RAINRA Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) Protein ... whmm where does it come from? How do I replace the meat? Seems like a variety of foods is not good enough. I think we keep thinking that one food as protein is the only way to get all essential amino acids. Check your orange juice box. You will see even OJ has protein. Eat a variety of foods even if you don't have beens or nuts you can still get your amino acids. Is it easier to get it through high protein sources... ummm not really. Some proteins take a lot of energy to breakdown so the foods with bio available amino acids are the best sources. So... what you need is AMINO ACIDS ... we require 8 essential amino acids which comes eating a variety of foods. Amino acids are the structural units that make up proteins. They join together to form short polymer chains called peptides or longer chains called either polypeptides or proteins. Every cell in the body is comprised of proteins. Amino acids are the chemical substances that make up protein. Our bodies use 22 amino acids to make the 50,000 different proteins we must have to be healthy. Humans can produce 10 of the 20 amino acids. The others must be supplied in the food. Failure to obtain enough of even 1 of the 10 essential amino acids, those that we cannot make, results in degradation of the body's proteins—muscle and so forth—to obtain the one amino acid that is needed. Unlike fat and starch, the human body does not store excess amino acids for later use—the amino acids must be in the food every day. The 10 amino acids that we can produce are alanine, asparagine, aspartic acid, cysteine, glutamic acid, glutamine, glycine, proline, serine and tyrosine. Edited November 7, 2009 by RAINRA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAINRA Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 THIS IS THE SIMPLE WAY TO LOOK IT THAT eat PROTEIN > breakdown AMINO ACIDS > then AMINO ACIDS build back -----> Build human PROTEIN THE PANCREAS SECRETES PEPSIN to break down protein bonds and later and enzyme called trypsin. So at the end your body will not use protein as is. It requires energy and enzymes to breakdown those strong protein bonds. So try if your worried about your protein think to just look at food and not how many milligrams of protein your missing. Eat right workout right and maybe these myths of protein only will fade. Around 49% of the caloric value of spinach comes from the plant proteins. Not all amino acids are present but eat a variety of foods you will get all your aminos!!!!! BASICALLY ONE DOES NOT NEED TO CONSUME MEAT, OR BEANS OR TOFU EVERY DAY TO GET YOUR DESIRED AMINO ACIDS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazios2002 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Yeah I agree she is a little off. But she is trying . I just dont know how many people are going to make the jump with her limiting them to soy and beans. It is a big vegan world out there. LOL She is so old I hate to pick her apart. Usually when people get that old they dont care what they eat cause they feel they have lived long enough. I remember that bit with George Constanza and his I think aunt and uncle . LOL Good post Rainra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Dude you should really read through your posts before you submit them if you want anyone to learn anything from them. we require 8 essential amino acids which comes eating a variety of foods. Our bodies use 22 amino acids to make the 50,000 different proteins we must have to be healthy. Humans can produce 10 of the 20 amino acids. The others must be supplied in the food. Honestly I don't even know that the point of your post was in the first place. Who gives a fuck about what the lady in that video says? I fell asleep after 5 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAINRA Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Johanx I expected you to post... for some reason. (friendly) you make me laugh . I meant 8 essential meaning we don't produce those. Which me must get from food. I am not a expert writer. My post was to say that protein is just a means in which we get our amino acids. And that we can get it from eating a variety of whole foods. We don't have to eat beans and tofu to get them. Thats all. Hows it all goin over there in Europe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnb222 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I agree that we don't essentially have to eat soy products, beans, and the like for protein.. but they very helpful to a vegan bodybuilder, due to the fact they are high in amino acids compared to other plant based foods. And yes, all of the other foods, excluding animal products, are optimal to consume because they contain certain amino acids that are necessary for optimal health, that the legume family doesn't have. Like take hemp for an example, it an excellent whole food to add to a diet to add a whole variety of different amino acids, that the legume family lacks. Yes, I believe in the fact which RAINRA stated is that should eat a wide variety of foods to get all of the essential amino acids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnb222 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 The teacher states that need a complete protein combination for