Firefighter911 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 What is the difference between Animal Protein VS Vegan Protein on muscles. I must know why people on a standard diet can still inflate their muscles. Thank you very muchPatrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb123 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Some of this topic is discussed in the book The China Study. Maybe that will help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Joe Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 What is the difference between Animal Protein VS Vegan Protein on muscles. I must know why people on a standard diet can still inflate their muscles. Thank you very muchPatrick Not sure what you mean. but this vegan has no problem inflating his muscles. viewtopic.php?f=24&t=16592&start=720 Are you talking protein or steroids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefighter911 Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 I want to know if there is a difference in the process of ''muscle building'' depending on the type of ''protein'' you eat ( Animal or Vegan )Does muscle fibers built on animal protein contain fat within ? or around them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Joe Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 I want to know if there is a difference in the process of ''muscle building'' depending on the type of ''protein'' you eat ( Animal or Vegan )Does muscle fibers built on animal protein contain fat within ? or around them ?From what I understand Protein no matter what it's source is broken down into amino acids, and it is these acids that is what your body uses to build muscle and other cell structures.I think the main difference in the source of proteins is the animal hormones that one ingests along with the proteins that affect our body more adversely then plant based proteins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubby2112 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 What Joe said. One reason you might find better results on animal protein is because of hormones and other growth factors. That said, animal protein does raise levels of IGF-1 to a greater extent than most plant proteins (save for processed ones, which still might not approach animal products, I don't have specific studies comparing the two). This issue here is that IGF-1 (Insulin-Like Growth Factor), besides signaling anabolism, also signal growth elsewhere, including cancer cells. Give and take. There is one study showing that a highly alkaline (vegan or mostly vegan) diet seems to prevent sarcopenia (muscle waisting) in the elderly. Whether this carries over to a young person trying to build muscle, I don't know. In the end, I think meat probably has a slight advantage. Nothing major, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsedoc Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 I've had it stated to me by trainers that non-meat eaters have less dense muscle than meat eaters but then they looked at me and said it must not be true. As Vegan Joe stated all protein must be broken down to amino acids first to be used. I think that many non-meat eaters tend to eat processed fake meat stuff and eating processed protein could be an issue or too much soy and the phytoestrogens could also. I eat very simply and most of my amino acids come from dark leafy greens which I eat a ton of! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjs Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 I eat very simply and most of my amino acids come from dark leafy greens which I eat a ton of!You'd have to eat a ton, you only get about a gram of protein per cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsedoc Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 I eat very simply and most of my amino acids come from dark leafy greens which I eat a ton of!You'd have to eat a ton, you only get about a gram of protein per cup. Well, the massive amounts that most people think you need are not accurate. I come closer to the 80/10/10 style of eating raw vegan. Still have plenty of quality muscle. I find that real food works the best versus isolated proteins and versus soy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djshrew Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 I eat very simply and most of my amino acids come from dark leafy greens which I eat a ton of!You'd have to eat a ton, you only get about a gram of protein per cup. Well, the massive amounts that most people think you need are not accurate. I come closer to the 80/10/10 style of eating raw vegan. Still have plenty of quality muscle. I find that real food works the best versus isolated proteins and versus soy. Horsedoc, do you have a journal on here? I'd really love to see what a typical days food consists of for you.also, I checked out the link in your signature, nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 I eat very simply and most of my amino acids come from dark leafy greens which I eat a ton of!You'd have to eat a ton, you only get about a gram of protein per cup. Well, the massive amounts that most people think you need are not accurate. I come closer to the 80/10/10 style of eating raw vegan. Still have plenty of quality muscle. I find that real food works the best versus isolated proteins and versus soy. The massive amount people "think" you "need" for what? No one is saying you can't have or build muscle on the 811 diet but it certainly isn't optimal when it comes to adding muscle mass for several reasons. Dark leafy greens can provide some protein but to rely on it as a major source of protein seems foolish to me if your goal is to gain lean body mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubby2112 Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Horsedoc, are you the same horsedoc as on the Dr. Fuhrman forums? I have been meaning to ask you that. I haven't been there in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefighter911 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 I think it's better to focus on amino-acids than on protein itself. Protein is just a middle man: the body must break it down into amino-acids to be used where needed. If you want to build a house, you buy raw materials. You don't destroy or cut big chucks of your neighbor's house to then break it down into ''raw-like'' material to then build your house... