I read it on the internet so it must be true!

[medman]

I agree. In fact, I'm going to stop giving medication in the back of the ambulance. Let's see how many living patients I bring to the hospital.

 

Obviously, you shouldn't be bringing them to the hospital at all. They were doing just fine where they were.

[Rob PMFF]

I agree. In fact, I'm going to stop giving medication in the back of the ambulance. Let's see how many living patients I bring to the hospital.

 

Obviously, you shouldn't be bringing them to the hospital at all. They were doing just fine where they were.

 

[Im Your Man]

Medman, my opinion is that there's no useful medecine because only the body has the power to cure, the self-healing power.

 

There are people who are cured every day from things they would have died of or would have led a much lower quality of life if not for the intervention of medicine.

Dude, you are entirely wrong, and I don't know if you know it, but... you use different words... The people treated with modern traditional medecine are not 'cured', as you pretend, they are treated. They are on treatments, with pills and drugs, that they swallow each morning of their life. They are still sick, maybe even more. Perhaps other deseases will appear because of these treatments and they will die of it or take even more pills. Someone with a pacemaker is not cured, not the person taking anti-cholesterol after eating bacon and eggs, but this person would be cured if she would eat kiwis and oranges instead of her sausages.

Some surgeries save lives that's for sure. But the problems that ask for surgeries did not appear like magic, everything has a cause. If its a road accident ok, but if the person was making the wrong choices concerning her health, and bad habits, there are consequences, and medecine will not save her from her destiny, because medecine is not magic, there are some rules in life and nothing, especially not some doctors, can make miracles, except maybe god... if you believe in it. The person with cancer that lives 50 more years thanks to modern science, it is not because of this, it is because the person must have changed her lifestyle during or after the treatments. Because treatment is what it is: it treats, it does not cure. Remember that.

The lower quality of life you're talking about are there for a reason. Changes in lifestyle always bring changes in quality of life and health.

 

The doctors think they can cure cancers and AIDS, but they cannot even cure flue ! They don't really understand it neither, there's still different theories as why flues occur more often during cold seasons.

[VeganEssentials]

The people treated with modern traditional medecine are not 'cured', as you pretend, they are treated. They are on treatments, with pills and drugs, that they swallow each morning of their life. They are still sick, maybe even more. Perhaps other deseases will appear because of these treatments and they will die of it or take even more pills. Someone with a pacemaker is not cured, not the person taking anti-cholesterol after eating bacon and eggs, but this person would be cured if she would eat kiwis and oranges instead of her sausages.

 

So, when my father-in-law had a heart attack that resulted in a quadruple-bypass to save his life at the last minute with no time for other options, I guess that it just didn't make any difference. I mean, he may still be alive 15 years later, and may be getting healthy checkups since then (despite not being raw or vegan), but I guess that it would have been better to give him an orange and kiwi transfusion instead and have hoped for a true "cure" in that it would have cleaned out his arteries in a short span to save his life.

 

IYM, you have some strange thoughts on medicine. But, I have noticed through the past years that the raw movement tends to shun traditional medicine to incredible lengths without a lot of valid reasoning, so I'm not surprised by your reaction.

 

There is a middle road - take care of yourself, HOPE that you never need to use traditional medicine unless necessary (no offense to the medical guys ), but take advantage of it when it is a necessity and time is of the essence.

 

No, taking pills to lower your cholesterol is not a "cure", but if you have a person whose health depends on lowering it AND there's no way they're going to eat optimally, it's better than nothing if it may prolong their life. And for the hundredth time I'll use it as an example, with my eye condition, I could have either used modern medicine to combat my disease (as I chose to do), or, hoped for a miracle by going raw, avoiding treatments and keeping my fingers crossed. While I have had to endure side effects from my treatments, it assured me I wouldn't lose any more vision. There's no guarantee that a raw diet would have done anything, and I even did go mostly raw for a bit, and it didn't impact my condition whatsoever (I still needed to do frequent treatments back then every 10 weeks). So why would someone gamble solely on diet and faith when perhaps a two-tiered attack of diet AND medicinal treatments can be effective?

