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British newspaper slams raw veganism


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THE BIG QUESTION HERE ...

 

Why do people eat meat?

Clogs your heart, causes all sorts of diseases, harms the environment and harms the animals. People love to label vegans crazy but I think killing animals and killing yourself with your own fork and knife is crazier. I sware this like the story of David and Goliath (as the story). Vegans are the small guy Non Meat eaters are Goliath. Look how mighty Goliath seemed... look how fast he fell.

 

People will find whatever way to justify eating meat and making vegetarianism look bad. It is not popular that is exactly why. My manager today called my food weird but tasted good. WHAT THE %$#&? She said I had strange food... And deep fried bird cut up into little nuggets covered in bread and batter and then doused with salt and chemicals is not strange food? That is just crazy. Chick fillet makes me sick

 

No one should try really fight people who say nonsense but prove to people like many here and let people know that your healthy let them see your energy. This is far more effective. I talked to my neighbor who is a smoker heavy drinker and eats fast food all day and when I told him about the article Death by veganism ... his first reaction knowing that I was a vegan was that is just bad parenting. I found that funny... that a total non healthy meat eater person would say something in favor of vegans.

 

I let peeps know whats up! Vegans can be unhealthy if they choose to be or just healthy and ripped. Again Veganism is just plain awesome ... I was discussing this with my girlfriend the other day. Both of us agreed that it is such an amazing and powerful way to live. I LOVE It and IT is here to stay!

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THE BIG QUESTION HERE ...

 

Why do people eat meat?

Clogs your heart, causes all sorts of diseases, harms the environment and harms the animals. People love to label vegans crazy but I think killing animals and killing yourself with your own fork and knife is crazier. I sware this like the story of David and Goliath (as the story). Vegans are the small guy Non Meat eaters are Goliath. Look how mighty Goliath seemed... look how fast he fell.

 

People will find whatever way to justify eating meat and making vegetarianism look bad. It is not popular that is exactly why. My manager today called my food weird but tasted good. WHAT THE %$#&? She said I had strange food... And deep fried bird cut up into little nuggets covered in bread and batter and then doused with salt and chemicals is not strange food? That is just crazy. Chick fillet makes me sick

 

No one should try really fight people who say nonsense but prove to people like many here and let people know that your healthy let them see your energy. This is far more effective. I talked to my neighbor who is a smoker heavy drinker and eats fast food all day and when I told him about the article Death by veganism ... his first reaction knowing that I was a vegan was that is just bad parenting. I found that funny... that a total non healthy meat eater person would say something in favor of vegans.

 

I let peeps know whats up! Vegans can be unhealthy if they choose to be or just healthy and ripped. Again Veganism is just plain awesome ... I was discussing this with my girlfriend the other day. Both of us agreed that it is such an amazing and powerful way to live. I LOVE It and IT is here to stay!

 

Your right on there. Every animal proforms the best on there natural diet and also is there healthiest on there natural diet. I serious doubt that we have to choose between being protein def, not being able to keep up with meat eaters, but healthy and live a long time or Perform great, build muscle, feel great, but then die of heart disease and colon cancer

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WHEN Crown Shakur died of starvation, he was 6 weeks old and weighed 3.5 pounds. His vegan parents, who fed him mainly soy milk and apple juice, were convicted in Atlanta recently of murder, involuntary manslaughter and cruelty.
Yet even a breast-fed baby is at risk. Studies show that vegan breast milk lacks enough docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, the omega-3 fat found in fatty fish. It is difficult to overstate the importance of DHA, vital as it is for eye and brain development.

A baby should be fed with breast milk only and until it reaches the age of 1-2 years old. If a mother gives soy milk instead, or cow's milk, or fish or meat puree, that's just stupid. All mammals grow on milk of its kind for optimal health but the author claims that humans are the exceptions and that human milk is deficient !

