EXPLOITATION!!!

[aryan]

When I go shopping, I exploit the store. That is, I use the store to get things that I want for my own benefit as a result of my own greed. However, the store benefits. In fact, in a way the store could be said to be exploiting me, and exploiting my desire to own their products, in order to get their hands on my money. Similarly, anyone who has a cat or dog is exploiting that cat/dog. They are keeping him/her there only because they enjoy having a companion animal who loves them unconditionally and provides them with a steady stream of admiration and loyalty.

 

I hereby conclude that exploitation in and of itself is not unethical; it is only unethical if the exploited party is worse off as a result of it.

[Vegan Joe]

When I go shopping, I exploit the store. That is, I use the store to get things that I want for my own benefit as a result of my own greed. However, the store benefits. In fact, in a way the store could be said to be exploiting me, and exploiting my desire to own their products, in order to get their hands on my money. Similarly, anyone who has a cat or dog is exploiting that cat/dog. They are keeping him/her there only because they enjoy having a companion animal who loves them unconditionally and provides them with a steady stream of admiration and loyalty.

 

I hereby conclude that exploitation in and of itself is not unethical; it is only unethical if the exploited party is worse off as a result of it.

I'm kinda on the fence when it comes to pets, although I tend to believe vegan should avoid buying them. especially those requiring animals for food, don't own any except for the fish & tank I inherited from daughter when she moved.

But if someone saves an animal from being euthanized at the animal shelter, does that fit neatly in to you equation?

Is it somehow wrong for pet owners to provides their pets with a steady stream of admiration and loyalty?

[crypto]

lol, so one dimensional.

[Vegan Joe]

lol, so one dimensional.

Now there is some useful input.

[CollegeB]

I think you need to get your terminology straight. So you choose to go to the store, and you get what you want and you call that exploitation. Exploitation!?! A term generally used to describe situations in which a being is held captive and forced to perform tasks but is given little if any reward. And you see your situation as exploitation. You should get a hold of yourself ryan. And as for pets...I rescued my dog, it was going to be executed. Greedy me for wanting a perfectly good animal to be alive and to become a vegan no less. If feeding it and taking it out to get exercise and not giving a shit when it tears up my stuff is exploitation then you're a dolt.

[Guest]

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/4368/947454-nice_thread_psyche_super.png

 

Simplistic reasoning + use of redefined language = awesome.

 

It seems we're back to talking common sense vs. armchair shite.

[aryan]

When I go shopping, I exploit the store. That is, I use the store to get things that I want for my own benefit as a result of my own greed. However, the store benefits. In fact, in a way the store could be said to be exploiting me, and exploiting my desire to own their products, in order to get their hands on my money. Similarly, anyone who has a cat or dog is exploiting that cat/dog. They are keeping him/her there only because they enjoy having a companion animal who loves them unconditionally and provides them with a steady stream of admiration and loyalty.

 

I hereby conclude that exploitation in and of itself is not unethical; it is only unethical if the exploited party is worse off as a result of it.

I'm kinda on the fence when it comes to pets, although I tend to believe vegan should avoid buying them. especially those requiring animals for food, don't own any except for the fish & tank I inherited from daughter when she moved.

But if someone saves an animal from being euthanized at the animal shelter, does that fit neatly in to you equation?

Is it somehow wrong for pet owners to provides their pets with a steady stream of admiration and loyalty?

 

I don't think it's wrong at all. That's my point.

 

lol, so one dimensional.

 

In that case it should be very easy to refute. Go ahead. I'm waiting.

 

I think you need to get your terminology straight. So you choose to go to the store, and you get what you want and you call that exploitation. Exploitation!?! A term generally used to describe situations in which a being is held captive and forced to perform tasks but is given little if any reward. And you see your situation as exploitation. You should get a hold of yourself ryan. And as for pets...I rescued my dog, it was going to be executed. Greedy me for wanting a perfectly good animal to be alive and to become a vegan no less. If feeding it and taking it out to get exercise and not giving a shit when it tears up my stuff is exploitation then you're a dolt.

