robert Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 What are your thoughts about this website? It is made by an ex-vegan and focuses around former vegans sharing stories: http://letthemeatmeat.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegimator Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) It's written by my brother. We actually talked about it a bit here before and it's why I started posting on this board. My brother failed as a vegan. He didn't take B12 for something like the first 7 years of his being vegan (he only started when he developed restless leg syndrome) and didn't take any other supplements with any regularity. He moved from Austin with its plentiful sunshine to nyc and didn't take any precautions to make sure he was still getting any vitamin D. He didn't get his vitamin levels checked for the entire time that he was vegan (9 years) so we'll never know what he was deficient in, but I imagine it was something easily correctable. Also of note, he stopped eating gluten and soy aside from the occasional tempeh and miso after working at macrobiotic restaurants and upped his grain consumption to compensate. I wonder how many calories he was consuming and how much protein. He likes to present himself as the perfect example of the health vegan because he ate no sugar, lots of sea vegetables and very little processed food. However, he also did rice fasts, the master cleanse, avoided night shades, and most importantly, didn't pay attention to macro (or micro) nutrients. He gave up veganism after his best friend and roommate went from vegan to paleo which he did as well. It must have been hard for him going from the vegetarian co-op that he lived in in Austin to a new city where his only real vegan friend went pack to eating meat. He also was living a sedentary life. He simultaneously started eating meat and working out and he started feeling better so in his mind that proved that veganism is absolutely unhealthy. He launched his blog (in secret) after feeling that his new diet was distancing him from me because we argued about it a bit. Ironically, I had moved on and accepted that he was just going to eat whatever he wanted to now when I discovered that he was writing this blog. Now the blog is incredibly divisive and I don't really talk to him, but he continues with it because it gratifies him when other ex-vegans thank him I guess. A couple other things- he used to have a section on the blog called "sickly vegans." He went to veg*n events around the country taking photos mostly of old or scrawny vegans to mock them online. He even went to the veg festival in dc and got some photos of octopussoir and others from this board. He said that they were "swollen with soy protein" and caused vegans to unfortunately think that the diet was healthy. The bottom line was, he failed at veganism so he wants to tar and feather it to justify his new position. One last thing. I've been meat free for 12.5 years now - 2.5 years longer than he was. I've only been vegan for 5.5 years but I'm doing great. Edited June 12, 2010 by vegimator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegimator Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I'd be interested to hear your thoughts Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted June 12, 2010 Author Share Posted June 12, 2010 Oh, I totally forgot. I didn't realize this was his site. Someone sent it to me on Facebook so I passed it along here. I never really looked through the site very closely, just skimmed it for fun checked to see if I was on there in any way, as sometime I am on the Vegetarians are Evil type websites. Thanks for reminding me of who wrote it. I had forgotten til now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 For what it is worth here is a link to the original thread on VBB about that blog: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=20781&p=225143&hilit=letthemeatmeat#p225143 He deleted the blog post that inspired the start of that thread, but it is still in Googles Web Archives:http://bit.ly/8Pvf7S Jack Norris, vegan RD recently posted about this guys blog:http://jacknorrisrd.com/?p=1099 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Vegimator; I would like to thank you posting the other side of the story on the various web sites where this blog has come up. I appreciate that it took your time to do so and that it came at other costs. Your account provides a very useful perspective. I have no doubt that it has helped neutralize some of the effect of your brother's writing. Providing the other side of the story to your brother's account has probably already helped animals, helped the planet and helped other people. Thanks very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Trendy Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 What are your thoughts about this website? It is made by an ex-vegan and focuses around former vegans sharing stories: http://letthemeatmeat.com/ traitors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjs Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Whatever. I really don't understand this crap. I feel sorry for people who can't just do things for themselves and for causes they think are worthy. If you need to have that fast food with friends so you feel some sort of approval from them, that's unfortunate. If you give up being vegan and write up some whiny blog trying to justify it and trying to make fun of vegan, it's apparent you were doing it for someone else's approval and not for yourself. You fell off one bandwagon and are scrambling for another. I don't understand that. You get one life, friggin take ownership of it. It's not hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im Your Man Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Hmm, the title of his blog is Let Them Eat Meat... Vegans let meat-eaters eat meat, the proof is that they DO eat meat. It is them who make it hard for us to be vegan, there are less than 5% of restaurants that are vegan and there's even some pig genes in tomatoes, or fish oil in peanut butter and fruit juice, and almost everything "may contain traces of eggs and dairy" in it... Many schools, prisons and hospitals don't offer any vegan meals.And with his blog he's trying to convince people to eat meat and to not become vegan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcina Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I understand why he would want to write a blog though.When I was a vegan, I became very involved in the vegan community and joined several forums. I spoke with many other vegans, and sadly, they are the ones who turned me off of veganism. Although i did learn a lot, I mostly learned that vegans are, for the most part, difficult to get along with. If I tried to make a joke, or a point, or say something scientific, or even just socialize, I would often get "attacked" or receive snotty comments. Antisocial behaviour like that just make me say "fuck this" and distance myself away from the community. I left all the forums (except this one), and continued my vegan lifestyle without the rude interjects and comments from other vegans who just pissed me off with their know-it-all attitudes.Being a vegan is hard if you can't get