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I just noticed that's not exactly what she says, but one thing is sure: a vegan mother that is not deficient will produce milk that is not deficient. I'm pretty sure breast milk from non-vegans contains much more heavy metals, PCB, and DDt such as in insecticides and pesticides. How many babies die from omnivorous parents, including those that are beaten, thrown against the wall, suffocated or choked ?

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In order to make popcorn you need a pot with a lid. If you have 5 pots but only 2 lids, you can only make popcorn with 2 pots.

 

Human bodies make protein out of 9 essential amino acids that have to be matched up with amino acids in particular proportions --- just like pots and lids.

 

Many plant foods do have all 9 essential amino acids, but not all 9 in meaningful ( balanced) quantities. A given plant may have 5 pots, but only 2 lids. That is *part* of the reason the protein in plants has a low biological value.

 

Protein complimenting, which the vegans who helped coauthor the ADA Position Paper on Vegetarianism strongly recommend to do over the course of a day, is based on the fact that while some plants are short on lids, other plants are short on pots. Combining these plants gets you more complete sets. Eaten together during the same day will get you more complete pot+lids and will enable you to make more popcorn.

 

A human body has *some* capacity to balance out the essential amino acid imbalances I am describing, but it is a limited capacity. Sooner or later a human body has to get the raw materials from somewhere.

 

Complimenting your proteins over the course of a day is fine for most people as a minimum. A minimum is not "optimum" -- especially for athletic people. If you want to make the most use out of the protein you eat you would want to complement (balance) the amino acids in every meal you eat:

 

1. legumes + whole grains

2. legumes + seeds

 

#1 is by far one of the best vegan combinations as legumes & whole grains are almost mirror images of each other for what they lack and are strong in. Seeds and nuts have far less optimal patterns of essential amino acids, so relying on those to get the best balance of amino acids ---- matching lids and pots is a lot harder. You may be able to eat enough to get the same total amount of amino acids, but your body will not be to use those amino acids to make as much protein.

Yes

 

...you are saying that a majority of plants are 5 pots with 0-2 lids. The reality is that they ALL have at least one lid, and a good amount of them have anywhere from 4 to 6 lids. That's a rough estimate but in the ballpark.

 

PDCAAS

whey (1.0)

egg white (1.0)

casein (1.0)

milk (1.0)

soy isolate (1.0)

beef (0.92)

soybean (0.91)

tubercules (0.74)

vegetables (0.74)

legumes (0.69)

kidney bns (0.68)

rye (0.68)

cereals (0.58)

wheat (0.54)

lentils (0.52)

peanuts (0.52)

seitan (0.25)

 

In fact, *most* veggie foods are .5 to .7, which is about 3 pots out of 5.

 

People really need to get over the fact that our body has developed to utilize meat proteins more than it has to utilize veggie proteins. Veggie proteins are INFERIOR to meat proteins. That's all there is. If people can't handle that, then they don't know what it means to be vegan anyway...

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Again those kinda of numbers are pure speculation on whats the best protein source. The best amino acid ratio for me maybe different for you or the next person. Of course the meat and dairly industry are going to fund studies that show meat/ dairy are needed for proper protein.

 

 

Basically what a couple vegans are saying here is that Humans are made to eat meat. IF that's the case then how would it be unethical to do something we're supposed to do? out side of factory farming of course. Why stop there, might as well put all carnavores on soy protein isolote and other soy products becasue that would be more ethical.

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Pure speculation? It's called science. PDCAAS is the best measurement we have today of determining human protein requirements and protein quality, it's not some random set of numbers that somebody just thought up.

 

And yes, humans have evolved to eat meat. This is simply irrefutable, and not up for debate. And the ethics question is a slippery slope argument, and it's something that omni's try to do to us all the time...

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Pure speculation? It's called science. PDCAAS is the best measurement we have today of determining human protein requirements and protein quality, it's not some random set of numbers that somebody just thought up.

