To those who disparage allopathic (mainstream) medicine...

[medman]

Our lecture on "food as medicine" talked about the "new 4 food groups" : 1) vegetables 2) fruits 3) plant protein foods, and 4) animal protein foods, along with a suggestion that for health and environmental reasons, we should all consider going vegan.

 

Just wanted to share that to show you that not all doctors are anti-veg, and that, in fact, we're being taught that vegetarianism and veganism are the best diets for our health.

 

The lecture also included a step-by-step breakdown of all the different groups of plants/vegetables/seeds/nuts etc, and studies showing what the benefits of each were. There was also a step-by-step breakdown of animal foods, and studies showing why each one was bad for you.

[vegimator]

Nice! That's reassuring.

[xjohanx]

Yeah but dude medicines are toxins and toxins toxify your body so you need to detox and cleanse and do yoga dude. I won't trust doctors untill they are selling green powders and promise me cures for cancer.

[coroho]

I went into my doctor shortly after going vegetarian to get blood samples. The nurse was giving me shit like "you need your meat lol," but to my surprise when I mentioned it to my doctor he said, "Oh, sure. There's no reason someone can't be perfectly healthy on a vegan diet. In many ways, it can actually be healthier."

[lobsteriffic]

When I told my doctor I was vegan she immediately sent me for blood work. On the sheet where she ticks off what tests to do it has a place for a diagnosis. She wrote "Diagnosis: VEGAN" I found that pretty funny...

 

Other than that though she's been pretty cool about it. She's actually an obstetrician but I go to her just as a general practitioner. She pushes folic acid everytime I see her in case I have a baby (I haven't brought that up, but given that she's an obstetrician I guess that's just what she thinks about). But I don't think that's because I'm vegan, I think she pushes it on everyone.

 

Either way, super relieving to find out that the benefits of plant-based diets are being discussed. If you don't mind me asking, which school do you go to Medman?

[Barb123]

...wish my doc would've attended that class.....maybe it's time to find a different doc.

[Im Your Man]

"Diagnosis: VEGAN"...

Ahah, I would like that doctors write "Diagnosis: MEAT-EATER" or "NECROPHAGOUS. Go see a psychiatrist."... Written in characters that nobody is able to read.

 

Medman, do you think that because a small pourcentage of doctors say that a vegan diet can be healthy I will no longer disparage allopa(the)thic medecine?

It is much better to avoid the cause of disease or stop being exposed to it rather than to take drugs and continuing being sick.

It is a pity that students in medecine learn by heart all the symptoms for all the diseases and which medecine to treat it, which pill, drug, vaccine, etc. All the rest does not exist: to talk with the patient, nutrition, emotional background of the patient ... This medical system is not holistic at all, while health includes many things, all those things that we don't teach in medecine schools: the importance of emotions, hygiene, rest, nutrition, stress, clean environment, physical activity, self healing power, energy, etc. Mainstream medecine is good at saving lives each time when it comes to mild issues, like each times someone has an heart attack... But it is very poor at solving chronic issues, like all the people suffering all life long of painful back, arms, legs, migraine and chronic diseases.

Beyond this mechanical way of treating diseases and working with patients, there is a world in which each individual is responsible for the choices he makes, for his life, health, etc. So instead of swallowing pills the person actually discovers she can take control of some aspects in her life like nutrition, the place she lives, etc, so a whole new dimension of the human body opens and the person can take an active part in her life instead of not taking care of anything and to trust a doctor who doesn't really give a damn about helping people for real.

 

In Eastern medecine like Ayurveda it is much more holistic and human approach. People in Thailand and India go see a Thai massage therapist or an Ayurvedic doctor, receiving a Thai yoga massage is actually the first thing they do when they don't feel well and it makes miracles. People who had suffered for years get rid of pains with just one or two massages, metta, and by following some vedic lifestyle advice.

[vegimator]

I was with you until "self healing power, energy, etc."

