RAINRA Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I can't stand hearing ignorant people talk about calcium specially from dairy like it is some magic pill. Anyone else deal with people who are know it alls and just don't want to listen to the facts? ARRRR .... it boils my blood seeing closed minded brainwashed people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medman Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I have to deal with this misconception in patients all the time. The fact is, especially as we age, that virtually nobody gets the dietary calcium they need to ward off osteoporosis, whether they eat dairy or not. I hope this doesn't offend my fellow vegans who like to argue that we get all the calcium we need...I will agree that we can get similar levels of calcium to omnis, but the fact remains that pretty much everybody could use more than they're getting from their diet, especially those over the age of 40-50. Add to that the fact that a solid 75% of my fellow Canadians are vitamin D deficient, and it gets even more worrisome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I have to deal with this misconception in patients all the time. The fact is, especially as we age, that virtually nobody gets the dietary calcium they need to ward off osteoporosis, whether they eat dairy or not. I hope this doesn't offend my fellow vegans who like to argue that we get all the calcium we need...I will agree that we can get similar levels of calcium to omnis, but the fact remains that pretty much everybody could use more than they're getting from their diet, especially those over the age of 40-50. Add to that the fact that a solid 75% of my fellow Canadians are vitamin D deficient, and it gets even more worrisome. Does excersise help much preserving bone density in elderly? I mean if they would actually run or whatever (I realize most people don't do that) would that help preventing osteoporosis or is excersise only useful in building up peak bone mass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAINRA Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 I went to one of joel furhmans doctors lectures on osteoporosis. The matter of fact is medman is right in the fact that calcium levels are the same as we age between vegan and non vegans. There was a lady who sat across the table from me vegan for 10 years and had osteopenia. The beginnings of osteoporosis. What the doctor had told us is that it was not the calcium that we eat that helps build strong bones as it is important but it is actually the diet and lifestyle that was much more of a factor. He explained that sugar highly acidic, coffee, soda and other bad dietary habits were not only in dairy consuming individuals but in all of the spectrum of individuals. Like Medman said it was also the fact that vitamin D levels, since people spend most of their time away from the sun, were pretty low. And add to the fact that people don't do resistance training. Excersize is key to keeping strong bones. He was showing for the spine, how important it was to have a weighted vest for people because it helped strengthened it. On the whole Dentist stuff and amalgam fillings is that it seems to be more dangerous to remove them if you already have them than to keep them. Unless you have a really good dentist. Many Dentists like my friends father who I asked are for the fillings and say there is little danger. Now I am not totally sure of this but that is one opinion. He also thinks flouride is good in the water because it really does help keep strong teeth. I was like well what happened prior to flouride should not water be as it is. Seem radical to have to put stuff in our water in order to be healthy. He said it was necessary again for healthy teeth. I then brought up the fact that it maybe so now because of bad dietary habbits and lifestyle that contribute to bad gums and teeth. I heard somewhere I am not sure it is rumors that native americans had good teeth and gums until the eastern settlers came and brought all their breads and processed foods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob PMFF Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Oh man...Sometimes I feel like I'm caught in an avalanche of ignorance. It's exhausting explaining the same thing over and over again. I try to be patient because some people are genuinely curious, but others are downright confrontational about it. "Where do you get your protein?""There's no iron in vegetables, you have to get it from meat""Where do you get your dairy?" "You don't get enough calcium, that's why you broke your hand last year""That's just not natural, you have to eat meat.""You're a communist!""That's unamerican!""God put animals here for us to do what we want with" Sometimes I just smile and shrug or give a smartass answer. My wife says I'm not being a credit to the cause by behaving this way. But some people are just so F'ing annoying. Clearly I was not put here to be an educator of any kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medman Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Does excersise help much preserving bone density in elderly? I mean if they would actually run or whatever (I realize most people don't do that) would that help preventing osteoporosis or is excersise only useful in building up peak bone mass? Resistance exercise helps tremendously in maintaining bone mineral density in the elderly. A gastroenterologist who lectured us on calcium balance had a good analogy: you have a "bone bank". By the time you're in your 20s, you've finished the phase of your life where you can make deposits into that bank. As you age, if you aren't taking in enough calcium and vitamin D, your body will have to keep making small withdrawals, which add up over the years. Once the balance in the bank is low, there's no way to ever get it back up, so all you can do is try to keep as much in the bank as possible over the course of your life if you want to avoid osteoporosis when you're older. The three things that help you maintain that balance in your "bone bank" are dietary calcium, vitamin D, and resistance exercise. If you keep those 3 things up over the course of your life, you will most likely avoid issues of osteoporosis (unless you develop a medical condition that results in bone loss, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAINRA Posted February 6, 2010 Author Share Posted February 6, 2010 What astounds me even more are people who don't care about there diet at all and eat because they love taste only and want anything and everything. Which is like the people I am currently staying with temporarily. I think this is rediculous because the lady is really into cooking but went to school to study nutrition. Has not kept up with the literature and still thinks what people write in those old text books about dairy and calcium and how it is really hard to get good protein from plants and so on. I just don't get people who have no self respect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobsteriffic Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 What astounds me even more are people who don't care about there diet at all and eat because they love taste only and want anything and everything. That's pretty much my husband. He whines that he doesn't like veggies even though he knows they're good for him. He'll eat fast food burgers simply because he likes the way they taste, despite the fact that he's fully aware of the health consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Meh, most people are like that and I'm guessing people on this forum as well. Maybe not with food, but in knowing something is not right in our life, that it is going to catch up with us and doing nothing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobsteriffic Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 That's a good point. I guess I shouldn't really throw stones, I