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 If you want to build a house, you buy raw materials. You don't destroy or cut big chucks of your neighbor's house to then break it down into ''raw-like'' material to then build your house... This might be true I honestly don't know much about construction but I know it has little to do with human physiology. From how you describe the house building process it seems to be the opposite because if you want to build muscle you first eat protein, break it down to amino acids and then build protein. Of course you can eat only EAA powders as a protein source but I would not recommend it. So when you say that we should focus on amino acids and not protein, what exactly do you mean? It sounds like you've been hanging around rawguru websites a bit too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubby2112 Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 If you want to build a house, you buy raw materials. You don't destroy or cut big chucks of your neighbor's house to then break it down into ''raw-like'' material to then build your house... This might be true I honestly don't know much about construction but I know it has little to do with human physiology. From how you describe the house building process it seems to be the opposite because if you want to build muscle you first eat protein, break it down to amino acids and then build protein. Of course you can eat only EAA powders as a protein source but I would not recommend it. So when you say that we should focus on amino acids and not protein, what exactly do you mean? It sounds like you've been hanging around rawguru websites a bit too much. You could also just cook the shit out of all your food, but that would still likely only break the proteins down into peptides. Maybe he is talking about focusing on the amino acid composition of proteins, not aminos in their free form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Hmm maybe but he should really have written things differently. Instead of "I think it's better to focus on amino-acids than on protein itself." he could have written "I think it's better to focus on the amino acid composition OF proteins". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefighter911 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 Before claiming something i usually try it, or read about people who did it. As for myself, i'm a raw vegan since december. Physically, everything improved: I lost fat that were stuck in my tissues. At the gym I'm stronger, faster with more endurance. My performance on Fires dramatically improved. I only red about the protein myth 2 weeks ago. And it makes alot of sense. I was trying to explain to my fellow firefighters that being a raw vegan actually increased my physical ( and mental ) performance....not that they didn't believe me, but they were stuck on the protein question. Instead of giving your body proteins, why not focus on eating food that contain a shit load of aminoacids. Your body will then do what every it needs to do...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubby2112 Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Before claiming something i usually try it, or read about people who did it. As for myself, i'm a raw vegan since december. Physically, everything improved: I lost fat that were stuck in my tissues. At the gym I'm stronger, faster with more endurance. My performance on Fires dramatically improved. I only red about the protein myth 2 weeks ago. And it makes alot of sense. I was trying to explain to my fellow firefighters that being a raw vegan actually increased my physical ( and mental ) performance....not that they didn't believe me, but they were stuck on the protein question. Instead of giving your body proteins, why not focus on eating food that contain a shit load of aminoacids. Your body will then do what every it needs to do...? I still don't really get what you mean about giving your body amino acids. In raw food circles, people constantly talk about foods containing amino acids, when these amino acids are actually woven into proteins. When you eat food for protein, you eat it for amino acids. There isn't a difference, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefighter911 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 I must have been unclear. When you stop eating meat, people always say: you'll be protein deficient. Instead of aiming at eating an X amount of protein per meal ( as most people on standard diet ), you should focus on fruts-vegetables that contain amino-acids. Amino-acids are also found ''by themselves'' , outside of a protein chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefighter911 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 Your body then assemble any kind of protein it needs, considering his next ''task''. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefighter911 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 I just love the protein myth theory because i see it working on myself. I don't eat met, no dairy, no transformed food or cooked food. and I've noticed increasing performance. I can do more chin-ups, more often. More cardio. More muscles, less fat...all that without ''complete-incomplete'' proteins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjs Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Amino-acids are also found ''by themselves'' , outside of a protein chain.Where did you get that? There are some naturally occurring free amino acids but in very small amounts. Breaking down proteins into amino acids is a common part of life, no reason to make it seem like the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefighter911 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 Where, the animals we eat, do they get their amino-acids from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefighter911 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 AMINO ACIDS are found in all foods except oil. Despite claims to the contrary, all vegetables, legumes, and grains contain all the essential amino acids. They may not contain high amounts of some, but, if combined with another vegetable source, all the essential amino acid requirements are met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 No not table sugar either for example. And free form amino acids are pretty rare, cheese and tomato has a bit more than usual. Raw foodist often make the mistake of thinking enzymes = free form amino acids but enzymes are also just proteins and those proteins doesn't dissapear once you cook something. If you want to focus on getting amino acids you focus on getting protein, it's really the only way unless you supplement with free form amino acids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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