[medman]

It is a pity that students in medecine learn by heart all the symptoms for all the diseases and which medecine to treat it, which pill, drug, vaccine, etc. All the rest does not exist: to talk with the patient, nutrition, emotional background of the patient ... This medical system is not holistic at all, while health includes many things, all those things that we don't teach in medecine schools: the importance of emotions, hygiene, rest, nutrition, stress, clean environment, physical activity, self healing power, energy, etc. Mainstream medecine is good at saving lives each time when it comes to mild issues, like each times someone has an heart attack... But it is very poor at solving chronic issues, like all the people suffering all life long of painful back, arms, legs, migraine and chronic diseases.

 

IYM, I don't know where you get your information. The past two months, we have talked almost exclusively about "the importance of emotions, hygiene, rest, nutrition, stress, clean environment, physical activity" in our Integration unit before moving on to clerkship (in-hospital training). These things are NOT ignored by all doctors, and are especially not ignored by the new/good ones . Actually, it's most often the patient who neglects these things. We try to tell them to eat well and exercise, but they don't. We offer them resources to help manage their weight, but they don't follow through. But take a pill to lower your cholesterol? Sure! That they'll do. So we give them lipitor, and it helps prevent a heart attack. We tried to get them to do the rest, but they didn't. The pharmaceutical culture is probably perpetuated more by patients than by doctors...doctors just end up relying on meds because the patients refuse to do anything else. And it would be against our oath to say "Well, you're not putting in much effort, so no pills for you", so pills become the only way they manage their health issues.

 

The other day, I was performing an invasive chronic pain treatment on a middle-aged woman (without going into detail, it involved a very large needle going into her spine). After her treatment, my staff tried to explain to her that doing gentle yoga regularly would provide her with better pain relief and functional improvement than the injections, and she basically laughed at how "out there" the suggestion was and said there was no way she would do that. I have seen this time and time again. So IYM, don't oversimplify and say that doctors are only about prescribing meds. Here was a case of us trying to prescribe yoga, and it was the patient who insisted on getting invasive injections instead. Patients have the right to refuse any medical treatment they want, so our only option is to stick with the injections because of our duty to try to help her.

 

Also, small note: heart attacks aren't "mild" issues .

 

And Lobster, I'm at U of O.

[Northstar]

Very good point medman. It really is the patients just as much or more than the doctors, not everyone is as interested in alternatives as people in a fitness and lifestyle forum. Could you really think that the same people going to Mick Dees everyday want to take action over their lifestyle? Hell no... they want a quick fix.

[Im Your Man]

I was with you until "self healing power, energy, etc."

So according to you the human body cannot heal itself? Hmm, interesting... If your body cannot heal itself, I wish you good luck with all the toxins and pollutants without the cleansing power of your liver. The body heals each second, 24/7 against all the germ, virus, bacteria, microbes, fungus, cuts, it repairs and builds muscle, tissue, cells, etc... The body is the only thing that can truly heal/cure. All the external things can only HELP. Rest and good food will allow the body to heal itself, junk food and stress might HARM.

And, energy does not exist? The universe is made of energy, and evrything in the universe, including us. Healing techniques like Reiki, acupuncture, Thai massage work with the meridians, the Sen lines... Those techniques that work with energy are very anciant and are still here today and will be in the future, because it helped to cure/heal thousands of persons. If there would be a scientific study to prove that it works the results would be positive.

 

Medman, yes you're right "mild" is not the right word, actually I meant the opposite... Severe or acute issues... So allopathy is good for road accidents and stuff like that, but cannot really help for chronic issues and pains like fibromyalgia for instance.

Sorry if I seemed harsh in my last post, but my point is that most doctors dont advice to do yoga to their patients. Maybe they dont say it because they know the patient will not do it, but still, at least they should say it. You'be surprised at how much people love to finally take care of themselves, take control of their life, they feel as if they are born again, its a new life, they are happy to feel much better than when they were slaves of others, meds, tv and their boring job and tired to do the samething day after day.

I'm happy to hear the new young doctors are different... How many good doctors is there? I still say that mainstream doctors are specialized in using meds. In French there's another word for doctor (docteur) it is médecin... Medecine man, or Medman... They use meds, which are drugs. I went to see doctors a few times during my life and they barely say something or answer my questions and I always go out of their office with a paper with meds badly written on it, most of time I don't use it, and then I heal (yes, with self healing power). I went to see a doctor because I had questions and I was worried, etc. It's always 2 minutes and then they want you out of their office. My girlfriend waited 4 hours and then the doctor didn't even LOOKED at her! She entered and he gave her a piece of paper without even lifting his head. He didn't even know if the patient was male, female, or even robot or alien... It is because a few minutes earlier the doctor's assistant met my gf and made the diagnosis...