 

And yes, humans have evolved to eat meat. This is simply irrefutable, and not up for debate. And the ethics question is a slippery slope argument, and it's something that omni's try to do to us all the time...

 

 

Saying humans evolved to eat meat is not backed by anything whatso ever. Have Humans been eatting it for a extremely long? for sure but that doesn't mean we've evolved to eatting it considering are amonmy doesn't support that claim. Not to mention there's a clear link between the amont of animal products people consume and there disease rate. that's like a cow having to limit it's grass intake or it gets cancer, but guess what you feed grains to livestock and they have diseases pop up.

 

AS far as Ethics go if Humans are supposed to eat meat then there would be nothing wrong with consuming it. Should we stop breathing also becasue the Gobal warming fear rakers tell us it's humans causing it and of course we're a carbon based life form that breaths out carbon? Or kill all cows on the planet becasue they fart Methane gas?

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It's funny how almost every thread about some aspect of nutrition eventually turns into bickering over protein and human evolution

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It's funny how almost every thread about some aspect of nutrition eventually turns into bickering over protein and human evolution

 

 

Shows how well the meat and dairy industried propaganda has worked, there's so much to nutrition and health yet a non vegan eatting fast food will be " Where do you get your Protein?" crazy even vegans buy into the animal products non sence from the very industry there supposed to be against.

 

Kinda like the so called Race Science the nazi's did, the jews would be like "i hate those blonde hair blue eyed aryan people, but it's a fact there's superior, look at the science!!"

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In fact, *most* veggie foods are .5 to .7, which is about 3 pots out of 5.

 

People really need to get over the fact that our body has developed to utilize meat proteins more than it has to utilize veggie proteins. Veggie proteins are INFERIOR to meat proteins. That's all there is. If people can't handle that, then they don't know what it means to be vegan anyway...

I don't care about numbers and my body dont give a shit neither, my body doesn't even know what a number is. The best protein for human body is not the one with a highest number its the one that allows the best digestion and absorption. We're not even supposed to drink cow's milk or eat dairy products so let's not talk about it, it causes diseases and/or cannot even be digested for most people. Meat is a superior protein if you're a tiger or lion, but if you're human plant-based foods are superior. Meat takes 4 hours to digest and most of its calories come from proteins that are being lost just to be utilized as calories to digest the rest of the meat! Besides, unless you like raw eggs and raw meat, you need to cook it, which destroys about 30% of some amino acids. What is the PDCAAS for foods with high quality raw proteins like avocado and fenugreek, alfafa and other sprouts, quinoa, hemp and so on, and why do you think its not in that list? I guess because the meat and dairy industry wouldn't like that. If meat is so superior why so many people feel like shit after eating meat, especially if they stopped eating it for few days/weeks, they feel heavy, slow, they sweat, fall asleep etc after eating just a small peice of meat again. Why do carnivore animals in general have a much shorter lifespan than herbivores and plants.

 

Pure speculation? It's called science. PDCAAS is the best measurement we have today of determining human protein requirements and protein quality, it's not some random set of numbers that somebody just thought up.
In case you didn't know already, science is often wrong. Actually, when science is wrong it shouldnt be called science but they call it like that anyway. It seems like science is your religion... Religion is always wrong; Science, often. Once they done a study they always speculate for trying to explain the results, and at the end they always write: more studies should be done soon to confirm, etc... But after like ten years they're still doing studies on chocolate, red wine and green tea. They've been telling us to drink one cup of wine each day and now they are saying even just one cup rises breast cancer risks by 30%, and even just one drop of any alcohol is carcinogenic. But it takes them all these years to discover this, while Shelton and others have been telling since the beginning that it is abnormal to drink alcohol, vinegar or eat salt. Shelton wrote: ''I am not "scientific" and in the present state of " science" I would be a fool if I were. I'd rather be right than to be " scientific". Now scientists are saying that green tea is healthier than water. There was an amazing article in the Globe & Mail few weeks ago but I can't find it online. It pointed out some of the conflicting statements scientists make, how they can say the exact opposite of what they were saying last year.