smoked for 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 What astounds me even more are people who don't care about there diet at all and eat because they love taste only and want anything and everything. What's wrong with that? We're all gonna die, sooner or later, so if someone derives a lot of pleasure from eating crap (or smoking, or drinking, or...) and are fully aware of possible consequences - why not? To each his own. Don't know about you, but I'm over with evangelizing to people about how wrong they are about something and then showing them "The Way". Life's not about how old you can manage to get anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Joe Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 What astounds me even more are people who don't care about there diet at all and eat because they love taste only and want anything and everything. What's wrong with that? We're all gonna die, sooner or later, so if someone derives a lot of pleasure from eating crap (or smoking, or drinking, or...) and are fully aware of possible consequences - why not? To each his own. Don't know about you, but I'm over with evangelizing to people about how wrong they are about something and then showing them "The Way". Life's not about how old you can manage to get anyway.There is to something to be said about having your wagon go off the cliff before any of the wheels fall off first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medman Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Life's not about how old you can manage to get anyway. Not when you phrase it that way. But it's not just about the number of years you live...it's the quality of life, especially in the later half. When you meet a healthy, active 70 year-old who still plays tennis a few times a week, and compare their quality of life to the 50 year-old who has already had a heart attack and now can't climb a set of stairs without stopping to catch his breath, I think it becomes apparent that making "the right choices" health-wise has more of an impact than just seeing how many more years you can eke out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) Not when you phrase it that way. But it's not just about the number of years you live...it's the quality of life, especially in the later half. When you meet a healthy, active 70 year-old who still plays tennis a few times a week, and compare their quality of life to the 50 year-old who has already had a heart attack and now can't climb a set of stairs without stopping to catch his breath, I think it becomes apparent that making "the right choices" health-wise has more of an impact than just seeing how many more years you can eke out. Yeah, but maybe that 50 year-old already lived more fully than most people of any age, and is ready to die. Not that I advocate being reckless about your health or anything, I'm just irritated about self-righteous proclamations to the effect that those who don't take their calcium or vitamin x are just stupid and don't know what they're doing. I know plenty of people who live very "unhealthily", but are so infinetily awesome that I would never manage to top that in a 100 years. As Bukowski wrote in one of his novels: "Most men don't even live, they just wear down". Edited February 22, 2010 by Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medman Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Oh, of course what you do with your life is up to each of us. And of course, there are some people out there who have lived more extraordinary lives by the age of 30 than others will by 80, but just think of what one of those incredible people could do if they live to be an able-bodied 80 year old I agree that it isn't a crime to not worry about your health. Keeping healthy is just one way to help you get more enjoyment out of your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Keeping healthy is just one way to help you get more enjoyment out of your life. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Joe Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 As Bukowski wrote in one of his novels: "Most men don't don't even live, they just wear down".We are all fibers in the fabric of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Oh, of course what you do with your life is up to each of us. And of course, there are some people out there who have lived more extraordinary lives by the age of 30 than others will by 80, but just think of what one of those incredible people could do if they live to be an able-bodied 80 year old Well, if they would have done all that's necessary to stay healthy their lives probably wouldn't have been nearly as extraordinary I agree that it isn't a crime to not worry about your health. Keeping healthy is just one way to help you get more enjoyment out of your life. Sure, I'm not arguing against that. All I wanted to say is that not all people care about health and longevity for their own reasons, and that it's perfectly fine. I'm just so sick of people rolling their eyes and getting on their moral high horses every time they see others living differently than they think is right. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I've been hearing this debate all of my life. People always take the points to the extremes of falsehood. 1. Healthy food can be an enjoyment and often is for many people. As is a healthy lifestyle. 2. A healthy lifestyle isn't incompatible with leading a productive and interesting life. I'm reading the China Study right now. Dr. Campbell became a vegetarian as a result of his work. He is over 70 years old and runs every morning. He had....and has....a career that would be the envy of many people. He mentioned this in his book and how he visits, regularly, highschool friends in intensive care units in hospitals. These were the people who told him when they were teens that they wanted to enjoy their lives and not worry about their health. After Dr. Campbell visits these people who goes visits his grandchilren and continues his work, enjoying his life, while they lay in bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Good points BeforeWisdom. I just ordered the China study, cant wait to crack it open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 1. Healthy food can be an enjoyment and often is for many people. As is a healthy lifestyle. Of course. But not for everyone. 2. A healthy lifestyle isn't incompatible with leading a productive and interesting life. Of course. But not for everyone. Some people just can't accept the fact that they don't know what's best for everyone else. Yes, you can lead a healthy lifestyle and enjoy life. Yet for some people it's just not the case. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Some people just can't accept the fact that they don't know what's best for everyone else. Welcome to the internet, veganism and generation narcissist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Welcome to the internet, veganism and generation narcissist I don't get it. Why do you think I'm a narcissist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I don't. I wrote that I think that web boarders, vegans as a group and narcissists tend to think they know what is right for everybody.........in reply to your comment. Psychologists in the US think there is an epidemic of narcissism ( the neurosis, not the personality disorder ) in the US, particularly among the generation of the 20 somethings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I don't. I wrote that I think that web boarders, vegans as a group and narcissists tend to think they know what is right for everybody.........in reply to your comment. Psychologists in the US think there is an epidemic of narcissism ( the neurosis, not the personality disorder ) in the US, particularly among the generation of the 20 somethings. Oh, I misunderstood that, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now