MarsAttacks Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Hello everyone. I know this is nothing new. We have all read the infinite warnings about consuming soy. I have a question that I hope someone could shed some light on. 'They' say that soy raises estrogen in men. Something to do with the phytoestrogens or something. What I don't understand is, isn't soy just a bean?! Why would soy beans contain these hormonal wrecking balls but kidney beans or black beans don't? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Plants contain different substances in different amounts, it's nature dude. Many legumes other than soy contain phytoestrogens but soy is a hotter topic since it's consumed more and I would guess the amount of the phytoestrogens are a bit higher than other legumes. I know that lentils have some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Fission Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Mac Danzig is ripped as anyone and he eats lots of soy and other so called estrogenic foods like hummus.That's all the proof i need.Robert Cheeke eats soy as well and look at him.People in the middle east eat lots of hummus and they don't all have bitch titties either.Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubby2112 Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Milk has mammalian estrogens, which are far more potent than phytoestrogens. Phytoestrogens are pro- and anti-estrogenic. Mammalian estrogens are basically only pro-estrogenic. Milk, like all other animal products, is far more highly concentrated in xenoestrogens. People grow fine on tons of milk. I wouldn't worry. There are some stickies around here on soy. Give them a read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 That's all the proof i need. If I find 50 guys that smoked cigarettes their whole life and don't develop lung cancer, is that enough proof that smoking does not cause lung cancer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRose Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Hello everyone. I know this is nothing new. We have all read the infinite warnings about consuming soy. I have a question that I hope someone could shed some light on. 'They' say that soy raises estrogen in men. Something to do with the phytoestrogens or something. What I don't understand is, isn't soy just a bean?! Why would soy beans contain these hormonal wrecking balls but kidney beans or black beans don't? Thanks Every time I hear something anti-soy, I follow the trail and it leads straight to studies founded by anti-veg*n meat industries. Nuff said. Asians eat soy all the time, and they don't have a problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 Every time I hear something anti-soy, I follow the trail and it leads straight to studies founded by anti-veg*n meat industries You've missed "some" studies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRose Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 You've missed "some" studies... Then by all means, post the sources. Education is the spice of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Fission Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 That's all the proof i need. If I find 50 guys that smoked cigarettes their whole life and don't develop lung cancer, is that enough proof that smoking does not cause lung cancer? You don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 I have a entire category on my blog that has nothing but articles, from very reputable sources, that does nothing but debunk soy hysteria: http://beforewisdom.com/blog/?cat=23 If you use the search engine on this site and on veganfitness.net with the search term "soy" you will find a lot of useful information. Lastly, if you are on a health plan you don't need to worry about any of it. Just go in for a checkup and ask to have your testosterone measured with the other things that will be measured. I've been eating soy foods a few times a week for about 30 years and mine is in normal range. I've read other accounts of vegan bodybuilders who chug down soy protein powder whose levels were measured as normal at their doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 You've missed "some" studies... Then by all means, post the sources. Education is the spice of life. Goodin S, Shen F, Shih W, et al. Clinical and biologic activity of soy protein powder (SPP) in healthy male volunteers: effect on testosterone and luteinizing hormone (LH). Program and abstracts of the 40th annual meeting of the American Society of Clinical Oncology; June 5-8, 2004; New Orleans, Louisiana. Abstract 4611. You don't get it. I totally get it. You don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarsAttacks Posted March 28, 2010 Author Share Posted March 28, 2010 I guess just like anything else, moderation is the key. If you're meals are predominately made up of soy meats, soy milk and soy protein you may run into some of those 'dangers'. Personally I don't make any real efforts to completely avoid it. I usually have 1-2 servings of soy daily. I will add some TVP with my quinoa for the added protein. Another thing I do is rotate between TVP and Tempeh (supposedly free of those nasty phytoestrogens due to fermentation) every other day or so. TVP is just so damn cheap!!! I don't remember where exactly but I read that soy isolates are the most problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 There is a sticky in the nutrition section and an article on my blog about a study where they tried to cause bad effects with isolates. The subjects couldn't eat enough of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawberryriddick Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 As Cubby said, milk contains far stronger estrogens and no one cries about dairy giving them bitch tits. On top of this, studies repeatedly show that soy does not have an effect on testosterone. As some others pointed out, Asian countries consume far more soy and they aren't sterile or full of men with breasts. Having reviewed the host of documentation out there, Muscular Development magazine published that soy was a great thing to fit in the 2-4 hour digestion window (for those that blend their proteins). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcina Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 In Asian countries they mostly use soy as a condiment, and it's probably processed differently than it is here.. Like out here a lot of soy is GMO. But I digress.. Milk does have stronger estrogens. After I gave up dairy my boobs shrunk. I used to eat tofu everyday, take soy protein and drink it with soy milk and they still stayed small.. LOL! So really.. All the hype is just that: Hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen_Horse Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 There are only two things to remember about soy consumption: 1. Moderation2. Limit processed soy (like any other processed food) /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eksster Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 I never followed any of the smear. Kind of always left me a little curious. I hear you all on the "search the forum" matter, but I think I've heard enough here to continue on without any worry. I've been eating tofu all my life, and sometimes 2lbs/ day. On average 1lb/ day. It just makes the best sandwiches! I take one cube, and make 4 large slices, fry em up good n' good, and slather on some yoshidas! Cabbage and Daves killer bread, then it's on! Does this quantity I've revealed of my own diet scare anyone on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 No, I've been eating soy foods since I was 14. No harm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veggieprincess Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 I guess just like anything else, moderation is the key. If you're meals are predominately made up of soy meats, soy milk and soy protein you may run into some of those 'dangers'. Personally I don't make any real efforts to completely avoid it. I usually have 1-2 servings of soy daily. I will add some TVP with my quinoa for the added protein. Another thing I do is rotate between TVP and Tempeh (supposedly free of those nasty phytoestrogens due to fermentation) every other day or so. TVP is just so damn cheap!!! I don't remember where exactly but I read that soy isolates are the most problematic. I agree with this approach 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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