It must be very rare that a doctor gives advice for lifestyle or recommands yoga or a vegan diet for instance... Either they give meds or they send the patient to see another specialist, if its an alternative medecine doctor yes, there could be lifestyle tips etc...

Problem is nowadays everything is specialized. The doctor diagnoses and gives drug, nutritionist gives diet recommandations, etc.

Its really new since modern science and doctors agree that too much red meat is unhealthy, but its been thousands of years since Ayurvedic doctors prone vegeterianism. For some people they will recommand some fish and chicken but that's it.

[Zack]

Mainstream medecine is good at saving lives each time when it comes to mild issues, like each times someone has an heart attack...

 

 

funny

 

I still agree with you though, in some regard at least. However, as someone with a chronic condition, I recognize the importance of mainstream medicine.

 

That being said, I've done more for healing myself by lifestyle choices than any doctor has.

[beforewisdom]

Our lecture on "food as medicine" talked about the "new 4 food groups" : 1) vegetables 2) fruits 3) plant protein foods, and 4) animal protein foods, along with a suggestion that for health and environmental reasons, we should all consider going vegan.

 

Just wanted to share that to show you that not all doctors are anti-veg, and that, in fact, we're being taught that vegetarianism and veganism are the best diets for our health.

 

The lecture also included a step-by-step breakdown of all the different groups of plants/vegetables/seeds/nuts etc, and studies showing what the benefits of each were. There was also a step-by-step breakdown of animal foods, and studies showing why each one was bad for you.

 

It only took a couple of decades of mocking at all levels of society to get medical schools to begin teaching nutrition, but it looks like it is starting.

 

Sarcasm aside, that is the pace of change (slow) in the real world with big institutions.

 

It is really cool to hear. I'm sure it will be a few more years before it picks up enough steam to be reported by the media, so I am thankful that we had an insider give us a heads up of this bit of progressive change.

[beforewisdom]

I went into my doctor shortly after going vegetarian to get blood samples. The nurse was giving me shit like "you need your meat lol," but to my surprise when I mentioned it to my doctor he said, "Oh, sure. There's no reason someone can't be perfectly healthy on a vegan diet. In many ways, it can actually be healthier."

 

I only had one doctor in my entire life ask me what my eating was like and meat/nomeat was not part of it.

 

I stopped getting crap from doctors when I figured out that I didn't need to tell them how I ate. Never had a problem with that policy.

[beforewisdom]

 

IYM, I don't know where you get your information. The past two months, we have talked almost exclusively about "the importance of emotions, hygiene, rest, nutrition, stress, clean environment, physical activity" in our Integration unit before moving on to clerkship (in-hospital training).

 

Please don't confuse the conversation with facts...

 

 

These things are NOT ignored by all doctors, and are especially not ignored by the new/good ones . Actually, it's most often the patient who neglects these things.

 

I see a few popular news articles a year to that effect. A few years ago a doctor (indelicately) told a patient she was fat, had diabetes and that if she didn't lose weight she would die. I've seen Dr. Esselstyn speak a few times. People always ask him why he doesn't do a holistic program like Dr. Ornish does. He always replies that people only have so many behavioral changes in them, so he just wants to promote the most effective one for his patients and not push his luck.

 

Human nature, all of us are guilty of it, including me. We all have patterns that are hard for us to break, that it would behoove us to break and that we don't.

 

It is one thing for a health enthusiast to try a new diet or exercise at the suggestion of a doctor, but to make a major change with an area of endeavor that has never been part of your life or your thoughts, as well as having it thrust on you is much, much harder.

 

Also, small note: heart attacks aren't "mild" issues .

 

Blame the media for the phrase "mild heart attack", that is what they use every time Dick Cheney gets one and doesn't die.

[BlueRose]

"Diagnosis: VEGAN"...

Ahah, I would like that doctors write "Diagnosis: MEAT-EATER" or "NECROPHAGOUS. Go see a psychiatrist."... Written in characters that nobody is able to read.

