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after following a strict vegan diet in which i did everything right for two years, i came down with pneumonia. of course, when i was diagnosed with pneumonia i couldnt have imagined that i stille be suffering for a whole year after it cleared up. pleurisy, adhesions, aenemia, the list goes on, but im sure no one here wants to hear it. surely you will all assume that i wasnt taking a certain supplement and i was just doing it wrong.

 

 

i have to thank you guys though, bc in feb of 09 i posted a couple of threads about how sick i was feeling, and about two people respodned. my memories of interactions on this site mostly consist of being talked down to, though there were a -few- nice people(robert included)

 

anyway thanks for not giving me any advice, bc i was already brainwashed enough as it was...

 

in aug of 08, after suffering through severe, unrelenting malaise and illness for 6 months, and two years after i went strict vegan, i ate some eggs. then in order to reconcile what i was doing with my beliefs, i modified my beliefs. i read a book called the vegetarian myth which you should all read and that points out that INDUSTRIAL AGRICULTURE is really whats killing this planet, not animal products.

 

there were other books and articles that helped open my eyes, but what helped most was the fact that i was literally dying and i felt sick all the time and no matter how many hours i spent researching and no matter how many big cans of vega i bought, i wasnt getting ANY better.

 

 

did i mention all the trips to ER throught last year? of course, they could never really put their finger on what was wrong, but i KNOW what was wrong, bc now, 6 months after being back on real food, eating chicken and fish and drinking loads of milk, i feel normal again(well, as close as one could expect after nearly destroying ones body.)

 

 

anyway, thanks again everybody for blowing me off, i know the vegan culture is very cliqueish,(bc i was worse than any of you) so its nothing that surprises me, but at the time it kinda hurt, since the whole world was against my diet(rightfully so), and no one on this site was even willing to offer any help(thank god)

 

 

 

i'll leave you with a quote from the book i mentioned.

 

lierre keith--

"In his book Long Life, Honey in the Heart, Martin Pretchel writes of the Mayan people and their concept of kas-limaal, which translates roughly as “mutual indebtedness, mutual insparkedness.” “The knowledge that every animal, plant, person, wind, and season is indebted to the fruit of everything else is an adult knowledge. To get out of debt means you don’t want to be part of life, and you don’t want to grow into an adult,” one of the elders explains to Pretchel.

The only way out of the vegetarian myth is through the pursuit of kas-limaal, of adult knowledge. This is a concept we need, especially those of us who are impassioned by injustice. I know I needed it. In the narrative of my life, the first bite of meat after my twenty year hiatus marks the end of my youth, the moment when I assumed the responsibilities of adulthood. It was the moment I stopped fighting the basic algebra of embodiment: for someone to live, someone else has to die. In that acceptance, with all its suffering and sorrow, is the ability to choose a different way, a better way.

 

.... without the check of predators, there will quickly be more grazers than grass. The animals will outstrip their food source, eat the plants down to the ground, and then starve to death, leaving behind a seriously degraded landscape.

 

The lesson here is obvious, though it is profound enough to inspire a religion: we need to be eaten as much as we need to eat. The grazers need their daily cellulose, but the grass also needs the animals. It needs the manure, with its nitrogen, minerals, and bacteria; it needs the mechanical check of grazing activity; and it needs the resources stored in animal bodies and freed up by degraders when animals die.

The grass and the grazers need each other as much as predators and prey. These are not one-way relationships, not arrangements of dominance and subordination. We aren’t exploiting each other by eating. We are only taking turns.

That was my last visit to the vegan message boards. I realized then that people so deeply ignorant of the nature of life, with its mineral cycle and carbon trade, its balance points around an ancient circle of producers, consumers, and degraders, weren’t going to be able to guide me or, indeed, make any useful decisions about sustainable human culture. By turning from adult knowledge, the knowledge that death is embedded in every creature’s sustenance, from bacteria to grizzly bears, they would never be able to feed the emotional and spiritual hunger that ached in me from accepting that knowledge. Maybe in the end this book is an attempt to soothe that ache myself."

 

 

goodbye, good luck, and i hope you read this book when you start falling apart.

 

i wont be back

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I'm very glad you're better.