every meal. I have read somewhere that we don't need all essential amino acids with every meal; that the human body has the ability to function optimally without complete proteins for every meal. The teacher is very knowledgeable about vegetarianism/veganism though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcina Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Dude you should really read through your posts before you submit them if you want anyone to learn anything from them. we require 8 essential amino acids which comes eating a variety of foods. Our bodies use 22 amino acids to make the 50,000 different proteins we must have to be healthy. Humans can produce 10 of the 20 amino acids. The others must be supplied in the food. Honestly I don't even know that the point of your post was in the first place. Who gives a fuck about what the lady in that video says? I fell asleep after 5 seconds. Yeah, good idea. Tear down and insult everyone who disagrees with you or doesn't have perfect grammar. It's the best way to show how much smarter you are than everyone else isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Johanx I expected you to post... for some reason. (friendly) you make me laugh . I meant 8 essential meaning we don't produce those. Which me must get from food. I am not a expert writer. I know you're not and neither am I. The thing is/was that this could have been a helpful post for some but if I would have read it without knowing anything about essential and non-essential amino acids I would have been more confused. You write with a passion and that's good but try and just read through the text before you submit it. It would really be beneficial for all of us I think. My post was to say that protein is just a means in which we get our amino acids. And that we can get it from eating a variety of whole foods. We don't have to eat beans and tofu to get them. Thats all. This is true even though I think beans and tofu is excellent for vegan athletes and bodybuilders. Many native people around the world get by really nice eating just starchy veggies, regular veggies and fruit. Some with just whole grains and veggies etc. You actually don't even need to eat a variety. The teacher states that need a complete protein combination for every meal. I have read somewhere that we don't need all essential amino acids with every meal; that the human body has the ability to function optimally without complete proteins for every meal. Yeah you got it right. There is really no evidence to recommend protein combining for "normal" inactive people. John Mcdougall and Jeff Novick have written articles about this that are great. However to maximize protein synthesis after a meal you need all the essential amino acids. Not that you have to do it to build muscle but I thinks it's pretty smart to do so. The combinations are tasty anyway, I mean legumes + whole grains is win and legumes + nuts/seeds is epic win. Yeah, good idea. Tear down and insult everyone who disagrees with you or doesn't have perfect grammar. It doesn't seem like a good idea to me, not at all actually, it's sounds more like a real stupid idea. This isn't about who disagrees with me but rather who writes posts that are in conflict with science. The vegan and bodybuilding scene is flooded with faulty information about nutrition and training and even though you might think that is okay I simply don't. Here in this post I gave some constructive critisism to Rainira. Could I have been more friendly? Yes. Could I have been meaner, more arrogant etc? Yes. I think that Rainira, as I wrote above, is really passionate about nutrition/training/health and it's great. But it would be even better if he provided correct information in the posts that he submits. It's the best way to show how much smarter you are than everyone else isn't it? I know it rubs you in a uncomfortable way when I'm right and you're wrong but as long as you're going to base your physiological advice on what you've read on a blog and how you personally feel you should get used to it and stop being so moody.FYI, your post was totally off topic and you could easily have sent me a PM instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAINRA Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 Look I want to make it clear for everyone. My writing is not the best specially cause I always had different challenges with writing. I had learning disabilities and this partially to me moving around so much changing schools in 3 different laguages at a young age. I struggled with writing my whole life. I had to have tutors in school always even learning specialist to help me get through the work. My older sister had the same issues because we were in the same situation. So I will write the best I can. My main conflict with writing and most of my teachers have told me through out school was that I had good ideas but I never was really able to put them down well on paper. I guess that happens sometimes even when I speak. It may seem like I go around in circles before saying what I mean to say. So my apologies for not getting the point across. I think now the point is understood. - Wish everyone well! PS: I appreciate everyone here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcina Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Johanx