 

But, I've said this whole thing before, and you never responded with anything that made sense for an answer. I guess I shouldn't be holding my breath now, eh?

[Rob PMFF]

 

There is a middle road - take care of yourself, HOPE that you never need to use traditional medicine unless necessary (no offense to the medical guys ), but take advantage of it when it is a necessity and time is of the essence.

 

Well, you're right. The vast majority of people I pick up on emergency calls have generally destroyed their bodies to some extent with the way they have chosen to live. It may sound callous, but since becoming a Paramedic, I no longer pity people for their medical issues, regardless of the severity. I've learned that more often than not, an adult's health issues are a result of something that they did. Yes there's genetics, yes there's things like asbestos that no one knew about when it was "en vogue", but really? It's poor diet, alcohol/tobacco, and sedentary lifestyle more than other causes. But does that mean we should just let them die? I suppose not. Modern medicine improves their quality of life that they didn't take into consideration when they were "living on the edge".

[medman]

Ryan and Rob both make very good points.

 

I will add another response for you to think about, IYM - what you're describing as never being "cured" are chronic conditions, which by definition, don't go away! What about acute conditions? From gonorrhea to gastroenteritis, peptic ulcer disease to Guillain–Barré syndrome, there are countless conditions which ARE cured by allopathic medicine. Add to this the number of self-limiting but deadly conditions (like acute respiratory distress syndrome, or viral encephalitis) which require "supportive care". In these cases, the treatment (like putting someone on a ventilator or ECMO for ARDS) is not a "cure", but allows the person to survive long enough to heal.

 

And here's something else to think about...let's say you're an active person, playing squash, running 5k in the morning, eating well every day of your life. There may come a time when your knees are riddled with osteoarthritis from having been used so much. If you get your knee replacement surgery, you could be the only 70 year-old on the tennis court vs hobbling around the backyard in pain instead. And knee replacement surgery is indeed considered "curative" for osteoarthritis in that joint - it will never, ever be coming back

[beforewisdom]

Dude, you are entirely wrong, and I don't know if you know it, but... you use different words...

 

Dude...., you are the one playing word games.

 

I've had medical problems in my life, got medical treatment and now those problems are gone. I don't take any prescriptions or do any therapies to maintain those results.

 

Period.

 

It happens every day to other people too.

[Cold Fission]

 

No, taking pills to lower your cholesterol is not a "cure", but if you have a person whose health depends on lowering it AND there's no way they're going to eat optimally, it's better than nothing if it may prolong their life.

 

It's a sad day when someone won't eat fruit to save their own life.

 

Earth Crisis quote:Those who won't stand let it be their grave.

[VeganEssentials]

 

No, taking pills to lower your cholesterol is not a "cure", but if you have a person whose health depends on lowering it AND there's no way they're going to eat optimally, it's better than nothing if it may prolong their life.

 

It's a sad day when someone won't eat fruit to save their own life.

 

Earth Crisis quote:Those who won't stand let it be their grave.

 

People, on the whole, are ignorant between the connection of a good diet and good health. And many that are aware of the connection STILL choose to do what they know is less than optimal, because that's human nature. Now, try telling them that they'll need to give up everything they're used to having and that they need to put their faith in a raw diet without any evidence to show that it will necessarily do any good. That's a combination that makes most people's minds shut down and they stop listening, considering many aren't willing to even do a SLIGHTLY better diet than what they have been accustom to.

 

Like I've said before, I think that a raw diet can be good for some people (or, at least a partially raw diet for those who normally eat only processed crap), but those that claim it's the only way to truly heal the body are using false faith over actual proof, which doesn't sit well with me. People who have been raw have still gotten cancer, among other ailments, proving it's NOT a universal cure-all, despite what the raw guru-du-jour might proclaim. I can't stand bunk "science" that insists that everything other than the diet in question is flawed, which is why I tend to scream b.s. when the "raw cures all" claims come about.

