Guest Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Beans cannot be found growing in the wild. They've been selectively hybridized over aeons, and contain indigestible proteins that cause inflammation. Grains, too, have indigestible proteins, and also runaway sugar. Humans haven't evolved to eat grass, and neither the seeds of grass.The farming of hybridized monocrops is the hidden most environmentally destructive practice on Earth today. We vote in the art of the way we live by what we purchase. Vote for a sustainable future. I got this off lukecummoforum.I still eat grains and beans but try to limit them. johan loves joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Okay LloydMetcalfe, please provide me with some scientific research that shows legumes raising inflammatory biomarkers. And the abstract I posted above shows that humans did use grass seeds during the stone age, we even used refined ones. Instead of just saying the opposite how about providing us with some proof for your claims.Whole grains have been shown in numerous studies to decrease inflammation and protect against disease so your "indigestible protein"-theory doesn't seem to hold up much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medman Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Vegan Joe and xjohanx are absolutely right. Beans do exist in nature. Nothing about the protein in legumes is indigestible - I see terms like "indigestible" and "inflammatory" thrown around a lot by people who don't actually seem to know what protein digestions means, how it occurs, or frankly what "inflammation" means and the mechanisms by which is occurs in the body. The only way for a protein to be "indigestible" is if pepsin, trypsin, and chymotrypsin (your main proteases found in the stomach and pancreatic juice) can't hydrolyze it. The only thing about beans that is indigestible is the fiber - which is by definition, indigestible carbohydrate (cellulose). The only inflammation that has ever been shown in response to eating grains occurs in people with celiac sprue. In this case, yes, there is genuine inflammation of the small intestine. These people account for somewhere around 1% of the population. LloydMetcalfe, I don't mean to offend, but I feel you might be falling prey to the "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing" effect. Like eating less giving the gut "more chance to make B12". You CANNOT and WILL NOT absorb any B12 made by bacteria in your intestines, unless you're eating your own feces. The mechanism of B12 absorption is complex, and involves things like Intrinsic Factor, which is made in the stomach - so anything made at "the end of the line" is missing many essential pieces of the equation for absorption. Also - to argue that we "didn't evolve eating grass" but reference a site that encourages eating 30 bananas a day...modern cultivated varieties of bananas are FAR less "natural" than any of the plants you argue against - they don't even produce functional seeds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubby2112 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 And a study supporting the most important question about foods: not what did people eat in the past, but what foods are actually proven to be the most health promoting? The anthropology of food is interesting and can give some leads towards health promotion, but there are far better ways to show what is healthful. Legumes: the most important dietary predictor of survival in older people of different ethnicities. Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2004; 13(Suppl):S126. Blackberry I ; Kouris-Blazos A ; Wahlqvist ML ; et al. Legume or bean intake recurs as an important variable promoting long life. The conclusions of an important longitudinal study shows that a higher legume intake is the most protective dietary predictor of survival amongst the elderly, regardless of their ethnicity in multiple cohorts or populations studied. The study found legumes were associated with long-lived people in various food cultures such as the Japanese (soy, tofu, natto, miso), the Swedes (brown beans, peas), and the Mediterranean people (lentils, chickpeas, white beans). Generally, all these diets are based primarily on grains, tubers and legumes. Fruits generally constitute an incredibly small portion of traditional Okinawan and rural Chinese diets, some of a longest lived and healthiest populations in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen_Horse Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Beans are healthy. This should not be a debate. Second healthiest foods behind veggies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Joe Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Sometimes I love you VJ.Thanks Bubba, I'm actually a secret admirer of yours. I like to read your posts and have great respect for/of your knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Also - to argue that we "didn't evolve eating grass" but reference a site that encourages eating 30 bananas a day...modern cultivated varieties of bananas are FAR less "natural" than any of the plants you argue against - they don't even produce functional seeds! Now you're making shit up.Luke's diet is free of bananas LOL.How did you come up with that?I think we can produce b12 in the gut without eating shit.Were primates.I don't really care about the bean and grain thing.Some say yes, some say no.I can find research saying soy causes cancer, i can find research saying soy prevents cancer.Raw vegans must all be on the brink of death then because they don't take a b12 supplement.Which is bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Joe Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 runaway sugarDo you mean simple sugars vs complex sugars? Or this book? http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3179/1155/1600/blood%20sugar.