I expected you to post... for some reason. (friendly) you make me laugh . I meant 8 essential meaning we don't produce those. Which me must get from food. I am not a expert writer. I know you're not and neither am I. The thing is/was that this could have been a helpful post for some but if I would have read it without knowing anything about essential and non-essential amino acids I would have been more confused. You write with a passion and that's good but try and just read through the text before you submit it. It would really be beneficial for all of us I think. My post was to say that protein is just a means in which we get our amino acids. And that we can get it from eating a variety of whole foods. We don't have to eat beans and tofu to get them. Thats all. This is true even though I think beans and tofu is excellent for vegan athletes and bodybuilders. Many native people around the world get by really nice eating just starchy veggies, regular veggies and fruit. Some with just whole grains and veggies etc. You actually don't even need to eat a variety. The teacher states that need a complete protein combination for every meal. I have read somewhere that we don't need all essential amino acids with every meal; that the human body has the ability to function optimally without complete proteins for every meal. Yeah you got it right. There is really no evidence to recommend protein combining for "normal" inactive people. John Mcdougall and Jeff Novick have written articles about this that are great. However to maximize protein synthesis after a meal you need all the essential amino acids. Not that you have to do it to build muscle but I thinks it's pretty smart to do so. The combinations are tasty anyway, I mean legumes + whole grains is win and legumes + nuts/seeds is epic win. Yeah, good idea. Tear down and insult everyone who disagrees with you or doesn't have perfect grammar. It doesn't seem like a good idea to me, not at all actually, it's sounds more like a real stupid idea. This isn't about who disagrees with me but rather who writes posts that are in conflict with science. The vegan and bodybuilding scene is flooded with faulty information about nutrition and training and even though you might think that is okay I simply don't. Here in this post I gave some constructive critisism to Rainira. Could I have been more friendly? Yes. Could I have been meaner, more arrogant etc? Yes. I think that Rainira, as I wrote above, is really passionate about nutrition/training/health and it's great. But it would be even better if he provided correct information in the posts that he submits. It's the best way to show how much smarter you are than everyone else isn't it? I know it rubs you in a uncomfortable way when I'm right and you're wrong but as long as you're going to base your physiological advice on what you've read on a blog and how you personally feel you should get used to it and stop being so moody.FYI, your post was totally off topic and you could easily have sent me a PM instead. I just don't find it helpful to act like an ass just because you disagree with someone. It's not about me being wrong and you being right. It's about you being a jerk all the time whenever someone's post isn't "perfect". Get over yourself. Am I moody? Maybe. Probably because I'm sick of you putting people down left and right to make yourself look better. That's the definition of a bully. Yeah, I could have sent you a PM, but I'd rather get it out in the open because I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this way. Quit being such a forum nazi. Are you a mod? No. If you wanna be one, go start your own forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I just don't find it helpful to act like an ass just because you disagree with someone. It's not about me being wrong and you being right. It's about you being a jerk all the time whenever someone's post isn't "perfect". Get over yourself. Am I moody? Maybe. Probably because I'm sick of you putting people down left and right to make yourself look better. That's the definition of a bully. Yeah, I could have sent you a PM, but I'd rather get it out in the open because I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this way. Quit being such a forum nazi. Are you a mod? No. If you wanna be one, go start your own forum. Me "acting like an ass" is simply stating facts. You are the one acting like an ass towards me because I'm correcting your errors. If you go back and look at our discussion in the "How do you loose the body fat?"