The most dangerous exercises?

[boardn10]

When I say dangersous, I refer to possibility of injury and an exercises that could lead to future problems, whether it be with the back or joints, etc. I will elaborate later when I have time but wanted to get some of these out there now to get some feedback from others. These are what I consider some of the exerice which should be avoided for various reasons. I arrived at this list after 23 years of lifting experience and experimentation, after reading over 40 books on the human body, exercise, and bodybuilding, and after talking to quite a few orthopaedic specialists, some of whom have worked closely with the local Philadelphia pro sports teams and college teams.

 

Behind the Neck press(Overhead press?) - can lead to many shoulder problems, places the shoulder into dislocation position. Now, on the overhead press I personally have found having your palms face your head leads to much less shoulder discomfort and from reading appears to be more biomechanically correct.

Upright row - Impingement of the shoulder. Can result in future shoulder problems.

Leg Press - high risk of low back injury! Very unnatural movement. You could use a smaller range of motion, but why? Better off doing squats, hack squats and dare I say smith machine squats(although I avoid because they can be hell on knees), lunges, step ups, etc. Especially if you go deep, can round the lower back.

Leg Extension - shearing and compression stress/force on the knee joint

I also do very little on a Smith machine other than maybe shrugs here and there.

 

I'd love to have a conversation around this subject and I will try to add what I have learned and understand to be dangersous about each exercise later today or this weekend.

 

The list is longer in my mind, but I just awoke and am trying to juggle making breakfast and getting my daughter ready for school. Ha.

Edited May 21, 2010 by boardn10

[chrisjs]

Behind the Neck press(Overhead press?) - can lead to many shoulder problems, places the shoulder into dislocation position. Now, on the overhead press I personally have found having your palms face your head leads to much less shoulder discomfort and from reading appears to be more biomechanically correct.

Are you first talking about behind the neck, then in front of the neck? Having my palms face my head for an overhead press sure doesn't feel natural.

[medman]

Yeah, I've never heard of a supinated (palms facing you) overhead press either. I will tell you what I found to be very comfortable and advantageous: when an experienced powerlifter showed me how to use a thumbless grip on it. THAT felt great. Did it a bunch with low weight to get used to the feel/set-up, but I've been loving it ever since.

 

If you want to talk about dangerous exercises, how about the idiots you see doing squats on bosu balls? I just want to scream at them. If you want a quicker way to blow out a knee ligament, I don't think I've heard of one.

 

I agree about those behind-the-neck presses, though. What's worse is that, at my gym, I often see someone doing a behind the neck press ON A SMITH MACHINE. It's like a perfect storm of completely awkward movements to injure your shoulders.

[Fallen_Horse]

The deadlift, because everyone does it wrong.

[endcruelty]

bent over row ruined me about 10 years back

[xCx]

Every exercise is potentially harmful to you if done incorrectly.

[Fallen_Horse]

Every exercise is potentially harmful to you if done incorrectly.

Not the laying down on your back exercise.

[Barb123]

Okay, I'm most likely going to appear uneducated, but at the risk of looking dumb, why the risk with the smith machine and squats? My trainer opts for that exercise versus just regular squats. Thanks for helping me understand.....obviously I don't want an injury either.

[cubby2112]

Okay, I'm most likely going to appear uneducated, but at the risk of looking dumb, why the risk with the smith machine and squats? My trainer opts for that exercise versus just regular squats. Thanks for helping me understand.....obviously I don't want an injury either.

 

It forces you in a straight line versus allowing your body to move in a natural plane. Can put a lot of torque on certain joints.

[boardn10]

Hi there, I was referring the shoulder press with dumbells. And for me having palms face the side of my head feels a lot more natural than having palms face forward. This is with dumbells...so your palms are facing your ears. In football terms...think of an official signalling a touchdown.....palms face the side of the head.

 

Again, I have no experience with shoulder injury as a result of shoulder presses...this is more from what I have read through research and talking to various exercie physiologists and Ortho's. Results may vary.

 

To me, behind the next presses feel about as aunnatural as it gets. Dumbell and front presses such as Military feel much better and less prone to injury.

 

Yep, thumbless grip is great too!!

 

endcruelty......how did the bent row hurt you? Was it a poor form thing? Dumbells or barbell?

[Guest]

Okay, I'm most likely going to appear uneducated, but at the risk of looking dumb, why the risk with the smith machine and squats? My trainer opts for that exercise versus just regular squats. Thanks for helping me understand.....obviously I don't want an injury either.