Fallen Horse, if you believe science is right, then how do you explain there's some 'scientists' claiming we should thrive on meat and fat while some others say just the opposite. If they would know how to use their brain and common sense instead of stubbornly use only 10% of their brain these things wouldn't happen.

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In fact, *most* veggie foods are .5 to .7, which is about 3 pots out of 5.

 

People really need to get over the fact that our body has developed to utilize meat proteins more than it has to utilize veggie proteins. Veggie proteins are INFERIOR to meat proteins. That's all there is. If people can't handle that, then they don't know what it means to be vegan anyway...

I don't care about numbers and my body dont give a shit neither, my body doesn't even know what a number is. The best protein for human body is not the one with a highest number its the one that allows the best digestion and absorption. We're not even supposed to drink cow's milk or eat dairy products so let's not talk about it, it causes diseases and/or cannot even be digested for most people. Meat is a superior protein if you're a tiger or lion, but if you're human plant-based foods are superior. Meat takes 4 hours to digest and most of its calories come from proteins that are being lost just to be utilized as calories to digest the rest of the meat! Besides, unless you like raw eggs and raw meat, you need to cook it, which destroys about 30% of some amino acids. What is the PDCAAS for foods with high quality raw proteins like avocado and fenugreek, alfafa and other sprouts, quinoa, hemp and so on, and why do you think its not in that list? I guess because the meat and dairy industry wouldn't like that. If meat is so superior why so many people feel like shit after eating meat, especially if they stopped eating it for few days/weeks, they feel heavy, slow, they sweat, fall asleep etc after eating just a small peice of meat again. Why do carnivore animals in general have a much shorter lifespan than herbivores and plants.

 

Pure speculation? It's called science. PDCAAS is the best measurement we have today of determining human protein requirements and protein quality, it's not some random set of numbers that somebody just thought up.
In case you didn't know already, science is often wrong. Actually, when science is wrong it shouldnt be called science but they call it like that anyway. It seems like science is your religion... Religion is always wrong; Science, often. Once they done a study they always speculate for trying to explain the results, and at the end they always write: more studies should be done soon to confirm, etc... But after like ten years they're still doing studies on chocolate, red wine and green tea. They've been telling us to drink one cup of wine each day and now they are saying even just one cup rises breast cancer risks by 30%, and even just one drop of any alcohol is carcinogenic. But it takes them all these years to discover this, while Shelton and others have been telling since the beginning that it is abnormal to drink alcohol, vinegar or eat salt. Shelton wrote: ''I am not "scientific" and in the present state of " science" I would be a fool if I were. I'd rather be right than to be " scientific". Now scientists are saying that green tea is healthier than water. There was an amazing article in the Globe & Mail few weeks ago but I can't find it online. It pointed out some of the conflicting statements scientists make, how they can say the exact opposite of what they were saying last year.

Fallen Horse, if you believe science is right, then how do you explain there's some 'scientists' claiming we should thrive on meat and fat while some others say just the opposite. If they would know how to use their brain and common sense instead of stubbornly use only 10% of their brain these things wouldn't happen.

 

 

Yeah good posts. If we eliminated all food that science says we shouldn't eat we'd be left with nothing

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In fact, *most* veggie foods are .5 to .7, which is about 3 pots out of 5.

 

People really need to get over the fact that our body has developed to utilize meat proteins more than it has to utilize veggie proteins. Veggie proteins are INFERIOR to meat proteins. That's all there is. If people can't handle that, then they don't know what it means to be vegan anyway...

