Feminism And PETA

[Ryofire]

I briefly skimmed threw this article and found it....well interesting. The reason I read this is because my friend is a feminist herself, and we had an interesting conversation with each other about feminists and animal rights.

 

http://www.feministing.com/cgi-bin/movabletype/mt-search.fcgi?search=PETA&IncludeBlogs=2&limit=20

[Vegan Joe]

I think more feminist should be exposed.

[Ryofire]

I think more feminist should be exposed.

 

I have to agree with you to some degree.

 

For starters I don't like how some PETA members say, "you can't name your team "The Tigers" because it's offensive towards tigers." Whenever I hear those kind of ridiculous comments, I always keep in mind songs like "Eye of the Tiger" by Survivor, or "Huginn (thought) and Muninn (memory)," the two ravens from Asatru/Norse Mythology. So therefore it's a way of honoring them like saying, your as "strong as an ox" or "your as nimble as a cat." What sucks is when people say, "your an animal, you belong in a zoo," or the ever popular "your as dumb as a turkey."

 

In regards to feminism, since I'm a guy who's also vegan, I can't say too many negative things about feminism. Do I believe women are mistreated in our society? Yes, I would hope everyone hear would believe that, however men are mistreated just as much. Still two wrongs don't make a right, but what I don't like is when people become too politically correct about things. Especially in the article where it showed the billboard, "Save the whales. Lose the Blubber, go vegetarian." I know that's something that's really controversal, but people need to stop being such wimps.

 

Although those who are overweight/obese are what we call "fat," and as someone who was once overweight, I know first hand how hard it is to loose weight and keep it off for that matter. When it comes to weight loss/reducing body fat, it's more complex than simply eating less and exercising more. However some people go too far with glorifying being overweight/obese. I hope someone understands what I mean by that?

[chrisjs]

You have to be kidding that men are mistreated as much as women, sure gender roles affect us all, but sexism is way, way on the side against women.

 

Feministing is a particularly hardline feminist blog. A huge part of sexism involves the enforcement of traditional gender roles. When individuals are pressured to act within these roles, it's clearly sexist. A lot of feminists demonize the mere existence of these roles and tend to react negatively whenever someone endorses something that fits that role, as if it's a sign of oppression. They seem to act like they know better than you do, that even if you think you are doing something freely, if it fits within the popular gender role, then it's sexist.

 

You see this particularly come out with the objection to the "I'd rather go naked" campaigns. I think they have two main problems with these, one that it reinforces the way a woman should look and two it turns her into a sexual object. I don't personally agree with this, I don't think it's necessarily misguided for a woman to embrace the popular view of beauty and I think an individual has the right to objectify themselves. I give them the benefit of doubt that they are aware of who they are and are not being coerced into such action.

 

I do find their campaigns like the one that pictured the pubic hair flowing out of the underwear to be extremely sexist. While I see the similarities between this and the "I'd rather go naked" campaign, there's a few things that differentiate them in my mind. Primarily, this one takes a completely negative approach to beauty, implying that the natural state of affairs--if you would--is gross in the same vein as wearing animal fur. I think this actually works in reverse from what they intended, rather than saying wearing fur isn't trendy, they're actually equating pubic hair fashion with animal murder. This is nuts.

 

I went vegan partly due to information from peta, but I don't see how being *so* offensive helps them. I don't think that any publicity is good publicity.

[Marcina]

You make very good points, Chris.

 

As a woman, I find it tougher to find a decent job. There's still a wage gap between men and women with men getting paid more.

Not only that but sexual abuse, and harassment happens to women waaay more than it happens to men. The sad part is that most women are too humiliated an/or ashamed to report it.

[xjohanx]

Very well written chrisjs! It pretty much agree with it all.

I have problems with both Peta's way of doing things and the feminist campaigns.

The feminists are always defensive and you can't say anything that doesn't go along with their opinion because they will attack you, but who can blame them? This is a mans world.

Peta does good stuff for the animals but always forget or sometimes uses the fact that people will take offense to what they are doing, but who can blame them? They lack B12 and protein, shit like that makes you crazy.

[djshrew]

You make very good points, Chris.

 

As a woman, I find it tougher to find a decent job. There's still a wage gap between men and women with men getting paid more.

Not only that but sexual abuse, and harassment happens to women waaay more than it happens to men. The sad part is that most women are too humiliated an/or ashamed to report it.

 

The occurrence of sexual abuse and harassment (including domestic violence or crimes) among men is actually a bit higher than is thought. Unfortunately it often goes unreported because doing so would not be seen as "the manly way" to behave. which is a damn shame!

