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Is This guy Full of Crap? or just after your money


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He is trying to sell you on something that he claims will revolutionize your gains, so always beware people that promise you something that they claim to hold the secrets to.

 

Not that I'm saying it can't be a decent program (I haven't seen the details, so I don't know what he's instructing people to do diet/training-wise), but it's probably nothing that you can't find on your own from other sources, and is probably based on 99% elementary information. Programs like this are typically geared toward people who are either just getting into training, or, people who have never bothered to research proper training and diet and have thought that doing endless push-ups will build a massive, ripped physique from head to toe

 

If there weren't millions of people who were under-educated in proper training and diet, there wouldn't be a new gadget or training program every week that claims miraculous results. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people get their information from bad sources, memory of what they heard from some "credible" source in the past, etc., which is why most people get minimal gains for progress in achieving the physique they want. Some things aren't bad, but again, most everything anyone could ever need to know to get the best results is what can be found for free online. But, people want glitter, dazzle and convenience, so they'd prefer to spend $200 on a program that swears you'll be competing in the Mr. or Mrs. Olympia in 8 weeks, rather than taking a few weeks to study and process the information that's readily available if they're willing to do the work. But, if that were something that were an accepted fact, it would break the industry wide open, and nobody like this guy could sell you on a program that claims it'll be the best you'll ever use!

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Thanks but I am not after your money.

 

So not all are like this.

 

I don't mind someone providing a service and asking for a reasonable fee if the service is worthy but I wondered about this website.

 

It seems awfully suspect.

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It's probably just like the thousand other sites out there that have similar things for sale. If you have doubts, then by all means, don't buy into it.

 

By the way, I did a bit of simple math to check the lucrative potential of selling such a system -

 

Claim of 20,000 people "helped" via his program, with current pricing at $264.75 for the initial package (I'm not even going to touch the $49.95/month for his other stuff). Total amount, $5,295,000.00 in product sold. Divide that by the 8 years he notes that he's been "helping people", and you get a pretty tidy sales figure of $661,875.00 per year. Again, I didn't even factor in monthly fees for the extras and all the other stuff. Even with printing costs, etc., I'd be quite happy if I could simply throw out a package deal and make $400k/year or so as a fitness "guru". Claiming to be able to help everyone get in shape is big business, and you have to stand out to make the big bucks, hence all these testimonials of people making progress that's either at the top of the potentail, or, making outlandish statements where it's claimed that so-and-so lost 30 lbs. of fat and gained 15 lbs. of muscle in 8 weeks. That's a load of rubbish, but people fall for it. It's slick salesmanship for what's probably a mediocre program, nothing more.

 

Again, there's probably a lot of info in there that's useful to people who have no grasp on diet or training, but if the claims were universal for everyone who used it, that guy would be a billionaire and we'd all be bowing down to his shrine right now. Since that isn't the case, I'll just call it one more program in a sea of hype that doens't pay off the returns it says it will give.

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It's probably just like the thousand other sites out there that have similar things for sale. If you have doubts, then by all means, don't buy into it.

 

By the way, I did a bit of simple math to check the lucrative potential of selling such a system -

 

Claim of 20,000 people "helped" via his program, with current pricing at $264.75 for the initial package (I'm not even going to touch the $49.95/month for his other stuff). Total amount, $5,295,000.00 in product sold. Divide that by the 8 years he notes that he's been "helping people", and you get a pretty tidy sales figure of $661,875.00 per year. Again, I didn't even factor in monthly fees for the extras and all the other stuff. Even with printing costs, etc., I'd be quite happy if I could simply throw out a package deal and make $400k/year or so as a fitness "guru". Claiming to be able to help everyone get in shape is big business, and you have to stand out to make the big bucks, hence all these testimonials of people making progress that's either at the top of the potentail, or, making outlandish statements where it's claimed that so-and-so lost 30 lbs. of fat and gained 15 lbs. of muscle in 8 weeks. That's a load of rubbish, but people fall for it. It's slick salesmanship for what's probably a mediocre program, nothing more.

 

Again, there's probably a lot of info in there that's useful to people who have no grasp on diet or training, but if the claims were universal for everyone who used it, that guy would be a billionaire and we'd all be bowing down to his shrine right now. Since that isn't the case, I'll just call it one more program in a sea of hype that doens't pay off the returns it says it will give.