 

In 50 years, if all the people who are 100% raw today (and stay that way) are still alive and kicking and are disease-free, they can get back to me then and we'll talk more. Currently, there's no real evidence to show the "miraculous" powers of it being the only or best way to treat conditions.

 

I definitely don't hate on raw diets, because they're not inherently bad. Rather, I hate on false logic, boastful claims that can't be backed up, and new-agey stuff that makes it sound like the diet is pure wizardry for fixing everything.

[medman]

Ryan, stop using logic. It's a foreign language to most. This is not an insult to any board members - I'm actually thinking more about patients I see, like one who admitted to eating nothing but "tea, crackers, goat cheese, and water" and was on welfare for her disability, but was spending god knows how much on a "Chinese herbalist" in addition to seeing medical doctors (which are free here!). You have to ask...is this the most effective way to spend her money in an attempt to get healthy? Oh, and she was a smoker. Fancy Chinese herbalist and cigarettes vs nicorette and a salad every day...her words when describing why she was seeing the herbalist were "I'm trying to do everything I can to get better, you know?" That was one of those real-life moments where I felt the need to face-palm.

[Vegan Joe]

We are all stuck moment to moment by our "limited prevailing awareness".

We are who we are due to our genes, environment, and awareness. We can do no better at the moment based on these facts. Increase your awareness and you can make better choices. We are all bombarded daily by information from both sides of the isle. It's a wonder we can make logical decisions at all, base upon all the falsehoods that are feed to us.

[Cold Fission]

 

No, taking pills to lower your cholesterol is not a "cure", but if you have a person whose health depends on lowering it AND there's no way they're going to eat optimally, it's better than nothing if it may prolong their life.

 

It's a sad day when someone won't eat fruit to save their own life.

 

Earth Crisis quote:Those who won't stand let it be their grave.

 

People, on the whole, are ignorant between the connection of a good diet and good health. And many that are aware of the connection STILL choose to do what they know is less than optimal, because that's human nature. Now, try telling them that they'll need to give up everything they're used to having and that they need to put their faith in a raw diet without any evidence to show that it will necessarily do any good. That's a combination that makes most people's minds shut down and they stop listening, considering many aren't willing to even do a SLIGHTLY better diet than what they have been accustom to.

 

Like I've said before, I think that a raw diet can be good for some people (or, at least a partially raw diet for those who normally eat only processed crap), but those that claim it's the only way to truly heal the body are using false faith over actual proof, which doesn't sit well with me. People who have been raw have still gotten cancer, among other ailments, proving it's NOT a universal cure-all, despite what the raw guru-du-jour might proclaim. I can't stand bunk "science" that insists that everything other than the diet in question is flawed, which is why I tend to scream b.s. when the "raw cures all" claims come about.

 

In 50 years, if all the people who are 100% raw today (and stay that way) are still alive and kicking and are disease-free, they can get back to me then and we'll talk more. Currently, there's no real evidence to show the "miraculous" powers of it being the only or best way to treat conditions.

 

I definitely don't hate on raw diets, because they're not inherently bad. Rather, I hate on false logic, boastful claims that can't be backed up, and new-agey stuff that makes it sound like the diet is pure wizardry for fixing everything.

I'm not arguing what you're saying, i'm just saying it's some sad shit to see people like that and still talk like humans are above animals.I'm not raw yet but am moving a lot more in that direction.Everything can get ill and die from it but a great diet will make it a lot harder to get sick then it would be on a lesser diet.There's even people that don't like drinking water.Raw vegan food and cooked vegan food are the same but the cooked one is not superior in any way.All i'm doing is stopping this thread from becoming a group of people talking down 1 person's ways.

[Im Your Man]

Medman wrote : "not every medication you give to a patient has to be (healthy)."