Hey Barb123,

get outta the smith machine! use dumbells instead but rest them on your shoulders (one plate on your shoulder and the other one is reaching for the sky) It forces you to use proper form and limits the level or risk to your back. When I first started squating this way I was skeptical until after my first leg day.

[Barb123]

Thanks Cubby and Ronhan. I'm going to add more regular squats in....I just can't seem to handle as much weight with regular ones and can't seem to get as low of a squat. I guess this gives me something to work towards. Thank you again for replying.

[medman]

Thanks Cubby and Ronhan. I'm going to add more regular squats in....I just can't seem to handle as much weight with regular ones and can't seem to get as low of a squat. I guess this gives me something to work towards. Thank you again for replying.

 

The reason you can't do as much weight as on the Smith machine is because the bar on a Smith machine is counterbalanced to 0 pounds. It doesn't add 45 pounds like an olympic bar. The reason you can't get as low is because you haven't developed the combination of strength, flexibility and balance that a deep free squat takes. With the smith machine, the bar can't move forward, back, or side to side, so you could be "leaning" and the bar would keep your balance for you.

 

Start with low weight, and work on getting deeper and deeper. Three months after starting regular squatting, my range of motion is lightyears beyond where I started.

[Barb123]

Thankyou Medman. That helps me understand. Well here I go with the whole new approach to squatting!

[boardn10]

Barb, concentrate a lot on form and maybe find someone who knows how to squat well, help out. Also, careful trying to go too low. Too low I find counterproductive and dangerous. I personally have never gone below thighs parallel to the floor.

[VeganEssentials]

Too low I find counterproductive and dangerous. I personally have never gone below thighs parallel to the floor.

 

Actually, going below parallel causes less shear on the knee than squats that are less than parallel depth. The issue many people have with going too low is that they're weak out of the bottom position, thus it tips them forward and causes a loss of stability and can lead to injuries if you're not confident and stable going all the way down. There's nothing wrong with it, though - as has been said here before, Olympic lifters go as low as you can in a squat position (particularly, when catching a clean way down deep), and knee problems are a rarity to those who squat in such a manner. Again, you must have the core strength and ability to be stable in a rock-bottom position to be safe, but there's definitely nothing dangerous about it, and productivity-wise, if you can squat a weight down to absolute rock-bottom, you can be sure that same weight will feel like a breeze when you take it to parallel only

[sinisterkungfu]

Hi there, I was referring the shoulder press with dumbells. And for me having palms face the side of my head feels a lot more natural than having palms face forward. This is with dumbells...so your palms are facing your ears. In football terms...think of an official signalling a touchdown.....palms face the side of the head.

 

Again, I have no experience with shoulder injury as a result of shoulder presses...this is more from what I have read through research and talking to various exercie physiologists and Ortho's. Results may vary.

 

 

I just blew out my shoulder doing those a couple weeks ago. Wasn't a complete dislocation fortunately, but it did put me out of the gym for a while. I've had problems with that shoulder before though.

[boardn10]

Thanks for the info. I had understood that it was unsafe to go low.......guess that is incorrect.

 

One thing I know, during the descent phase of a squat, leg press, or hack squat, etc, do not allow the knees to extend beyond your toes. The further your knees travel over your feet, the greater the shearing forces on the patellar tendon and ligament in the knee.

 

I have read in a lot of bodybuilding books that the top of your thighs should be parallel to the floor in a well-executed squat. Still confused on that one.

 

With my nerve issues that may stem from the back......I fear I will make things worse if I continue to sqaut due to spinal compression IF that would even be a reality. I hear different information on this topic.

 

I might add that I am on the fence with the leg press now. Did some leg pressing the other day and have been doing some more reading....so much of it depends on the machine and your form.

 

To add another exercise - how about the Pec Deck? This places your shoulder into the dislocation position. Better to do bench flys.

