

I wouldn't call this quote "slamming", I would call it the truth. Plant foods have lower biological value. That is a fact. It is also a fact that human needs are just fine for that outside of the kind of needs created for bodybuilders growing rapidly from steroids.

 

Some plants do contain all of the 9 EAAs, but not in meaningful enough quantities. The coauthors of the American Dietetic Association, several of whom are vegan nutrition authors, recommend complementing proteins at *least* over the course of the day for adequate amino acid balance. For optimum amino acid balance, complement at every meal:

 

Your choices are:

 

1. legumes + whole grains

2. legumes + seed

[ukrcountry]

How stupid. I didn't even get through the whole article. Clearly the mother doesn't know much about nutrition. An average body only needs about 14g of protien a day. Which can easily be eaten 3 times a day. Or taken through vegan protien powder which has 25/serving, at least mine does anyways. Which if she did do that, her daughter wouldn't be "eating half a chicken, 2 litres of milk, half a pound of cheese and 3 eggs" Could you imagine the daughter's constipation problems afterwards? But I guess that's a normal thing. As for her vitamin D defincency, did she ever think that maybe she needed to switch vitamin D suppliments?

In that picture, they still look sick anyways.

 

Some people are just too stupid to become vegans/vegetarians and should stick to eating meat.

[beforewisdom]

An average body only needs about 14g of protien a day

 

That simply isn't true and that is a drastically low amount of protein. No disrespect.

 

Sticky: Getting Started Right With Vegan Diets

Edited July 27, 2009 by beforewisdom

[Zack]

An average body only needs about 14g of protien a day.

 

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2231/kicard.gif

[Fallen_Horse]

Just came across this:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/healthy-living/how-our-vegan-diet-made-us-ill-848322.html

 

 

They state at the end:

 

High-biological-value protein is found in meat, fish, eggs and dairy products. Low-biological-value protein is found in nuts, pulses and wholegrains. Separately, the latter don't contain all the essential amino acids, but do when combined correctly. Knowledge of which foods to mix together is therefore crucial.

 

 

 

I wouldn't call this quote "slamming", I would call it the truth. Plant foods have lower biological value. That is a fact. It is also a fact that human needs are just fine for that outside of the kind of needs created for bodybuilders growing rapidly from steroids.

 

Some plants do contain all of the 9 EAAs, but not in meaningful enough quantities. The coauthors of the American Dietetic Association, several of whom are vegan nutrition authors, recommend complementing proteins at *least* over the course of the day for adequate amino acid balance. For optimum amino acid balance, complement at every meal:

 

Your choices are:

 

1. legumes + whole grains

2. legumes + seed

 

^ The most legitimate post in this thread so far

[ukrcountry]

An average body only needs about 14g of protien a day

 

That simply isn't true and that is a drastically low amount of protein. No disrespect.

 

Sticky: Getting Started Right With Vegan Diets

 

Thanks, I learnt something new today. No sarcasm intended. Still kinda new to this.

[Couture547]

Just came across this:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/healthy-living/how-our-vegan-diet-made-us-ill-848322.html

 

 

They state at the end:

 

High-biological-value protein is found in meat, fish, eggs and dairy products. Low-biological-value protein is found in nuts, pulses and wholegrains. Separately, the latter don't contain all the essential amino acids, but do when combined correctly. Knowledge of which foods to mix together is therefore crucial.

 

 

 

I wouldn't call this quote "slamming", I would call it the truth. Plant foods have lower biological value. That is a fact. It is also a fact that human needs are just fine for that outside of the kind of needs created for bodybuilders growing rapidly from steroids.

 

Some plants do contain all of the 9 EAAs, but not in meaningful enough quantities. The coauthors of the American Dietetic Association, several of whom are vegan nutrition authors, recommend complementing proteins at *least* over the course of the day for adequate amino acid balance. For optimum amino acid balance, complement at every meal:

 

Your choices are:

 

1. legumes + whole grains

2. legumes + seed

 

 

I think your wrong. First of all there is not one whole Vegan food that is competely missing any one of the essential amino acids. Some amino acids are lower or higher on certain plant foods as they are on animal foods. Secondly, you say it's a fact that plant foods have a lower biological value. There is no concrete proff of this what so ever. Just becasue the amino acids of animal foods happen to be more even with each don't make that a better protein source. Like other nutrients people need different amounts of different nutrients for the ideal balance. Saying every amino acids should be the exact same would be like saying that your all your minerals need to be equal with each for proper balance or that you need equal vitamins for each vitamin which we know isn't true.

 

I'm just surprised that Vegans buy into this Myth from Research that has been founded by the meat and dairy industry. This same kinda of reseach that tells us if we don't drink are daily milk are bones are going to get frail and we're going to fall apart. My best muscle gains ever have came as a vegan and i have no doubt that Plants are not just the healthiest for us Humans but the ideal food for athletics.

[Im Your Man]

High-biological-value protein is found in meat, fish, eggs and dairy products. Low-biological-value protein is found in nuts, pulses and wholegrains.