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Joe Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Raw vegans must all be on the brink of death then because they don't take a b12 supplement.You can not speak for all Raw vegans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I'm not speaking for them, i'm just stating the obvious.There not dying or sick.Their bodies make b12.Stomach flora. I don't know what they mean by ranaway sugars.I copied it from here: http://forum.lukecummo.com/viewtopic.php?t=2865 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medman Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Now you're making shit up.Luke's diet is free of bananas LOL.How did you come up with that?I think we can produce b12 in the gut without eating shit.Were primates.I don't really care about the bean and grain thing.Some say yes, some say no.I can find research saying soy causes cancer, i can find research saying soy prevents cancer.Raw vegans must all be on the brink of death then because they don't take a b12 supplement.Which is bullshit. Sorry, forgive me for assuming that a website called "30 bananas a day - The Low Fat, High Vibe Lifestyle!", with bananas plastered all over its banner, was advocating that people should eat bananas. If the diet is anti-banana, they sure picked an odd spokes-fruit. Scientific literacy is a key issue - there are lots of papers saying soy is bad, but I have yet to find one that is convincing and properly designed/properly referenced, etc. Vegan Joe is right - there are raw vegans who make sure they get B12. As our community has discussed many times - B12 deficiency takes years and years to develop, and even longer to manifest symptomatically. And yes, any vegan who has no dietary source of B12 for all that time will run into problems. And as we have mentioned before, B12 IS made in the gut, but is not absorbed because it circumvents the normal route by which B12 absorption occurs in the body. You could easily go without B12 for years without "running into problems", so you can't point to a non-supplementing vegan who has been doing it for 5 years and say "See? He hasn't gone blind yet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Joe Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I'm just stating the obvious.How long is it that he average raw vegan stays on a raw vegan diet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sift to the seven Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 my resources on the caloric restriction diet are http://cr.timtyler.org/ and http://www.rawmatt.com/(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhBJDlbASpM) and this guy is amazing to me Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Now you're making shit up.Luke's diet is free of bananas LOL.How did you come up with that?I think we can produce b12 in the gut without eating shit.Were primates.I don't really care about the bean and grain thing.Some say yes, some say no.I can find research saying soy causes cancer, i can find research saying soy prevents cancer.Raw vegans must all be on the brink of death then because they don't take a b12 supplement.Which is bullshit. Sorry, forgive me for assuming that a website called "30 bananas a day - The Low Fat, High Vibe Lifestyle!", with bananas plastered all over its banner, was advocating that people should eat bananas. If the diet is anti-banana, they sure picked an odd spokes-fruit. Scientific literacy is a key issue - there are lots of papers saying soy is bad, but I have yet to find one that is convincing and properly designed/properly referenced, etc. Vegan Joe is right - there are raw vegans who make sure they get B12. As our community has discussed many times - B12 deficiency takes years and years to develop, and even longer to manifest symptomatically. And yes, any vegan who has no dietary source of B12 for all that time will run into problems. And as we have mentioned before, B12 IS made in the gut, but is not absorbed because it circumvents the normal route by which B12 absorption occurs in the body. You could easily go without B12 for years without "running into problems", so you can't point to a non-supplementing vegan who has been doing it for 5 years and say "See? He hasn't gone blind yet." When did i mention that site?I said LUKECUMMOFORUM, fuck.I just knocked some dude out that was carrying a knife in the street.What have any of you done that even compares to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I just looked through my post's and i never mentioned any other site than lukecummoforum.You got some problems man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeganEssentials Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 http://suprememastertv.com/featured/Jericho-Sunfire--Transitioning-to-Breatharianism.html Why even debate these things when we all KNOW that we shouldn't even bother eating? I'm going to get my B-12 from a nice session of deep inhaling. And, I'll live to be 500 years old - if the origin of this thread is on the mark, if I don't eat, I won't die for a long, long time. Get on the bandwagon, guys - you're all living in the past, discussing nutrition like this! It's been an entertaining read here, if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubby2112 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Since anecdotal evidence seems to be of higher value than hard science, keep this in mind: TC Fry was killed by an embolism. Test results at his death showed almost undetectable levels of b12. Low b12 causes high levels of homocysteine in the blood and can lead to cardiovascular issues. He believed that a natural hygienist diet provided all the body needs and didn't take supplements. As far as getting b12 from feces, chimps and gorillas are sometimes observed consuming feces. They also consume soil, and consistently consume small amounts of insects. Occasionally, they consume small animals. Shawn pointed out the thirty bananas a day website, Medman just got you two confused. And what does knocking out a guy who was holding a knife have to do with starches and b12? But the point is moot anyway, since we only need air and sunshine, as VE pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Joe Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA6YXuagiuU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medman Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 cubby2112 is right, when going through the messages, shawn's sounded so consistent that I thought they were from the same person as lloyd. As for whether anyone on this board can compare their life's accomplishments to knocking out knife-wielding people in the street...this board is full of people with incredible accomplishments and accolades to their name. Don't go disparaging this diverse group of incredibly talented and disciplined vegans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen_Horse Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I don't agree with Lloyd here, but I doubt this kind of criticism is going to help anyone learn anything.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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