 

 

Thanks I value your opinion.

 

Your calculations are pretty good.

 

The question I wondered was OK how do we know these testimonials are his or true. Yes the photos are one thing but can one ever really know?

 

What is your opinion of good free sources for maximum results for weight training?

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Thanks I value your opinion.

 

Your calculations are pretty good.

 

The question I wondered was OK how do we know these testimonials are his or true. Yes the photos are one thing but can one ever really know?

 

What is your opinion of good free sources for maximum results for weight training?

 

There's no way to know what testimonials are true and what aren't. Looking over them, SOME seem possible, but the bulk are outright exaggerations. As it goes, there's no restriction on testimonial claims needing evidence for someone to put them out there, so of course, programs like this can do what they'd like as far as saying outlandish things. They can't prove them, we can't disprove them (except for knowing by the numbers which things are physically impossible to accomplish in such a time frame without steroids, etc.), so they're free to put that stuff out there any way they'd like. Of course, it's not honest, and in time it may lead to more regulation in the fitness industry, so it's a pretty bad practice.

 

Of course, some of the more drastic photos of improvements don't have a listed time frame for how long they took to accomplish them. You don't know if it was 3 months or 3 years to get there. And again, you don't know what they used to get to that point (there was controversy in the past for other physique transformation challenge competitons where people who made drastic results quickly were found to have been using steroids the entire time to accelerate their progress). You'll never know how long any of them had been training until they may have tried a program, if they've even trained with weights before. Of course, your level of experience will affect how quickly you can progress - a person getting into a good training and diet program for their first program ever will see much better results than they will, say, 5 years down the road if they train consistently over that period. There are so many factors to consider, you just never will know what's for real and what is total BS, so never rely on the hype for determining what you may ultimately get out of any program like this.

 

I haven't done a lot of research online in years for good sites for training info, so I'm out of the loop as far as what sites are the better resources these days. I'm sure others can chime in better for this, but keep in mind the simple rule for training sites - if they're trying to sell you on a book, program, supplement, etc. as being integral to your making the best progress, it's probably a load of crap and should be avoided. There are some sites where there will, of course, be things for sale, but if they're not pushing them as necessities, then you're on the right track. People need to make their money somehow, so you'll find sites for people who are excellent resources who do have seminars and books and such, but they'll give out plenty of general info for free, and those are the sites you'll want to check out!

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I'll chime in here. Check out stronglifts.com. It's an in-depth, no-nonsense site with lots of information. It's all free too, though later I'd recommend investing in Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. They both follow the same principles of strength/barbell training, but SS is more thorough as far as the lifts go. Take one of those programs, add a caloric surplus, and you will get bigger and stronger.

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I'll chime in here. Check out stronglifts.com. It's an in-depth, no-nonsense site with lots of information. It's all free too, though later I'd recommend investing in Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. They both follow the same principles of strength/barbell training, but SS is more thorough as far as the lifts go. Take one of those programs, add a caloric surplus, and you will get bigger and stronger.

 

 

Thanks love the avatar by the way.

 

Kind of lord of the rings feel to it.

 

I will check that out.

 

Do you guys feel that with time the concept of bodybuilding has changed or are the basics always the same and the rest are gimmicky.

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Glad to see some recommendations!

 

Speaking of Rippetoe, I hadn't seen this quote of his before, but I'm considering changing it to be my new signature:

 

"There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a pussy."

- Mark Rippetoe

 

 

 

 

Interesting quote.

 

When I was in the army it was the same thing we got in shape because when we got down and dirty of course the leverage of do or get duty was another motivating factor.

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I'll chime in here. Check out stronglifts.com. It's an in-depth, no-nonsense site with lots of information. It's all free too, though later I'd recommend investing in Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. They both follow the same principles of strength/barbell training, but SS is more thorough as far as the lifts go. Take one of those programs, add a caloric surplus, and you will get bigger and stronger.

 

 

Spent some time on the 5X5 site very well done and I love the links as a reference to the excercises.

 

Thanks for taking the time to chime about this.

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Do you guys feel that with time the concept of bodybuilding has changed or are the basics always the same and the rest are gimmicky.