 

Pneumonias can be a b*tch. Attributing your recovery to eating animal products, however, is as questionable as the people who claim that eliminating [cooked food, beans, starchy foods, whatever] cured them of their ailments. There is no evidence to suggest that a vegan diet causes any kind of immunocompromisation. Omnivores get year-long pneumonias all the time.

 

Your post is hilariously inflammatory and condescending. It's clear you're looking for something to blame for your illness (most people do), but the evidence is clear and does not support your accusations.

 

I could be inflammatory and condescending, too. But I don't feel like feeding the trolls quite that much. All I will say is that veganism doesn't prevent or treat pneumonias, and it would be unrealistic to expect so. Likewise, the SAD doesn't prevent or treat pneumonias either.

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What is sad is your reaction to a lack of response. We are all not Doctors here, why didn't you contact Dr Ornish, or John McDougall MD? if it was that imperative to you. To blame us for what we don't know about you is sad.

I'm 56 and will reach my 4 year anniversary on as a vegan is in less than a week. You would think that at my age any serious symptoms would have expressed themselves by now. I feel great all my blood work is in within the limits.

Being lactose intolerant as is 75% of the worlds population, (us 75% weren't designed to drink milk as adults) If I were to drink a glass of milk, I'd shit my pants within minutes.

Yeah I think somebody said it before It the blame game.

I am glad that you feel better.

I also have no problem with you living your life as you see fit.

Your rational for ten chickens in a cage is a little disturbing tho.

I am glad that the things I kill to eat don't consciously suffer or experience pain from it.

Thanks for your advice, and warning.

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I found this post of his:

No one talked down to him in this thread, everyone seemed hopeful and helpful to him.

He didn't post anything on Feb. 9th

But started this thread on the 16th

 

I did see that he said he was taking Nyquil and some kind of antibiotic and this is before he was diagnosed by his doctors appointment with pneumonia, according to the timeline.

 

This might have been a factor in screwing up his system, maybe not???

Self medication???

Not to mention poor working conditions, and his claim of working himself into exhaustion.

Anyway he's better now.

 

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16756

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I will let someone else decided whether or not to take this down.

 

Anyone else respond to this please don't slam him! Everyone is entitled to their individual opinion.

 

Most anyone who might have offended him in the past are more than likely gone from the board.

 

Take it down.For the sake of the people that are considering veganism but find things like this on a veganbodybuilding forum of all places.

 

That book he refers to revolves around the grain industry.And yet it blames vegetarians and vegans.Not all vegans live of wheat and rice.Imagine those fields of grain or grazing pastures covered with fruit trees instead.They would shade the soil and keep it nutrient rich.The future will depend on how we manage growing food.Planting fruit trees is the best option of all.

 

Take this thread down.That's what mods are for.He is blaming veganism for his downfall and posting it here so everyone new to veganism will have doubts.God i wish i was a moderator.

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God i wish i was a moderator.

MODS don't say things like this:

I'm talking about a disaster that ends all human life in Korea.then the rest of them abroad will hopefully die of sorrow.If they even have feelings.

You give veganism a bad name more than acesfull ever did.

People will hear the cons on veganism everywhere they go.

Your fruit tree answer has no validity to the answer of poor modern agricultural practices. It the soil and prep and additive and production requirements is where the problem lies. Your fruit tree scenario is just as bad as acesfull when it comes to to portraying the truth. Why can't you see your own bias?

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Cold- I respect your request, but seeing his post makes me feel better about my choices as a vegan. When I did it 100% I felt better about myself and never wanted to return to an animal eating/exploiting lifestyle. If I had seen multiple postings or PMs asking me to take it down then I would... but from what I see it has only offended you as such.

 

I don't agree with what he says, but people should see both sides and decide.

 

Veganism isn't for everyone brotha.

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God i wish i was a moderator.

MODS don't say things like this:

I'm talking about a disaster that ends all human life in Korea.then the rest of them abroad will hopefully die of sorrow.If they even have feelings.

You give veganism a bad name more than acesfull ever did.

People will hear the cons on veganism everywhere they go.