So it is ok to give to a person who's already in bad health some products that are harmful to health? hahaha

It is proven that even a common medication like acetaminophen given in daily preventive dosage (yes, some people are crazy enough to take a pill daily just in case one day they will have an headache or something they don't want to feel it) can cause many health issues.

Alcohol, tobacco, coffee, etc, all poisons with side effects.

I myself have once accepted to be a guinea pig for an experiment they were testing a pill for osteoporosis, a medication already sold but they were testing the same shit made by another company. In exchange of a monetary compensation. But I felt some side effects for 2 days after swallowing that one tiny pill. Seems like they can create some very effective poisons in such small amounts of powder. Its as if they put arsenic and rat poison in medecine, which they do, in fact. For instance in vaccines. I had pain in my lower back and then the pain went in all my muscles for 2 days, with also light fever, headache and sometimes feeling cold. Maybe in twenty years I will die of a medication I taken.

 

No, taking pills to lower your cholesterol is not a "cure", but if you have a person whose health depends on lowering it AND there's no way they're going to eat optimally, it's better than nothing if it may prolong their life.

How could this be possible ? There,s always a way. If they don't want to make any effort, perhaps that's because of modern medecine, which make them believe they don't need to take care of themselves because medecine can take care of them. But reality is not like this. They always have the choice to eat junk food or to eat fruits and vegetables. It is even better for health to eat nothing and small amounts of fresh foods, if they are worried about money, rather than the way they eat. Besides, organic healthy food is often cheaper than junk food (except maybe in terms of calories): I get romaine lettuce for 1,09$, cheaper than the non-organic one; organic avocados 0,79$ each. A dozen of kiwis for less than 3$. etc...

"better than nothing if it can prolong their life"... Better for who ? For human specie, to be more overpopulated ? Better for the individual, to keep surviving on medecines, drugs, and being unhappy eating junk food, instead of changing his habits and live happily and healthy, eating fresh fruits all day long ?

 

I agree than modern medecine can save lives at the last moment when the person is about to die, I can't argue about this. What I am saying is all the years before this last moment, what can the person do for her health.

 

Dude, you are entirely wrong, and I don't know if you know it, but... you use different words...

 

Dude...., you are the one playing word games.

 

I've had medical problems in my life, got medical treatment and now those problems are gone. I don't take any prescriptions or do any therapies to maintain those results.

 

Period.

 

It happens every day to other people too.

No it is you who play word games, you said "cure", while even doctors will never dare saying that they offer cures.

If you feel better now without treatments it is probably because you take care of yourself, like for instance being vegan.

 

I HAVE NEVER SEEN SOMEONE TAKING MEDECINE AND LOOKING HEALTHY. They all look sick and tired. And they are often sick and tired. Until they change their lifestyle and stop taking medecines.

[medman]

IYM, I never said we give medications that are bad for the patient's health - I was saying that there are plenty of treatments and medications which neither improve nor harm the health of the patient (and therefore aren't specifically "good for your health"), but vastly improve their quality of life, because you were talking about morphine at the time. Morphine does not make anyone healthier. What it does is give a whole lot of people in agonizing pain a way to enjoy their life more fully, whether it's temporary recovery from surgery, or at the end of their life when they are suffering pain from a terminal illness.

 

You say medications contain arsenic and rat poison - WTF? Yes, you joined a study and experienced a side effect (myalgia) of a medication to prevent osteoporosis, then decided it was clearly designed by the devil. What about the 70% of older men who die within a few weeks of falling and breaking their hip? THOSE are the men the pill was designed to help, and it may very well save many lives. And osteoporosis is one thing that cannot always be blamed on a person's choices - for example, we only recently learned that 80% of Canadians are chronically vitamin D deficient. A Canadian man who is 75 now never knew his bones were going to be weakened by impaired calcium absorption due to our country's low UV levels. If the risk of myalgia is, say, 5% (as it is for certain medications), many osteopenic people would gladly take it because of the extremely high mortality (50-70%) and morbidity associated with hip fractures in the elderly.