 

Bodybuilding has evolved in many ways over the decades (not always in a good way), but the essences of it will always remain the same. Train hard AND intelligently, get the necessary nutrition and plenty of rest, keep stress levels low, etc...those are all factors that have been constant regardless of whether you're talking about this moment or 100 years ago. Unfortunately, along with the progress and science that have made it easier to progress at a more rapid rate, there's been a ton of junk to go with it, which only makes things more confusing by making the core of bodybuilding seem less than effective compared to the junk. Not to say that there isn't a lot of good that's come out in the past decade as far as things that can be of benefit, but if people like Bill Pearl, John Grimek and others were able to build massive, powerful physiques 50 years ago with simple training programs, simple equipment and simple diets with minimal or no supplements beyond maybe some protein powders and a multi-vitamin, then it goes to show how much crap there is out there. Where there's a chance to make a dollar or make a name for yourself, the snake oil salesmen will be there, and we've been in that era for a long time now. Keep it simple, don't stress too much complexity until the simple things are no longer as effective, and good things will happen!

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Do you guys feel that with time the concept of bodybuilding has changed or are the basics always the same and the rest are gimmicky.

 

Bodybuilding has evolved in many ways over the decades (not always in a good way), but the essences of it will always remain the same. Train hard AND intelligently, get the necessary nutrition and plenty of rest, keep stress levels low, etc...those are all factors that have been constant regardless of whether you're talking about this moment or 100 years ago. Unfortunately, along with the progress and science that have made it easier to progress at a more rapid rate, there's been a ton of junk to go with it, which only makes things more confusing by making the core of bodybuilding seem less than effective compared to the junk. Not to say that there isn't a lot of good that's come out in the past decade as far as things that can be of benefit, but if people like Bill Pearl, John Grimek and others were able to build massive, powerful physiques 50 years ago with simple training programs, simple equipment and simple diets with minimal or no supplements beyond maybe some protein powders and a multi-vitamin, then it goes to show how much crap there is out there. Where there's a chance to make a dollar or make a name for yourself, the snake oil salesmen will be there, and we've been in that era for a long time now. Keep it simple, don't stress too much complexity until the simple things are no longer as effective, and good things will happen!

 

Wow Bill Pearl haven't heard that name in a long time.

 

I agree with your intelligent posts.

 

What I do find in my gym which I started over 2 months ago is the bizarre things I see people doing to try to become more fit.

 

I remember 15 years ago it was pretty basic but now it seems to be more confusing and gimmicky.

 

You mentioned progress at a rapid rate is this as a result of the equipment available or the knowledge of the importance of rest etc.?

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Wow Bill Pearl haven't heard that name in a long time.

 

I agree with your intelligent posts.

 

What I do find in my gym which I started over 2 months ago is the bizarre things I see people doing to try to become more fit.

 

I remember 15 years ago it was pretty basic but now it seems to be more confusing and gimmicky.

 

You mentioned progress at a rapid rate is this as a result of the equipment available or the knowledge of the importance of rest etc.?

 

I've always been a big fan of Pearl, so that's why I chose to use him as a reference for my example He was big AND strong, and apparently, still is in fantastic condition for his age to this day and trains regularly (I'm sure his changing to a vegetarian diet has had a lot to do with this ) But, he was from an era where strength AND health were intertwined, where now people gladly sacrifice health just to speed up progress, which goes against what many of the old-timers believed in.

 

Things are definitely more gimmicky now. When you could simply do barbell squats and build massive, powerful legs, you can now find a huge assortment of leg training machines in any gym that won't do as much, but they're a lot easier to train on than working hard with an extremely effective movement like squats. People want something flashy and want to get more for doing less, and that's what many pieces of equipment and many gimmicks promise, but don't deliver on. Many people who get into lifting think about it too much, get confused, fall for the "easy" way out because it's more attractive, and are eventually discouraged by the lack of progress. That's why keeping it simple is best - a guy who wants to build massive legs doesn't need to worry about isolating his quads, he needs to focus on stimulating the most muscle fiber in the most effective manner (again, using squats as an example), but that's not as fun as sitting on that shiny new leg extension machine over in the corner

 

Without a doubt, there are developments over the past few decades that have helped to speed up progress because they do work. And conversely, there were bad machines, bad routines, and bad supplements long ago as well, so it wasn't all perfect in the past. Wading through the junk to find the good stuff is getting tougher because the junk seems to be outweighing quality info by a huge ratio and gets worse as time goes on. I don't think that a progression in equipment has had a huge impact on our ability to get results more quickly - I attribute it more to science in the way of training programs and optimal nutrition, which has a lot more room for improvement over trying to find a new way to get better results via an exercise for a specific body part. As far as I can tell, powerlifting is about the only sect of weight training where new equipment has seemed to actually do good for helping people progress, while in bodybuilding the addition of new machines and such only gets people further away from the basics that have always worked well.