I don't care about numbers and my body dont give a shit neither, my body doesn't even know what a number is. The best protein for human body is not the one with a highest number its the one that allows the best digestion and absorption. We're not even supposed to drink cow's milk or eat dairy products so let's not talk about it, it causes diseases and/or cannot even be digested for most people. Meat is a superior protein if you're a tiger or lion, but if you're human plant-based foods are superior. Meat takes 4 hours to digest and most of its calories come from proteins that are being lost just to be utilized as calories to digest the rest of the meat! Besides, unless you like raw eggs and raw meat, you need to cook it, which destroys about 30% of some amino acids. What is the PDCAAS for foods with high quality raw proteins like avocado and fenugreek, alfafa and other sprouts, quinoa, hemp and so on, and why do you think its not in that list? I guess because the meat and dairy industry wouldn't like that. If meat is so superior why so many people feel like shit after eating meat, especially if they stopped eating it for few days/weeks, they feel heavy, slow, they sweat, fall asleep etc after eating just a small peice of meat again. Why do carnivore animals in general have a much shorter lifespan than herbivores and plants.

 

 

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2231/kicard.gif

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I am laughing and laughing at the hands in palms in those photos and videos....I think it's a new trend online to use them as responses on forums......I've seen them a few times now.....that is all I have to say...just like those vids and photos.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzjbV-yTomY

 

And of course, the ultimate facepalm: http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/5/5f/Epic_Ultimate_Facepalm_of_Epicness.jpg/800px-Epic_Ultimate_Facepalm_of_Epicness.jpg

 

PS. Maybe some stuff doesn't have PDCAAS score since the tests are really expensive and marginal ingredients haven't been tested since hippies lack money to do such research.

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Yeah you guys are Right. The Vegan diet sucks for Human health, worse for athletes, poor protein quality, we're made to eat animal products and it has to be alot of it becase that plant protein sucks, but it is immoral to eat something that we're made to eat. The animal products give us colon cancer ect but that's just part of life, who wants to life that long anyways. That's a hard sell right there

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Yeah you guys are Right. The Vegan diet sucks for Human health, worse for athletes, poor protein quality, we're made to eat animal products and it has to be alot of it becase that plant protein sucks, but it is immoral to eat something that we're made to eat. The animal products give us colon cancer ect but that's just part of life, who wants to life that long anyways. That's a hard sell right there

 

http://www.failshare.com/uploads/fail/1222345894_shipment_of_fail.jpg

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And yes, humans have evolved to eat meat. This is simply irrefutable, and not up for debate. And the ethics question is a slippery slope argument, and it's something that omni's try to do to us all the time...

 

I really hate it when people say stuff like this, "it's not up for debate". Seems retarded to me since we do not know what we were evolved to eat so I would say it is very much up for debate.

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And yes, humans have evolved to eat meat. This is simply irrefutable, and not up for debate. And the ethics question is a slippery slope argument, and it's something that omni's try to do to us all the time...

 

I really hate it when people say stuff like this, "it's not up for debate". Seems retarded to me since we do not know what we were evolved to eat so I would say it is very much up for debate.

 

 

LOL yeah people are dieing of more and more diseases, meat eaters take smelly meat craps ect so there has to be a little bit of a debate. The Ego if this scientist to think they have it all figured out meanwhile they get the same problems that everyone gets.

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I thought I posted this earlier but I don't see it so I'll expand on my original thought.

 

Yes, isolated plant proteins are less suitable for our needs than isolated animal proteins. This should come as no surprise... that animal already did the work. They're animals, we're animals, no shit their muscular makeup and their food for their young (egg and milk) are close to what we are made of and what we need. I bet human muscle has a damn good profile as well. That doesn't mean that we did (or did not) evolve to eat these things.

 

We probably evolved to eat a little of both. Our lack of cellulolytic bacteria is pretty telling--it'd be pretty hard to eat solely vegan without agriculture. That doesn't mean that a good vegan diet isn't extremely healthy. We're losing sight of the forest for the trees.

 

The nonsense is the belief that most plant proteins are incomplete such that they are unusable, and that eating a variety of plants with different amino profiles isn't something we do by default. Yes it's important to eat a variety of things, but the idea that a good vegan diet as a whole is inferior is just false.

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