 

No it is you who play word games, you said "cure", while even doctors will never dare saying that they offer cures.

 

I HAVE NEVER SEEN SOMEONE TAKING MEDECINE AND LOOKING HEALTHY. They all look sick and tired. And they are often sick and tired. Until they change their lifestyle and stop taking medecines.

 

IYM, *PLEASE* stop making statements about things you know nothing about. Doctors CURE things every day. In my post a day or two ago, I even gave you a short list of things that we cure on a daily basis. Saying that we "never dare say we offer cures" is genuinely offensive, both because of how little this shows that you know about anything medical, and because of the conviction with which you state such a boldfaced lie.

 

As for "never seeing someone taking medicine and looking healthy" - I assume that you are checking everyone's medication list which they have stapled to their forehead as they walk around. I mean, come on, can you even take yourself seriously when you say such a thing? As though you know which people are on medications. You've probably had a thousand rosy-cheeked joggers run by you in the street who were treating a yeast infection, or are on an antacid for their acid reflux, or are taking NSAIDs for a slightly pulled tendon. You probably assume they must be "drug-free" to be so healthy and active. As somebody who actually DOES get to see hundreds of people's medication lists when I get to meet them face to face, I'd like to think my opinion might actually carry some weight on this matter.

[Vegan Joe]

I'm waiting for the winner to step forward.

 

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/35/103226219_b6c586a161.jpg

[Im Your Man]

Yes, medecine are made of poisons, don't say the contrary. Why do you think most people commit suicide with this ?

What I meant when I said I have never seen someone on medecine/drugs looking healthy -- and then you say I don't know who does drugs or not -- is that when I see someone buying medications, or when I see someone swallowing a pill, or someone at the hospital, etc, they all look either fat or very sick. When I see someone looking healthy I see him or her just walking in the street or whatever, but rarely in the hospital or at the drugstore waiting for medications. All the people at the hospital are sick and almost dying, those who don't go there are fine. Lately in an hospital in Quebec there's an epidemic gastroenteritis virus, almost 500 people have been contaminated just because they went to the hospital. Hospitals are some of the most dirty, contagious, infected, dangerous and sad places in the world. Thousands of people die there each day, and the others are all sick. It is far better to be sick at home or to give birth to a baby in a peaceful environment rather than in Hell/hospital. Babies that are born in hospitals are crying and it is a traumatic experience for both child and mother. At home with a midwife, giving birth to the child in water maybe, it is calm and often done in silence and joy.

I'm not saying modern medecine is bad or useless, all I'm saying is it is far better to avoid it each time it is possible, to look at the natural alternatives, and to take measures like taking care of yourself, to delay the most a visit to an hospital or the use of medications.

[sosso]

Yes, medecine are made of poisons, don't say the contrary. Why do you think most people commit suicide with this ?

 

In the last week we had three toxicology patients on our ward. All of them were young women who tried to commit suicide by swallowing a load of over-the-counter medications. It's shocking.

 

There's this thing called Therapeutic Index. Look that up.

 

If you swallow 40 Paracetamol & 40 Ibuprofen pills, like one of my patients did the other day, you're going to run into some problems...

 

What I meant when I said I have never seen someone on medecine/drugs looking healthy -- and then you say I don't know who does drugs or not -- is that when I see someone buying medications, or when I see someone swallowing a pill, or someone at the hospital, etc, they all look either fat or very sick. When I see someone looking healthy I see him or her just walking in the street or whatever, but rarely in the hospital or at the drugstore waiting for medications. All the people at the hospital are sick and almost dying, those who don't go there are fine.

 

Absolutely. People generally turn to medicine when they're sick or injured. It's a bit of a no-brainer.

 

These days if you're in hospital it's because you're very very sick or badly injured. There's a shortage of beds and staff everywhere. From the minute a patient is admitted to hospital, we are already preparing for their discharge.