 

As far as Peta's campaigns. I think their stupid anyhow. they tend to use people who, besides fur, don't really give a crap about the movement. Celebrities, for an example, who I'm more than sure wear silk gowns or ties and leather shoes...

I consider myself a feminist (but I think it is important to fight for the rights of both genders!). But I don't really have that much against these campaigns. I think there are bigger things to fight about. you need to pick your battles, you know? I'd rather just roll my eyes at any peta campaign.

[Ryofire]

You make very good points, Chris.

 

As a woman, I find it tougher to find a decent job. There's still a wage gap between men and women with men getting paid more.

Not only that but sexual abuse, and harassment happens to women waaay more than it happens to men. The sad part is that most women are too humiliated an/or ashamed to report it.

 

The occurrence of sexual abuse and harassment (including domestic violence or crimes) among men is actually a bit higher than is thought. Unfortunately it often goes unreported because doing so would not be seen as "the manly way" to behave. which is a damn shame!

 

As far as Peta's campaigns. I think their stupid anyhow. they tend to use people who, besides fur, don't really give a crap about the movement. Celebrities, for an example, who I'm more than sure wear silk gowns or ties and leather shoes...

I consider myself a feminist (but I think it is important to fight for the rights of both genders!). But I don't really have that much against these campaigns. I think there are bigger things to fight about. you need to pick your battles, you know? I'd rather just roll my eyes at any peta campaign.

 

Well said. I actually made a thread regarding Male domestic abuse viewtopic.php?f=25&t=18611 and the double standards between male and female sexual harrassment viewtopic.php?f=25&t=18543.

 

I agree with you when you say "they tend to use people who, besides fur, don't really give a crap about the movement." Charlize Theron is one of those people. She has this reputation of her being this "hot" and "sexy" actress in hollywood. I'll admit she played an awesome role in "Mighty Joe Young," but when I saw her in an interview on Conan O'Brien I lost all respect for her. Conan was talking to her about how everyone sees her as the perfect woman. She said that she disagreed. She says she has this obssesive personality and in her own words she said, "I'm not crazy OCD though." As someone who has lived with Aspergers his whole life, I know what it's like to live with obssesive traits, and high levels of anxiety, that are similar to OCD.

 

So to get back on subject of the subject of PETA and sexism. Women like Charlize Theron try to put on a mask of false pride and glory by convincing themselves they're great people when really they're ignorant bimbos. They claim that they are "doing things for a good cause," when really they could absolutly care less. That's what I think is the real problem is and not the whole thing about nudity and showing the human body.

 

I think honestly it would work better if both genders of all different shapes and sizes participated in the campaign. That way it wouldn't seem so sexist. I know I would much rather be naked than wear fur

[djshrew]

they have used men in the past (Steve-O and Gonzalez, for example). But they do use more women than men. (like most ad campaigns)

 

As far as Charlize Theron. I'm not really familiar with her work or her as a person. As someone who has (and still somewhat, it's gotten SO much better) suffered from OCD. It's a pretty rude comment and she should think a bit more before she speaks, but it's unlikely that it was a jab at people with OCD.

[Ryofire]

they have used men in the past (Steve-O and Gonzalez, for example). But they do use more women than men. (like most ad campaigns)

 

As far as Charlize Theron. I'm not really familiar with her work or her as a person. As someone who has (and still somewhat, it's gotten SO much better) suffered from OCD. It's a pretty rude comment and she should think a bit more before she speaks, but it's unlikely that it was a jab at people with OCD.

 

Charlize Theron was in the movie "Hancock" with Will Smith. Even if wasn't "a jab at people with OCD" she should still, like you said, "think a bit more before she speaks."

 

The nudity doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me is the actors, actresses, models and etc who partake in the campaign. The reason being because most of them really don't give a flying fuck about the cause. They just want to claim they're doing something good because they do ego gymnastics to convince themselves they're great people when really they're douchebags.

[chrisjs]

...when really they're ignorant bimbos.

You're insulted because she said "crazy OCD" and you think using the term bimbo is acceptable? I don't see how anything she said motivates losing all respect for her.

[Ryofire]

...when really they're ignorant bimbos.

You're insulted because she said "crazy OCD" and you think using the term bimbo is acceptable? I don't see how anything she said motivates losing all respect for her.

 

It's not a good thing to be a bimbo and further more OCD, and any other neurological behavior disorder doesn't go away, no matter who says it. It can be treated and dealt with in so that levels such as anxiety and depression aren't as bad, but they do not go away.