 

Exploitation: use or utilization, esp. for profit. My point is that just saying something is "exploitation" doesn't make it wrong, by using examples of things that people generally consider to be ethical (though there are disagreements). I'm not saying that shopping at a store is unethical, which is how you seemed to interpret it.

 

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/4368/947454-nice_thread_psyche_super.png

 

Simplistic reasoning + use of redefined language = awesome.

 

It seems we're back to talking common sense vs. armchair shite.

 

If my thread is "fail" then it shouldn't be very hard to refute what I've said. Yet YOU have "failed" to do that. Go ahead.

[Guest]

If my thread is "fail" then it shouldn't be very hard to refute what I've said. Yet YOU have "failed" to do that. Go ahead.

 

Sorry, but I just can't be arsed to even begin to argue this nonsense - there are tons of more productive and fulfilling things to do than waste my time discussing the plausibility of the notion that shops are being "exploited" by people, with someone on the internet. I also don't get involved in arguments over aliens, leprechauns, witches, astrology and unicorns - guess that's just because I'm unable to prove those who believe such things wrong. You can consider yourself the "winner" if you want to.

[crypto]

Sorry, but I just can't be arsed to even begin to argue this nonsense - there are tons of more productive and fulfilling things to do than waste my time discussing the plausibility of the notion that shops are being "exploited" by people, with someone on the internet. I also don't get involved in arguments over aliens, leprechauns, witches, astrology and unicorns - guess that's just because I'm unable to prove those who believe such things wrong. You can consider yourself the "winner" if you want to.

 

+1

[VeganEssentials]

If my thread is "fail" then it shouldn't be very hard to refute what I've said. Yet YOU have "failed" to do that. Go ahead.

 

Sorry, but I just can't be arsed to even begin to argue this nonsense - there are tons of more productive and fulfilling things to do than waste my time discussing the plausibility of the notion that shops are being "exploited" by people, with someone on the internet. I also don't get involved in arguments over aliens, leprechauns, witches, astrology and unicorns - guess that's just because I'm unable to prove those who believe such things wrong. You can consider yourself the "winner" if you want to.

 

Come on now, xzebrasx, you're saying that you don't wish to argue with someone who doesn't ever seem to want to listen to reason or facts? I mean, what BETTER things could you be doing than getting into a heated debate with someone who wants to justify their own choices for exploitation (raising chickens to eat "cruelty-free" eggs, paying to swim with captive dolphins, etc.) who gets put under pressure and then tries to make it out like everyone else here is the hypocrite? Sounds like my idea of a perfect way to spend an evening

[Im Your Man]

So buying stuff in stores is called exploitation - both the seller and buyer being exploited/exploiting the other ? Its not 'exploitation', its called trade and consumption, economy, service, etc... If the item being sold has been made by exploiting the workers, that's exploitation, but that's a different story. About the relationship between the store and the customer, one could say the store is the tyrant because they chose what they want to sell, and one could say its the client which is the tyrant because he chooses what to buy and what not to buy, or even to not enter the shop. If people boycott an item or store, the store may have to go bankrupt, so at the end the customer is always the ruler.

If you buy eggs in a grocery store, you are participating in an industry of slavery and murders that exploits chickens; if you buy and raise chickens to eat their eggs, that's called exploitation also, or if you go in zoos or pay to swim with dolphins, etc... If you go in the ocean and there is wild dolphins that come near you or your boat to swim along with you, that's not exploitation... unless you consider yourself being exploited by the dolphins which use you for their pleasure....

[aryan]

Well, have fun feeling superior. While you're sitting there pondering how much better you are than everyone else, I'll be enjoying me some hard boiled eggs!