-thread you will see that my first post was exactly like your first (which was my intention). In your second post you start acting a bit weird and removing focus from the actual subject with comments like So this is a debate about how "qualified" everyone is to state their opinion? Which I never said or implied. The first ass move I do is in my fourth post when I write that what you are saying doesn't make sense (which btw I stand by cause it doesn't). Before I write that horrible horrible thing you wrote kind of insulting things like "Durrrrr" at the end of your post which implies that you think I'm stupid. You also wrote "Not everyone can do ridiculous things like try to gain muscle with no food in their system.", and again I never ever said or implied that everyone could go 16+ hours of fasting and then work out but it isn't a ridicolous thing at all. It's very healthy and works great for many people. The you go on writing "I guess I need to talk in simpler terms since nobody seems to get what I'm saying." which was never an issue. The terms you were using was very easy to understand but your logic wasn't. In that post you both imply that you are sooo smart (and you're not) and that everyone else who doesn't agree with you is sooo stupid (and we're not). After all of that I write my "Maybe that's because it doesn't make any sense.".Holy crap Marcina, I was really an ass. You on the other hand you're a great debater that treats everyone with respect . The way you were acting is the defenition of a stupid asshole that can't accept she's not always right. Stop being such a PMS nazi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazios2002 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Johan screib: "Me "acting like an ass" is simply stating facts. You are the one acting like an ass towards me because I'm correcting your errors. If you go back and look at our discussion in the "How do you loose the body fat?"-"[ Now I am interested in that thread too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcina Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I just don't find it helpful to act like an ass just because you disagree with someone. It's not about me being wrong and you being right. It's about you being a jerk all the time whenever someone's post isn't "perfect". Get over yourself. Am I moody? Maybe. Probably because I'm sick of you putting people down left and right to make yourself look better. That's the definition of a bully. Yeah, I could have sent you a PM, but I'd rather get it out in the open because I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this way. Quit being such a forum nazi. Are you a mod? No. If you wanna be one, go start your own forum. Me "acting like an ass" is simply stating facts. You are the one acting like an ass towards me because I'm correcting your errors. If you go back and look at our discussion in the "How do you loose the body fat?"-thread you will see that my first post was exactly like your first (which was my intention). In your second post you start acting a bit weird and removing focus from the actual subject with comments like So this is a debate about how "qualified" everyone is to state their opinion? Which I never said or implied. The first ass move I do is in my fourth post when I write that what you are saying doesn't make sense (which btw I stand by cause it doesn't). Before I write that horrible horrible thing you wrote kind of insulting things like "Durrrrr" at the end of your post which implies that you think I'm stupid. You also wrote "Not everyone can do ridiculous things like try to gain muscle with no food in their system.", and again I never ever said or implied that everyone could go 16+ hours of fasting and then work out but it isn't a ridicolous thing at all. It's very healthy and works great for many people. The you go on writing "I guess I need to talk in simpler terms since nobody seems to get what I'm saying." which was never an issue. The terms you were using was very easy to understand but your logic wasn't. In that post you both imply that you are sooo smart (and you're not) and that everyone else who doesn't agree with you is sooo stupid (and we're not). After all of that I write my "Maybe that's because it doesn't make any sense.".Holy crap Marcina, I was really an ass. You on the other hand you're a great debater that treats everyone with respect . The way you were acting is the defenition of a stupid asshole that can't accept she's not always right. Stop being such a PMS nazi. No, you're right. I'm sorry. I've been a total bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAINRA Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 I do agree some people just like to make people know they are wrong or like to correct people. I just post and if people like than great if not than correct me. I don't mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcina Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Quite honestly I don't like how Johan treats some people on here, he's quite abrasive. But at the same time it was wrong of me to be a jerk to him. He's a smart guy and knows his stuff, but the way he words things can be kind of offensive. In the thread he's talking about, I got upset because I thought he was treating me like I was "stupid". I sent him a PM to apologize but I think he blocked me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I have not blocked anyone. I never meant to come off as abrasive but I don't like to dilly dally around something. My posts are meant to be constructive and not hostile, not friendly either to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seitan_man Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I think both johan and marcina can be rude and overly harsh on people. Most striking statement so far on this thread: The vegan and bodybuilding scene is flooded with faulty information about nutrition and training Don't we know it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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