along with other vegans, or if you have a hard time hanging out with your friends because there's nothing for you to eat at the pub. I tried my best to stay vegan, but eventually started incorporating eggs and fish back into my diet. I was never too into animal rights in the first place, and being a vegan just seemed pointless to me. My digestive system had a hard time with things like beans, nuts, seeds, and soy which are main sources of vegan protein. Since I have other sources in my diet now, I don't have nearly the amount of pain and stomach problems I used to have. That's my story as an ex-vegan.. And I must say, I can understand why the general population doesn't seem to like vegans very much. I deleted a lot of vegan "friends" from Facebook because they were so rude to either other people or to me. I only have a handful left. If vegans want to be accepted among the community, they ought to accept others too. If they can't, at least keep the rude comments to themselves. Trying to convert a meat-eater into a vegan when they don't want to be converted never works. It's a choice someone has to make on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen_Horse Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Marcina I didn't know this had happened! Sorry to hear about the switch back. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I understand why he would want to write a blog though.When I was a vegan, I became very involved in the vegan community and joined several forums. I spoke with many other vegans, and sadly, they are the ones who turned me off of veganism. Although i did learn a lot, I mostly learned that vegans are, for the most part, difficult to get along with. If I tried to make a joke, or a point, or say something scientific, or even just socialize, I would often get "attacked" or receive snotty comments. Antisocial behaviour like that just make me say "fuck this" and distance myself away from the community. I left all the forums (except this one), and continued my vegan lifestyle without the rude interjects and comments from other vegans who just pissed me off with their know-it-all attitudes.Being a vegan is hard if you can't get along with other vegans, or if you have a hard time hanging out with your friends because there's nothing for you to eat at the pub. I tried my best to stay vegan, but eventually started incorporating eggs and fish back into my diet. I was never too into animal rights in the first place, and being a vegan just seemed pointless to me. My digestive system had a hard time with things like beans, nuts, seeds, and soy which are main sources of vegan protein. Since I have other sources in my diet now, I don't have nearly the amount of pain and stomach problems I used to have. That's my story as an ex-vegan.. And I must say, I can understand why the general population doesn't seem to like vegans very much. I deleted a lot of vegan "friends" from Facebook because they were so rude to either other people or to me. I only have a handful left. If vegans want to be accepted among the community, they ought to accept others too. If they can't, at least keep the rude comments to themselves. Trying to convert a meat-eater into a vegan when they don't want to be converted never works. It's a choice someone has to make on their own. I am sorry that was your experience, I have had a vastly different experience with the community. Personally, I receive far more attacks from non-vegans than give. I think the reason a lot of vegans have developed a know-it-all attitude is in response to the treatment they received first from non-vegans, but that is a gross generalization as well. Diet is such a personal thing that at the same time is very public, and I think this is the inherent reason of conflict. "and being a vegan just seemed pointless to me"Can I ask you to elaborate on this? Do you mean pointless to you personally or pointless in general? If the latter, what is the point of doing anything you believe in? As for the original question, exactly whom is stopping who from eating meat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcina Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Being vegan was pointless to me because I didn't believe in it to the same extent my vegan peers did.They told me I was a terrible vegan for stuff like feeding my cats meat, or working for a non-vegan company. Everyone does non-vegan things. What about using electricity, plastic, driving cars, or living in a city that was put there by demolishing a wildlife habitat? That's what made it pointless. No matter what you do, animals die or suffer. People die and suffer too! People will continue to raise animals for food, hunt for fun, and keep pets. Do you think people will stop using oil because of the whole BP mess? Hell no! They won't stop eating meat either. I figured it was time to stop kidding myself into thinking I made a difference.Of course, I still don't eat meat. It disgusts me. I don't feel it's necessary for me to eat it. I can't digest it properly anyways. Kinda like corn. As far as feedback from non-vegans, I actually received quite a bit of support. Except from my family. They thought I was nuts.But I mean, if I get some mayo on my veggie burger, I'm not gonna bitch about it. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen_Horse Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 No matter what you do, animals die or suffer. Yes that's a sad truth. But there is an important value in not contributing to that suffering as much as possible. Why hurt things when you don't need to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I figured it was time to stop kidding myself into thinking I made a difference. This simply is not true, and I am grateful that all the individuals who have made great contributions in the past and present did not share the same sentiment. Every action, no matter how small or insignificant, has an equal and opposite re-action, its up to you to decide whether you want that reaction to be a positive or negative one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) If you give up being vegan and write up some whiny blog trying to justify it and trying to make fun of vegans, it's apparent you were doing it for someone else's approval and not for yourself. You fell off one bandwagon and are scrambling for another.You get one life, friggin take ownership of it. It's not hard. I've met plenty of ex-veg*ns. They gave it up, deciding that it wasn't for them. They moved on. I wonder about the ex-veg*ns who spend considerable amounts of their time writing books, articles or blogs trashing something that they are not into anymore. Maybe talking for years about the costs in pain, pollution and health involved with eating animal products and then starting to eat them again the next day kicks off a lot of painful self criticism. Trashing vegan beliefs and vegans may be a way of putting a cork in that. Who knows? Edited June 14, 2010 by beforewisdom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I understand why he would want to write a blog though. Really? It seems like you moved on from veganism to do something else with your energy and time. You aren't sinking time into cranking out a blog about