[Vegan Joe]

Well, have fun feeling superior. While you're sitting there pondering how much better you are than everyone else, I'll be enjoying me some hard boiled eggs!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn_thFpDsiY

[Fallen_Horse]

Well, have fun feeling superior. While you're sitting there pondering how much better you are than everyone else, I'll be enjoying me some hard boiled eggs!

I'm now confused as to why you are on this site...

[VeganEssentials]

Well, have fun feeling superior. While you're sitting there pondering how much better you are than everyone else, I'll be enjoying me some hard boiled eggs!

I'm now confused as to why you are on this site...

 

Join the club!

[Im Your Man]

Well, have fun feeling superior. While you're sitting there pondering how much better you are than everyone else, I'll be enjoying me some hard boiled eggs!

Don't forget to drink milk and eat corpses too, so you can be even more inferior .

[VeganEssentials]

Well, have fun feeling superior. While you're sitting there pondering how much better you are than everyone else, I'll be enjoying me some hard boiled eggs!

Don't forget to drink milk and eat corpses too, so you can be even more inferior .

 

Obviously, following the concept of veganism without making excuses to allow consuming non-vegan items or participating in non-vegan events makes one morally superior. Didn't you get the memo on this?

 

Veganism is apparently only acceptable when we make excuses to indulge in that which contributes to cruelty. I mean, who would want to be inconvenienced on so many things? It's just some sort of quasi-religious dogma that's far too restrictive to adhere to. Of course, I just do it to feel superior - I mean, what other reason could there be for giving up so much?

[Vegan Joe]

Maybe he could raise Tofurkeys, I think their eggs are vegan? No?

[Duncan_Idaho]

Nice post, Aryan!

Now, let's think in our human way!

 

dictionary.com (a randomly chosen source) gives the following definitions:

EXPLOITATION: –noun

1. use or utilization, esp. for profit: the exploitation of newly discovered oil fields.

Ok, so exploitation means 'USE' - mainly (but not only) for profit. Let's check what 'USE' means.

USE: –verb (used with object)

1. to employ for some purpose; put into service; make use of: to use a knife.

 

Here's the key:

 

--- SERVICE/EMPLOY FOR PURPOSE ---

 

If you employ something for a purpose, you are bringing it down to the level of an object.

You let the store treat you like an object (consumer). The real consumer is your pet, so it is an object too.

Do we want to be objects?

Do we want to bring another living creature down to such level? I don't know about American law but in Bulgarian law animals are presumed to be objects. That's what we vegans have to change in this world, right? Service/slavery has to disappear.

The natural counterpart of service is symbiosis. Note that service can never be symbiosis.

 

So what to do?

 

When you buy food for your pet, make sure you bought it because you wanted to help your friend/feed your baby.

When you get a pet: Make sure it's going to be a good experience for both of you.

Friendship and symbiosis are allright, service isn't.

[thendanisays]

this thread is ridiculous. aryan, if you dont want to be vegan, then that is your choice. ethics are unique from person to person. being vegan is often times inconvenient in this culture-in fact just the other day i was enjoying some buffalo style tofu nuggets when i realized that the sauce i was using had "natural butter flavorings". that was it. done eating. it was a mistake, i'm not gonna beat myself up over, but as soon as i was aware, i stopped because those are my ethics. some people would say it was unethical to throw away the food (which it probably is). I composted it, but whatever. My point here is, we do the best we can with what we've got. You do what you feel. If you feel like you would own chickens and love them and have a mutual relationship, then fine. no one can make you do otherwise, but its not vegan by definition alone.

 

 

Ethics, like the rest of things in life, are not black and white.

 

Decisions are yours and yours only to make. Do what youre going to do, but please, PLEASE stop trying to justify what youre going to do because you are making some stretches here with your logic and making yourself look foolish. We have several lacto/ovo vegetarians on this board and we support them because they are here to listen, learn, ask questions, give feedback, etc. but to come to a place for vegans and twist logic around to justify your actions is just silly. you do not need our approval.

 

only you know what is right for your life.