Your fruit tree answer has no validity to the answer of poor modern agricultural practices. It the soil and prep and additive and production requirements is where the problem lies. Your fruit tree scenario is just as bad as acesfull when it comes to to portraying the truth. Why can't you see your own bias?

 

That's like saying Earth Crisis gives vegans a bad name.All or nothing.

 

The future of food will be in organic gardening, rock dust composting for proper mineralization of the soil, and then the apex with be in the rebuilding of our forests and practicing forest gardening.

Edited by Cold Fission
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in his original thread it says that he had the flu. Isnt that a virus. I know of nothing yet that is going to stop a virus post introduction. Once that dna starts getting rewritten is gets kind of hard. It seems his lungs were an after effect. Nothing beats proper personal hygiene. I dont think that I have ever read a credible book that said it was going to stop a virus. I have read some incredible books that have made that claim.

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.... without the check of predators, there will quickly be more grazers than grass. The animals will outstrip their food source, eat the plants down to the ground, and then starve to death, leaving behind a seriously degraded landscape.

 

The lesson here is obvious, though it is profound enough to inspire a religion: we need to be eaten as much as we need to eat. The grazers need their daily cellulose, but the grass also needs the animals.

 

Do you really think that if factory farming were eliminated, the cows would propagate like they do in captivity and eat up all our grass? In factory farms, they primarily eat corn and soy, anyway.

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Damn bc damn. After reading all that totally legit info I've decided to not be vegan anymore bc you get sick (n=1). In fact I'm only going to eat real food from now on bc it's real. Chicken, fish and milk not one single vegetable bc vegetables isn't real bc they are destroying the planet bc a crazy lady in a book said so. There is no spoon bc there simply isn't (bc it's not real). bc bc bc bc

 

 

bc

 

 

bc

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Wow, this thread is wild . . . I think that what should be remembered is that this a forum. Which is "a public meeting or assembly for open discussion". Not some place to strictly validate your own personal agenda. All "open discussion" is valid . . . finger pointing and accusations really aren't valid, discussion is. There are obviously wide ranges in points of view here. Very cool! To blame a forum or a specific life style that works for some people is just silly. I have been involved in this lifestyle since I was 9. Hardcore since 1982. I do tend to agree with what I feel are more sensible views expressed by Medman, Johan, Beforewisdom, DV, Octo, Vegan Joe (my "old man buddy"), and Rainra. This doesn't mean i don't respect IYM and Cold Fission. Their passion for this lifestyle is very cool to me. I have never been a militant. I love all of you people. But to lash out at a forum of what I feel are really sincere, good people makes no sense. I feel that this thread should stand to embody our tolerence.

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Wow, this thread is wild . . . I think that what should be remembered is that this a forum. Which is "a public meeting or assembly for open discussion". Not some place to strictly validate your own personal agenda. All "open discussion" is valid . . . finger pointing and accusations really aren't valid, discussion is. There are obviously wide ranges in points of view here. Very cool! To blame a forum or a specific life style that works for some people is just silly. I have been involved in this lifestyle since I was 9. Hardcore since 1982. I do tend to agree with what I feel are more sensible views expressed by Medman, Johan, Beforewisdom, DV, Octo, Vegan Joe (my "old man buddy"), and Rainra. This doesn't mean i don't respect IYM and Cold Fission. Their passion for this lifestyle is very cool to me. I have never been a militant. I love all of you people. But to lash out at a forum of what I feel are really sincere, good people makes no sense. I feel that this thread should stand to embody our tolerence.

Your intolerable.

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Me and some other vegans recently bought www.vegetarianmyth.com and are working on a crowdsourced thorough debunking of that incredibly poorly researched/illogical book. We passed out this flier that lists just a few of the inaccuracies at one of her recent speaking engagements in SF (the one right after some vegan anarchists pied her in the face). http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/03/15/18641159.php

 

If anyone's interested in writing an article for the site, email [email protected]

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I spend half of my days at work on an ambulance. The people I mostly see with pneumonia have been rode hard and put away wet. They smoke, they live in filthy homes, and they eat pork 3 times a day, sausage for breakfast, ham for lunch, and ribs for dinner Being vegan isn't going to stop you from aspirating something or getting an infection. What do you want from it? It's just a diet.

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