 

As I said before, as someone who has Aspergers I too have obbsessive traits that can lead to high levels of anxiety and depression. I have certainly got much better at it, but it is most certainly not fun to have.

 

By saying "I'm not crazy OCD," Charlize Theron said it in a way of a joke. Let me tell you first hand Aspergers, Autism, OCD, Parkinsons, Tourettes and any other neurological disorder are no laughing matter. Even if Charlize Theron actually has OCD she still should be ashamed of herself for saying that.

[Marcina]

I think what she meant was that she's not "crazy OCD" as in, she's not full-blown OCD. She has some obsessive traits, but wouldn't classify herself as someone who has the disorder.

 

Yeah, she could have picked her words better, but some people just have verbal diarrhea and let anything slip out! It sounds bad, but they don't mean it to.

 

Like that joke "What's long and hard and full of seamen?" What do most people think of? Lol!

[Ryofire]

I think what she meant was that she's not "crazy OCD" as in, she's not full-blown OCD. She has some obsessive traits, but wouldn't classify herself as someone who has the disorder.

 

Yeah, she could have picked her words better, but some people just have verbal diarrhea and let anything slip out! It sounds bad, but they don't mean it to.

 

Like that joke "What's long and hard and full of seamen?" What do most people think of? Lol!

 

Of course, but just because someone has, an offical diagnosis of OCD it doesn't make them a bad person. Charlize Theron acts like it's a bad thing to be someone with OCD. It's a struglle and a challenge yes. I know first hand living with Aspergers that it does not go away. It can be dealt with. It's a neurological disorder and the neurological system, and the brain for that matter, is not the persons soul (or "whole being" for those of you who are non religious or atheist). It is a part of the body and like any other part of the body it too has it's malfunctions and advantages, as well as disavantages, just like the liver, the intestines, the legs and etc.

 

So when you make fun of those who struggle neurologically you might as well be making fun of those who are paraplegic. Or to be more politically correct I should say mobility impared (I hope that's right). It's simply not only an act of ignorance, but cowardness as well.

[Marcina]

I think we've trailed off topic just a little bit..

[chrisjs]

So when you make fun of those who struggle neurologically you might as well be making fun of those who are paraplegic.

I think I missed where she made fun of anyone. I interpret crazy in that context to mean "extremely."

[Ryofire]

So when you make fun of those who struggle neurologically you might as well be making fun of those who are paraplegic.

I think I missed where she made fun of anyone. I interpret crazy in that context to mean "extremely."

 

I highly doubt Charlize Theron was trying to be politically correct, when she said crazy.

[Marcina]

I don't think she was trying to be rude or insult anybody.

 

Sometimes words just slip out. People just give celebrities a harder time because they're always in the spotlight.

[VeganEssentials]

As someone who has struggled with OCD my entire life, I'm not offended by Charlize's statement. People use bad wording all the time (much like how it was pointed out that "bimbo" is offensive to some, which is a word used here earlier), so take it with a grain of salt in that people's lack of best wording isn't always meant to be offensive, sometimes it's just a less-than-ideal way of putting things.

[djshrew]

As someone who has struggled with OCD my entire life, I'm not offended by Charlize's statement. People use bad wording all the time (much like how it was pointed out that "bimbo" is offensive to some, which is a word used here earlier), so take it with a grain of salt in that people's lack of best wording isn't always meant to be offensive, sometimes it's just a less-than-ideal way of putting things.

 

well said and +1

[Ryofire]

As someone who has struggled with OCD my entire life, I'm not offended by Charlize's statement. People use bad wording all the time (much like how it was pointed out that "bimbo" is offensive to some, which is a word used here earlier), so take it with a grain of salt in that people's lack of best wording isn't always meant to be offensive, sometimes it's just a less-than-ideal way of putting things.

 

well said and +1

 

Well I disagree, but I respect your opinion.

[Ryofire]

 

My girlfriend showed me this (she's a feminist). The only porblem I have with it is people like Kloe Kardashian who only pose for the publicity. She wears fur coats on her own time.

[seitan_man]

Question is, can a man be a feminist?

[chrisjs]

Question is, can a man be a feminist?

Why not?

[Richard]

Yeah there are male feminists. I tend to say that I am "for equality", because "feminist" seems to carry a connotation that one values women above men, that women are superior in some way, which I don't think is true. I think it makes more sense, in terms of language, to say that you're for equality, if that's what you want. I think gender roles and all that stuff are a load of bollocks, and people should be treated as individuals, not as sections of society based on their gender.