High-biological-value protein is found in human meat or human milk; eggs or meat/milk of other animals is lower value. Unfortunately, or fortunately, eating the flesh of one's own kind cause metabolic disorders and can cause degenerative issues due to malignant proteins (prions): human mad cow disease, parkinson, alzheimer... And people get those diseases because they eat the meat of cannibalized animals. What do we care if there are 'more complete' sources of proteins than plant-based foods? Gorillas share 98,6% of our dna and they eat a fruitarian diet.

 

An average body only needs about 14g of protien a day.

I would say at least 30g, but who knows ? The official number keeps going smaller every year or every decade. How much grams of protein did that ape eat, the one fed with almost nothing but lived longer than the one fed with more food?

 

When Lizzie smiled, Paige suddenly noticed her upper front teeth were pitted with holes.

 

"I was absolutely horrified," recalls Paige.

So she never noticed anything and then suddenly....

They had been raw vegans for three years, and ate plenty of fruit, vegetables, nuts, seeds, grains, soya and pulses, but no meat, fish or dairy.

raw sprouted grains ok, but raw soy?

 

Paige now believes that her children were craving dairy products. "It was confusing because for the first year I felt good, calm and content, and had plenty of energy. The children didn't have childhood sicknesses. But something seemed to be missing. We were always picking between meals, always obsessed by food."

Does she really think that a food that never been eaten by mankind until recently (1,000 years or so) is essential to human health? She is probably too retarded to know that most people in Asia and Africa never drink milk or eat dairy and about 90% of world population is lactose intolerant.

 

"It was the third year when my body started disintegrating, frighteningly fast. I was getting thin, losing muscle and I was going to bed at half nine." She would also have "mad" binges, and eat nothing but rice cakes and butter.

I remember having read this exact same thing in another article many months ago. They use the same story many times ! oh yeah, and rice cakes and butter is raw vegan ?

[tuc]

tuc delivers a debunk to the article in Independent:

 

http://www.vegpage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=864:hypochondriac-parent-blames-vegan-diet&catid=29:main-news&Itemid=3

 

edit: massive typo

Edited July 28, 2009 by tuc

[Im Your Man]

I like the ending:

It's too bad that journalistic integrity has stooped so low as to let a hypochondriac psychedelic drug-using mother advise us against a natural and disease-reversing diet. How long will society be afraid of change?

 

I said I've heard about this story long ago, but it was probably the same article, I just noticed its from last summer.

[Couture547]

It's just another anti Vegan propaganda at it's finest. reminds me of this Westen A price foundation article and the guy was saying he eat a all vegan diet for a couple months and he competely fell apart, and his teeth started coming out along with a ton of other problems. You can do Meth for months and your not going to fall apart like alot of these anti vegan articles claim happens on a vegan diet.

[chrisjs]

I would call it the truth....Some plants do contain all of the 9 EAAs, but not in meaningful enough quantities.

What plants do not contain one or more essential amino acid? A lot of them are lacking in lysine, but I'm not aware of any that are devoid of some. Especially not enough to claim that only "some" do contain them all.

[Guest]

tuc delivers a debunk to the article in Inpedendet:

 

http://www.vegpage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=864:hypochondriac-parent-blames-vegan-diet&catid=29:main-news&Itemid=3

 

Did you write that article?

[Couture547]

I would call it the truth....Some plants do contain all of the 9 EAAs, but not in meaningful enough quantities.

What plants do not contain one or more essential amino acid? A lot of them are lacking in lysine, but I'm not aware of any that are devoid of some. Especially not enough to claim that only "some" do contain them all.

 

 

Your right, that's not one whole plant food on the planet that doesn't have some of each essential amino acid. Even by the Meat and dairy's industry standard of a compete protein which is bogus Most beans and pea's and alot of other foods are compete all by themselves. You can check out nutritiondata.com where they break down the amino acid profile of all foods and even have a score, any thing below 100 is considered by the main stream as not the best amino acid score. Potatoes are like 110, most beans are around 100, then if you combine something like quinoa and black bean your looking at a 118 score which is very high. And there basing there score on the most level amino acid break down with each other and there's no proff that we want even amino acid amounts for each amino acid

[beforewisdom]

I would call it the truth....Some plants do contain all of the 9 EAAs, but not in meaningful enough quantities.

What plants do not contain one or more essential amino acid? A lot of them are lacking in lysine, but I'm not aware of any that are devoid of some. Especially not enough to claim that only "some" do contain them all.

 

Thanks for quoting me Chris. If you notice in the quote you chose for me I wrote "not in meaningful enough quantities".

 

In order to make popcorn you need a pot with a lid. If you have 5 pots but only 2 lids, you can only make popcorn with 2 pots.

 

Human bodies make protein out of 9 essential amino acids that have to be matched up with amino acids in particular proportions --- just like pots and lids.

 

Many plant foods do have all 9 essential amino acids, but not all 9 in meaningful ( balanced) quantities. A given plant may have 5 pots, but only 2 lids. That is *part* of the reason the protein in plants has a low biological value.