 

[BlueRose]

I went into my doctor shortly after going vegetarian to get blood samples. The nurse was giving me shit like "you need your meat lol," but to my surprise when I mentioned it to my doctor he said, "Oh, sure. There's no reason someone can't be perfectly healthy on a vegan diet. In many ways, it can actually be healthier."

 

I dealt with that crap from one of the doctors and if she's the only one available I'll refuse to go to her now. Kept trying to tell her I don't eat dairy but kept pushing me to eat Activa. Aieee...

[InmostLight]

Ha, my doctor is thankfully accepting of being veg, she sent me for a blood test though, and everything was fine except for my iron was a little lower than average.

 

Regarding spiritual / inner energies, it really is something that goes hand in hand with a balanced lifestyle and something that is commonly dismissed as an esoteric concept, especially in the western world.

 

About a year ago I decided to see if I could find something that could rid my general anxiety. I went to the doctor and she recommended I try effexor, an anti-depressant. This made me feel super the first day, and then every day after that I had zero energy. There was a time when I could not keep awake at all, and I was getting decent sleep. I had four coffees and an energy drink in a row at this time, and I fell asleep right after. People were asking 'what's wrong with you?' in a concerned manner. This is amongst other things, like sudden anxiety attacks at night, intense sweating, and sexual side effects. Check out the list of side effects.

 

I quit the anti-depressant and decided not to try another. Effexor is also the most addictive anti-depressant on the market, so i was lucky I didn't get addicted. I started reading about spirituality and learned a lot about self-healing and prana (inner energy). By being aware of your energy, and through mindfulness, you start to remove addictive forms (thought forms, emotional forms, physical forms) from the way you perceive the world, and it changes your perspective physically and mentally. I no longer feel anxiety and my expectations are dimmed, so I'm happier and see the world in a completely different way.

 

In extreme cases I can see how the application of modern medicine is useful. The problem is people are relying on chemicals for the smallest diagnostics. Chemicals that strongly affects many faculties of the body / mind, more than the ones they try to target for helping.

[Marcina]

This thread is awesome.

 

When I told my doctor I went vegan, he just went "okay. Make sure you get enough iron"

That's it.

 

I'm not a vegan anymore for several reasons, but I still don't eat meat. My current diet is probably the best I've ever had. Ive actually managed to quit taking anti-depressants after nearly 10 years and NOT flip out. The last time I tried to stop taking it was about 2 years ago. I was a raw-food vegan then, and probably not getting the nutrients I needed. I went batsh!t crazy.

 

I took Effexor when I was a teenager actually.. That drug was terrible. It actually made my anxiety worse, and I had tremors and stuff. I only took it for a few months before I stopped taking it. The drug I experienced the least amount of side effects with was Prozac. I took that for 9 years.

[lobsteriffic]

Marcina if you don't mind me asking, what is in your diet now that isn't vegan? I know you said on another thread that you found fish helped your IBS. I'm not asking you to argue, I'm just curious because a friend of mine has IBS and is trying to figure out his diet.

[Marcina]

My diet? I'm still kinda working on it. Ever since I started eating fish again, I feel sooooo much better. I eat it a couple days a week. I incorporated eggs back into my diet too, but I still can't do dairy. After years of not consuming it, it's not something that's a big deal to me anyways. I prefer soy milk ^^

So I guess you could call me a pescatarian.

[lobsteriffic]

Okay thanks. I know he was trying to go vegan the same time he was getting diagnosed with IBS and I remembered the problems you had and how fish seemed to be helping.

[Marcina]

Being a vegan was hell on my IBS. I always had gas, cramping, aches, and pains. I didn't do well on it. I tried the raw thing. I tried gluten free and soy free, I tried taking flaxseed oil. Nothing helped. Every IBS patient is different though. Some have it severe, some have it moderate, and some have it mild.

My IBS got to the point where I avoided going out because the bloating, gas, and pain was too uncomfortable. I also had "leaky gas" where you like.. Fart and don't realize it until you clear the room. Most embarassing thing EVER. Or if I had to sneeze? Oh boy...

 

I don't experience situations like that anymore.

[lobsteriffic]

That's great!

[Marcina]

Probiotics are great too btw