[VeganEssentials]

Even the recommendation for the knees to not go past the toes is a bit of an outdated statement that many "experts" still pass off. The position of the knees will be determined by numerous factors including bone length, leverages, squat stance and foot width, etc., and for some people to squat deep and comfortably, there's no other way to do it besides letting the knees go forward. The deeper you go, many times, the more the knees will need to shoot forward over the toes to be in the optimal positioning, such as this:

 

http://www.coachkeats.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Snatch_with_very_low_squat_2.jpg

 

Using Olympic lifters as an example again, these are people who often catch heavy cleans in rock-bottom positions and need to front squat back out of the lowest possible point, lower than anyone normally will squat, letting knees go well past toes, and they suffer from far fewer knee issues than most average gym trainees. And, these are people who often squat DAILY, some might even squat twice daily, so many of them have squatted more in 6 months than the rest of us will in a lifetime. Their high bar, close stance style makes it advantageous to not focus on keeping the shins vertical, which is designed more for wider powerlifting style squatting that is focused more on incorporating the hips and glutes than being primarly quad/ham dominant. Many times, it is simply bad technique that causes injury over anything else. Not to say that anyone should strive to shoot their knees forward, but depending on your mechanics and squat style, it will be necessary for some people to be able to squat optimally to use such a style based on their body type and stance. Actually, as I've found out, my knees have always felt better by making sure to squat to rock bottom from time to time, it's when I DON'T go deep that I tend to experience more delayed soreness in the knees. Go figure

 

And to agree partially on leg presses, so many of the machines out there are garbage. I used to find that leg press machines years ago actually felt comfortable, but now, every one I use feels downright crappy, which is why they're only used for me during light rehab stuff and never for primary leg work. The old machines that put you at a 90 degree angle with wide foot plates were decent (no replacement for squatting, of course ), but the new "safer" machines that essentially push you out of the seat when the weight comes down on you are pretty much garbage unless they're the only option you've got.

[boardn10]

Don't many of these guys end up with bad knees? I have read that....but I guess you would know. I have never followed power lifting closely.

 

How about compression of the spine and nerve issues? I fear for pinched nerves and other similar damage from compresisoin of the spine doing squats. But, I think a lot of this would be due to poor form and too heavy a weight.

[medman]

I don't think you could cause any pinched nerves from doing squats. There are only two ways the spine could actually compress in a way that leads to pinched nerves: one is by stress fractures in the vertebrae, and the other is from what we call degenerative disc disease, where the cartilage cushions between the vertebrae shrink.

 

Weight-bearing exercise increases bone density, and bone density is the biggest protective factor against stress fractures. As for the intervertebral discs, they usually shrink due to dehydration, not because of compressive forces applied to the spine. Besides, when you're holding a loaded barbell on your shoulders, all your core muscles are tensed to support the weight. It's not like it's propped up on your spine. The spine might be the frame, but the muscles are doing the work supporting that weight.

[bronco]

I don't think you could cause any pinched nerves from doing squats. There are only two ways the spine could actually compress in a way that leads to pinched nerves: one is by stress fractures in the vertebrae, and the other is from what we call degenerative disc disease, where the cartilage cushions between the vertebrae shrink.

 

Weight-bearing exercise increases bone density, and bone density is the biggest protective factor against stress fractures. As for the intervertebral discs, they usually shrink due to dehydration, not because of compressive forces applied to the spine. Besides, when you're holding a loaded barbell on your shoulders, all your core muscles are tensed to support the weight. It's not like it's propped up on your spine. The spine might be the frame, but the muscles are doing the work supporting that weight.

The above is true for squatting with correct form, which I guess is what medman meant.

 

Squatting with bad form, ie a flexed spine, is a different story and might well lead to slipped discs and pinched nerves.

[boardn10]

Bronco, what is your definition of a flexed spine....just so I have a clear picture in my head and we are on the same page.

[medman]

The above is true for squatting with correct form, which I guess is what medman meant.

 

Squatting with bad form, ie a flexed spine, is a different story and might well lead to slipped discs and pinched nerves.

 

Yeah, I was talking about proper form.

 

Bronco, what is your definition of a flexed spine....just so I have a clear picture in my head and we are on the same page.

 

To flex the spine means to bend it forward, i.e. rounding/arching your back (picture an angry cat). Doing so puts lots of pressure on the front part of the intervertebral discs, which can cause a disc herniation. Disc herniations (aka slipped discs) often cause nerve impingements.

 

If you know what a "bad" deadlift looks like, THAT is a flexed spine, also known as an injury waiting to happen .

[Zack]

Yeah, I've never heard of a supinated (palms facing you) overhead press either.

 

Has to be with dumbbells. It does feel much more natural.

 

If you want to talk about dangerous exercises, how about the idiots you see doing squats on bosu balls? I just want to scream at them. If you want a quicker way to blow out a knee ligament, I don't think I've heard of one.

 

Why is this? I think it's a ridiculous thing to do either way, but just curious.