something that isn't part of your life anymore. When I was a vegan, I became very involved in the vegan community and joined several forums. I spoke with many other vegans, and sadly, they are the ones who turned me off of veganism. Is that really correct? You wrote yourself that you only quit the vegan diet after you started having problems with your digestion. Although i did learn a lot, I mostly learned that vegans are, for the most part, difficult to get along with. Yet, here you are still posting on a vegan web board. We can't all be bad. For what it is worth I would agree that there is a large portion of the vegan community who are needlessly offensive with other people. I have had the same observation about chunks of people in other isms. Interestingly, I've heard conservative friends at work make similar complaints about their communities. Maybe it is just human nature that once you get a group going certain kinds of BS are going to happen. I think this is bad because when someone who is X is a dick to another person, that other person will tend to think "those Xs are a bunch of dicks and what they are about is BS!". It is probably also to pointless to write about it. If such people could see what they are doing by acting the way they do, then they probably wouldn't be acting like that in the first place. I left all the forums (except this one), and continued my vegan lifestyle without the rude interjects and comments from other vegans who just pissed me off with their know-it-all attitudes. People can't stand boredom. If they are bored too long, most people will begin creating drama to fill the void. This is exaggerated with web forums, as there is nothing else to do other than type casual conversations. I think the people in the community who are easier to get along with are the ones who are focused on doing things. They don't have boredom they need to fill up with drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Trendy Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 before: very good points/ replies!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted June 14, 2010 Author Share Posted June 14, 2010 beforewisdom is an excellent communicator from my experiences here. Lots of thoughtful and insightful info, comments and reactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Fission Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I figured it was time to stop kidding myself into thinking I made a difference. Every animal that is not killed because of how vegans live is a difference.You clearly don't see animals lives as worthy as your social status. If everyone became vegan would animals not have it better than they do now?Would they be free?HELL YES. Strange that people become vegans or vegetarians for the social recognition rather than the actual purpose of leaving the animals to live in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Fission Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I think this is bad because when someone who is X is a dick to another person, that other person will tend to think "those Xs are a bunch of dicks and what they are about is BS!". We're dicks! We're reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And people that like animals but still eat them are pussies. And people like the blog guy and Marcina are assholes. Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn't appropriate - and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from ass holes. I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don't let us fuck this asshole, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im Your Man Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Lol,Cold Fission this is one of the best post ever on this forum! Marcina, what is the big difference between meat and fish? Fish is meat also ... Otherwise we could say pig is not meat it's pig... Well that's true but you know what I mean... And eggs... It is a horrible food; most people will vomit if they swallow raw eggs like Rocky does in the first movie, lol ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I think this is bad because when someone who is X is a dick to another person, that other person will tend to think "those Xs are a bunch of dicks and what they are about is BS!". We're dicks! We're reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. FYI, there are a number of devoted vegans, vegetarians and even AR activists who stopped being veg*ns at one point in their lives before going back. One of those people may be Marcina someday. If not, posts like yours may be one contribution towards her deciding not to go that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Marcina, what is the big difference between meat and fish? Fish is meat also ... Otherwise we could say pig is not meat it's pig... Well that's true but you know what I mean... Agreed And eggs... It is a horrible food; most people will vomit if they swallow raw eggs like Rocky does in the first movie, lol ! I believe she wrote that one reason she is eating eggs is that it is a protein source she can eat without feeling digestive distress. Maybe there is something she can do that she,we don't know about now to solve that problem. Maybe someday she will be cured or her health situation would change. In my humble opinion, most people, if they get really uncomfortable after every time they eat, they are going to change the way they eat regardless of other issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Fission Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I think this is bad because when someone who is X is a dick to another person, that other person will tend to think "those Xs are a bunch of dicks and what they are about is BS!". We're dicks! We're reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks.And people that like animals but still eat them are pussies. And people like the blog guy and Marcina are assholes. Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn't appropriate - and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from ass holes. I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don't let us fuck this asshole, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit! FYI, there are a number of devoted vegans, vegetarians and even AR activists who stopped being veg*ns at one point in their lives before going back. One of those people may be Marcina someday. If not, posts like yours may be one contribution towards her deciding not to go that route. I just said it how it is.I'm vegan for the animals and nothing else.It shatters me when i see a cow, pig or any other animal get their throats cut and to hear the blood curdling screams it chokes out.You think i give a damn about people who are to blame for that? And i don't believe for a second that if we agree and be real nice to marcina that maybe she'll join our 'vegan poser group' or whatever she thinks this is.She said she is not big on animal rights.This jury has heard enough(jury being I).I don't care how mean or rude vegans come across as, i'll remain vegan forever, loved or hated. I won't let them walk all over veganism and not say something back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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