 

I could go on about this for hours, but I'm hoping to get out of the office before the sun comes up, so I'll have to save the rest of my rantings for tomorrow!

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Wow Bill Pearl haven't heard that name in a long time.

 

I agree with your intelligent posts.

 

What I do find in my gym which I started over 2 months ago is the bizarre things I see people doing to try to become more fit.

 

I remember 15 years ago it was pretty basic but now it seems to be more confusing and gimmicky.

 

You mentioned progress at a rapid rate is this as a result of the equipment available or the knowledge of the importance of rest etc.?

 

I've always been a big fan of Pearl, so that's why I chose to use him as a reference for my example He was big AND strong, and apparently, still is in fantastic condition for his age to this day and trains regularly (I'm sure his changing to a vegetarian diet has had a lot to do with this ) But, he was from an era where strength AND health were intertwined, where now people gladly sacrifice health just to speed up progress, which goes against what many of the old-timers believed in.

 

Things are definitely more gimmicky now. When you could simply do barbell squats and build massive, powerful legs, you can now find a huge assortment of leg training machines in any gym that won't do as much, but they're a lot easier to train on than working hard with an extremely effective movement like squats. People want something flashy and want to get more for doing less, and that's what many pieces of equipment and many gimmicks promise, but don't deliver on. Many people who get into lifting think about it too much, get confused, fall for the "easy" way out because it's more attractive, and are eventually discouraged by the lack of progress. That's why keeping it simple is best - a guy who wants to build massive legs doesn't need to worry about isolating his quads, he needs to focus on stimulating the most muscle fiber in the most effective manner (again, using squats as an example), but that's not as fun as sitting on that shiny new leg extension machine over in the corner

 

Without a doubt, there are developments over the past few decades that have helped to speed up progress because they do work. And conversely, there were bad machines, bad routines, and bad supplements long ago as well, so it wasn't all perfect in the past. Wading through the junk to find the good stuff is getting tougher because the junk seems to be outweighing quality info by a huge ratio and gets worse as time goes on. I don't think that a progression in equipment has had a huge impact on our ability to get results more quickly - I attribute it more to science in the way of training programs and optimal nutrition, which has a lot more room for improvement over trying to find a new way to get better results via an exercise for a specific body part. As far as I can tell, powerlifting is about the only sect of weight training where new equipment has seemed to actually do good for helping people progress, while in bodybuilding the addition of new machines and such only gets people further away from the basics that have always worked well.

 

I could go on about this for hours, but I'm hoping to get out of the office before the sun comes up, so I'll have to save the rest of my rantings for tomorrow!

 

I appreciate your rants

 

I appreciate the old timers in the book Arnolds Shwarzenegers Enclyopedia which I still have almost 20 years later the Photos of the columbo, zanes.etc. are fascinating.

 

For those that may not know about Bill I figure I would post the following

 

http://www.vegetarianwomen.com/articles/bill_pearl.html

 

Bill still gets up regularly at 3:00 a.m. to train six days a week,

 

Funny on what the main url is. Oh well.

 

Not to go off here but I have increased by regiment to 6 days now to see how things are because of this I am in the gym more often so I get to see things more often as well.

 

I do notice the same guys doing the same machines all the time and what is amazing to me is the way people move the weight like they are on a stop watch and the more you swing the weight the better I guess.

 

After a long absence from the gym I am amazed at how the gym at least in my area has changed in regards to the type of training that goes on.

 

Not sure if I am correct but the leg extensions just by the nature of the machine would seem to be more harmful to the knees then doing squats properly.

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In that original site Vince mentions the following

 

the twelve anabolic targets of bodybuilding that make up the Maximize Your Muscle system.

 

I have no clue what he is typing about is it but another gimmick?

 

I have not heard any other person say such things and I use to read a lot of the older stuff awhile ago.

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Not sure if I am correct but the leg extensions just by the nature of the machine would seem to be more harmful to the knees then doing squats properly.