 

Protein complimenting, which the vegans who helped coauthor the ADA Position Paper on Vegetarianism strongly recommend to do over the course of a day, is based on the fact that while some plants are short on lids, other plants are short on pots. Combining these plants gets you more complete sets. Eaten together during the same day will get you more complete pot+lids and will enable you to make more popcorn.

 

A human body has *some* capacity to balance out the essential amino acid imbalances I am describing, but it is a limited capacity. Sooner or later a human body has to get the raw materials from somewhere.

 

Complimenting your proteins over the course of a day is fine for most people as a minimum. A minimum is not "optimum" -- especially for athletic people. If you want to make the most use out of the protein you eat you would want to complement (balance) the amino acids in every meal you eat:

 

1. legumes + whole grains

2. legumes + seeds

 

#1 is by far one of the best vegan combinations as legumes & whole grains are almost mirror images of each other for what they lack and are strong in. Seeds and nuts have far less optimal patterns of essential amino acids, so relying on those to get the best balance of amino acids ---- matching lids and pots is a lot harder. You may be able to eat enough to get the same total amount of amino acids, but your body will not be to use those amino acids to make as much protein.

[beforewisdom]

I think your wrong.

 

See my reply to Chris.

 

I recommend that you google on the American Dietetic Position Paper On Vegetarianism. You may have to go through 2-3 pages of search results, but you should find a complete copy online. Many of the coauthors are vegan registered dieticians who are also vegan nutrition book authors. If you can't find it online you should be able to find a copy from your local library.

[Couture547]

The pots and pans anology works if we knew that each amino needs to be the same for optimal results, Even then combined Grain/ legume like you mentioned the combo has a very balanced profile as does potatoe just by it's self, Quinoa just by it's self, beans by it's self, pea's by it's self.

 

The amino acids in question are Methionine and Cystine for Legumes and Leucine, Lysine for grains. When combined or by themselves in the case of most legumes the only aminos that are still lower then others are Methionine and cystine, These are Sulfer bearing amino acids and one of the reasons why i've yet to come across a large amount meat/ dairy eatting person that doesn't have hideous suffer smelling gas. Even some vegans that supplement there diet with large amount of protein powder have this going on, but rarely the ones that arn't extremely high in protein. ALso it effects bad breath among other stuff. I guess you have to have either or though right? good digestion/ nice breath or be protein defencent.

 

Check out John Robbins and others of the most respected in the feild of Vegan nutrition dispell the myth.

 

I think it would be hard to speard Veganism on the We thrive on a diet of meat and plants (so therefore we must be made to eat it meat) but don't eat it, go Vegan, How about we give all lions/ tigers and other carnivores a diet of plants in the zoo's becasue it's unethical to eat meat. I personally belive Veganism is a Win, Win, Win, Win and don't feel like it's a handicaped diet athleticlly that's for sure

[chrisjs]

Thanks for quoting me Chris. If you notice in the quote you chose for me I wrote "not in meaningful enough quantities".

I don't want to get into a semantic argument over this, but my objection was over precisely what you said in response to the article. You said the article was the truth in that plants lack essential amino acids, though "some plants do contain all of the 9 EAAs, but not in meaningful enough quantities." That's interpreted as those few plants that contain all EAAs do not have meaningful quantities. One should assume that the conjunction contrasts the subject from the first part of the sentence in the absence of explicitly stating the subject.

 

In order to make popcorn you need a pot with a lid. If you have 5 pots but only 2 lids, you can only make popcorn with 2 pots.

Since we have our English in order, let's continue to silly analogies. Yes, the analogy works, but you are saying that a majority of plants are 5 pots with 0-2 lids. The reality is that they ALL have at least one lid, and a good amount of them have anywhere from 4 to 6 lids. That's a rough estimate but in the ballpark.

 

I agree with the logic behind protein combining, but the label of "incomplete", while traditional, implies that the protein as a whole is incomplete. That's not the truth. The truth is that they are unbalanced so the body cannot utilize 100% of that protein. A portion of that quantity of protein is complete, the rest is useless without more of the limiting amino acid. It's the same for animal protein, but they tend to be better balanced. (Except for gelatin, which is completely devoid of tryptophan.)

[tuc]

tuc delivers a debunk to the article in Inpedendet:

 

http://www.vegpage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=864:hypochondriac-parent-blames-vegan-diet&catid=29:main-news&Itemid=3

 

Did you write that article?

Nope, I just delivered it to you sir.

 

However, I would have written quite similarly if I have had the opportunity to use a few hours to debunk that myself... but luckily it had been done really well already.

[michaelhobson]

The New York Times printed an even worse article a couple of years ago, titled "Death by Veganism". http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html?_r=2

[tuc]

The New York Times printed an even worse article a couple of years ago, titled "Death by Veganism". http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html?_r=2

Here's some stuff about the article

 

http://www.tigersandstrawberries.com/2007/05/22/nina-planck-stirs-the-pot-vegans-get-steamed-film-at-eleven/

 

and here some more:

 

http://www.consciouskitchen.net/2007/05/response-to-death-by-veganism.html

 

I am not surprised that Nina Planck seems to have quite a few connections with Weston A. Price Foundation...