 

Just out of interest, when you see one of these healthy people jogging or walking in the street, do you then follow them for the entire day, or perhaps week, just to make sure they are not visiting the pharmacy to buy some medicine?

[medman]

Sosso makes some good points. You would do well to appreciate what the therapeutic index represents. Also, you still claimed medications are made of arsenic and rat poison, which is laughably outrageous.

 

Sosso also pointed out the same thing I tried to in my last post - that you noticed that visibly sick or hospitalized people look unwell. You attribute this to them taking medication. I attribute this to what is known in statistics as "sample bias" - in your mind, the representative sample of people you think of as "medication takers" are all people you could tell were visibly unwell. While those unwell people are indeed taking medication (after all, they are unwell), so are many, many, many people whom you cannot visually identify. Out on the street, you can't tell who looks healthy but is still on medication (for example, I take meds for my acid reflux, yet can be seen running and biking around the city, training in the gym, looking healthy). Therefore, because your "on medication" group contains only people who are visibly unwell, and not any of the people who take meds but look great, your sample is biased and you concluded that all people who take medication are on death's door.

 

That's the exact same error made by people who say all vegans are scrawny pale women with anemia, because the one person they knew in high school who was a vegan was a scrawny pale woman with anemia.

[Vegan Joe]

Yes, medecine are made of poisons, don't say the contrary. Why do you think most people commit suicide with this ?

What I meant when I said I have never seen someone on medecine/drugs looking healthy -- and then you say I don't know who does drugs or not -- is that when I see someone buying medications, or when I see someone swallowing a pill, or someone at the hospital, etc, they all look either fat or very sick. When I see someone looking healthy I see him or her just walking in the street or whatever, but rarely in the hospital or at the drugstore waiting for medications. All the people at the hospital are sick and almost dying, those who don't go there are fine. Lately in an hospital in Quebec there's an epidemic gastroenteritis virus, almost 500 people have been contaminated just because they went to the hospital. Hospitals are some of the most dirty, contagious, infected, dangerous and sad places in the world. Thousands of people die there each day, and the others are all sick. It is far better to be sick at home or to give birth to a baby in a peaceful environment rather than in Hell/hospital. Babies that are born in hospitals are crying and it is a traumatic experience for both child and mother. At home with a midwife, giving birth to the child in water maybe, it is calm and often done in silence and joy.

I'm not saying modern medecine is bad or useless, all I'm saying is it is far better to avoid it each time it is possible, to look at the natural alternatives, and to take measures like taking care of yourself, to delay the most a visit to an hospital or the use of medications.

Your thought process is so narrow.

Lets take people who suffer from epileptic fits. Yes some can be cured by diet, but most require medication to live a somewhat normal life. People with psychological problems also need medication because their brain is deficient in some chemicals. People who contract things like type I diabetes require insulin to live. There are many diseases out there that require medication for people to live normal lives. hepatitis, malaria, etc. etc. etc.. You're not thinking your criticism through.

 

Well of course there are diseases in hospitals, sick people go there to get cured. Without antibiotics a lot of people would die from infections and such.

[VeganEssentials]

Guys, it doesn't really pay to bother trying to convince IYM any longer.

 

I've asked his opinion on my eye condition and his thoughts on using medicinal treatment vs. diet and faith in a natural "cure" more than once, and he's managed to dodge it at least 3 times, so he'll always selectively pick parts that fit his theories and ignore the bulk of real-life situations. Everyone makes some great points, but alas, they're completely avoided time and time again. One more example - I have a sister whose thyroid basically does not work any longer, and it leads to severe obesity if untreated. Even extremely healthy diets done with exercise will still cause her to gain weight if she doesn't take medication for it - so she does what she needs to do. Diet won't magically kick-start her thyroid back to working after 20 years of either barely working or not working at all, so is she "sick" because she takes a medication that prevents her from becoming morbidly obese (which brings on its own health complications)? I have the feeling there won't be a reply to that type of scenario as well.