 

Which is very true, but somehow, the "get more for doing less" crowd has convinced too many people that squats will ruin their knees, even though it's a natural movement compared to leg pressing, leg extensions, etc. People don't want to do what's challenging yet effective, they want to sit on a padded seat, watch the TV in the corner, and carry on a conversation with the person next to them. That's what a leg extension machine is made for

 

In that original site Vince mentions the following

 

the twelve anabolic targets of bodybuilding that make up the Maximize Your Muscle system.

 

I have no clue what he is typing about is it but another gimmick?

 

I have not heard any other person say such things and I use to read a lot of the older stuff awhile ago.

 

What he is showing in the 12 points isn't really too much hype, but he's making things sound overly complex, as if there's something magical necessary to cover all the factors in the 12 points. That's the part that's hype - it's not as complicated to make progress as he's alluding to, and you don't need to take all those factors into consideration for designing an effective program (not to mention, you'll be covering multiple "points" in the list just by doing, say, a set of squats, and you'll never even know it ) Using squats for example again, you're going to induce hypertrophy for muscle growth by doing them (there's always debate on the ideal set/rep scheme for optimal hypertrophy for each person, but that's a different thread in and of itself), and you're going to increase muscle density via squats as well, covering point #2. And you will be training and taxing your central nervous system by squatting as per point #3....you get the picture He's good at making this sound far too complicated, and yet, in all these points, there's no mention of the factors including ideal nutrition for recovery and growth and other important factors. But, the big words that make people "oooh" and "aaahhh" are what sells, so he chooses to make things look complicated to dazzle those who don't know, and that's when the money comes rolling in.

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Not sure if I am correct but the leg extensions just by the nature of the machine would seem to be more harmful to the knees then doing squats properly.

 

Which is very true, but somehow, the "get more for doing less" crowd has convinced too many people that squats will ruin their knees, even though it's a natural movement compared to leg pressing, leg extensions, etc. People don't want to do what's challenging yet effective, they want to sit on a padded seat, watch the TV in the corner, and carry on a conversation with the person next to them. That's what a leg extension machine is made for

 

In that original site Vince mentions the following

 

the twelve anabolic targets of bodybuilding that make up the Maximize Your Muscle system.

 

I have no clue what he is typing about is it but another gimmick?

 

I have not heard any other person say such things and I use to read a lot of the older stuff awhile ago.

 

What he is showing in the 12 points isn't really too much hype, but he's making things sound overly complex, as if there's something magical necessary to cover all the factors in the 12 points. That's the part that's hype - it's not as complicated to make progress as he's alluding to, and you don't need to take all those factors into consideration for designing an effective program (not to mention, you'll be covering multiple "points" in the list just by doing, say, a set of squats, and you'll never even know it ) Using squats for example again, you're going to induce hypertrophy for muscle growth by doing them (there's always debate on the ideal set/rep scheme for optimal hypertrophy for each person, but that's a different thread in and of itself), and you're going to increase muscle density via squats as well, covering point #2. And you will be training and taxing your central nervous system by squatting as per point #3....you get the picture He's good at making this sound far too complicated, and yet, in all these points, there's no mention of the factors including ideal nutrition for recovery and growth and other important factors. But, the big words that make people "oooh" and "aaahhh" are what sells, so he chooses to make things look complicated to dazzle those who don't know, and that's when the money comes rolling in.

 

 

Thanks interesting point you mentioned about squats. I see so many different attempts at this I see the dudes who stack up the weights and barely are able to bend there knees because of it then I see the ones who put so little weight that I wonder if the are just stretching?

 

I do find if one is doing squats technique is very important.

 

about comment on tv and equipment.

 

I do find it interesting that just as in the Grocery stores the areas of importance such as fruits and veggies are taking up less space and more junk food is taking up more space. Just like the gym the important free weights is being taken over by the junk gimmicks.

 

I agree I would love to know what his nutrition stance is because I know of some gimmicks that can make you look bigger but you will pay a price down the road.

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I have read some of Vinces stuff and I can start to understand his market.

 

Young guys who have low self esteem and want a quick fix.

 

Here is one of his videos

 

 

I do notice that may of his testimonials are younger teenagers it doesn't take much at that age to notice results faster.

 

He forgets to share that

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