 

When time is crucial and we can either A) use medication to prevent something form getting worse, or B) tweak our diet and keep our fingers crossed that things will get better, it's pretty clear by his statements that he'd risk death over something simple that could potentially save his life. It's not out of fact of rational fear of medicine, but rather a bizarre, ever-changing theory on the evils that seem to me to be more of a phobia than a rational response. But, whatever...I jut hope he's never in the kind of situation where you have no choice but to make a snap decision that could affect your health permanently, because I can only believe he'd make the unwise decision.

[hilary wright]

I have learned from this thread that eating tofu will make your testicles fall off unless you drink 8 ounces of stevia daily. Seems to be working for me.

[beforewisdom]

I have learned from this thread that eating tofu will make your testicles fall off unless you drink 8 ounces of stevia daily. Seems to be working for me.

 

If you only drink 4 ounces of stevia you will lose one testicle?

[Im Your Man]

Yes, medecine are made of poisons, don't say the contrary. Why do you think most people commit suicide with this ?

What I meant when I said I have never seen someone on medecine/drugs looking healthy -- and then you say I don't know who does drugs or not -- is that when I see someone buying medications, or when I see someone swallowing a pill, or someone at the hospital, etc, they all look either fat or very sick. When I see someone looking healthy I see him or her just walking in the street or whatever, but rarely in the hospital or at the drugstore waiting for medications. All the people at the hospital are sick and almost dying, those who don't go there are fine. Lately in an hospital in Quebec there's an epidemic gastroenteritis virus, almost 500 people have been contaminated just because they went to the hospital. Hospitals are some of the most dirty, contagious, infected, dangerous and sad places in the world. Thousands of people die there each day, and the others are all sick. It is far better to be sick at home or to give birth to a baby in a peaceful environment rather than in Hell/hospital. Babies that are born in hospitals are crying and it is a traumatic experience for both child and mother. At home with a midwife, giving birth to the child in water maybe, it is calm and often done in silence and joy.

I'm not saying modern medecine is bad or useless, all I'm saying is it is far better to avoid it each time it is possible, to look at the natural alternatives, and to take measures like taking care of yourself, to delay the most a visit to an hospital or the use of medications.

Your thought process is so narrow.

Lets take people who suffer from epileptic fits. Yes some can be cured by diet, but most require medication to live a somewhat normal life. People with psychological problems also need medication because their brain is deficient in some chemicals. People who contract things like type I diabetes require insulin to live. There are many diseases out there that require medication for people to live normal lives. hepatitis, malaria, etc. etc. etc.. You're not thinking your criticism through.

 

Well of course there are diseases in hospitals, sick people go there to get cured. Without antibiotics a lot of people would die from infections and such.

 

Joe do you read the things that you quote from me? Because if you read the last sentences I've written and that you quoted you would understand that my thought isn't so narrow... Yes medications are a bunch of poisons with side effects and polluting our bodies, water, etc... and hospitals are places where everybody die, places filled with all the diseases, viruses and bacterias, where very often there's epidemies and they need to close half of the hospital before all the people inside get infected... BUT, as I've written, it is useful sometimes, when all the other possibilities don't work. But it should always work. The only thing that can truly cure is the body itself. No medication, doctors or food can cure, they can only help. The best thing to do is always to prevent, by avoiding junk food, medication, drugs, alcohol, stress and all pollution...

Without antibiotics we would live in a much better world. Because of antibiotics, antivirals, insecticides, pesticides and all the products designed to kill life, all the bacterias and such that survive become stronger at a much faster rate than if those inventions of evil wouldn't exist. All the scientists know the side effect of antibiotics but they are still working in the same direction because science never change, it keeps asking the wrong questions and getting the wrong answers. We don't give a damn about the virtues of dark chocolate, green tea and red wine, all supposed to increase health while it is the exact opposite. The more 'progress' there is about nutrition, the more people are obese, sick with diabetes and cancer and allergies, 300 times more than ever...