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Seattle Cop Punches Woman


VelvetVoices
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The incident began when an police officer spotted a teen jaywalking. As he approached the 18-year-old male, the officer witnessed four females do the same thing at the same spot on the road, about 15 feet from a pedestrian crosswalk.

 

"The officer instructed the females to step over to his vehicle," officials said. "They were verbally antagonistic." When one of them, a 19-year-old, began to walk away, the officer approached her and escorted her back.

 

"The female subject began to tense up her arm and pull away from the officer while yelling at him," police said. The two argued, and the officer attempted to cuff her. That is when, according to officials, another teen interceded. "The second female subject placed her hands on the officer's arm, causing the officer to believe she was attempting to physically affect the first subject's escape," police said.

 

A crowd had gathered around the officer by that time, and one witness captured much of the altercation on video. The 17-year-old is seen on video pushing the officer, who then responds by punching her in the face. The crowd reacted with shock, and a voice is heard saying, "Are you serious?!" Someone pulled the 17-year-old away, and the police officer proceeded to try to handcuff the 19-year-old. "Do not struggle," the cop orders the woman during the video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGAI4r3X6lk

 

Stupid teens, resisting arrest & assault of an office/interfering in a arrest all cause it they were jaywalking. Guess it was too hard to get a warning and get on with their day.

 

Opinions on the situation? Police brutality? Excessive force?

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All of that bullshit over jaywalking.

 

I hate to say it, but those two women were antagonizing the cop. They were yelling at him and physically struggling with him. I didn't like the cop punching her in the face. I think a case can be made for excessive force, but also for resisting arrest.

 

FWIW, I heard a police organization is trying to make it illegal to take videos of the police doing their job.

 

Looking at that video, I can understand why.

 

Ironic, as Americans have cameras on us almost all of the time now. The weak rationalization given to people complaining about that can also be used for the cops:

 

"If you aren't doing anything wrong, then you don't have anything to worry about".

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Since when does jaywalking lead to an arrest anyhow? I don't even understand why it's illegal. Stupid in inconsiderate if there are cars coming, but if there aren't, who does it harm?

 

To me, force like that should be used if the cop feels like he is in danger of being hurt. If he felt he was going to be hurt, he's way too paranoid to be a cop.

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Since when does jaywalking lead to an arrest anyhow? I don't even understand why it's illegal. Stupid in inconsiderate if there are cars coming, but if there aren't, who does it harm?

 

To me, force like that should be used if the cop feels like he is in danger of being hurt. If he felt he was going to be hurt, he's way too paranoid to be a cop.

 

I'm not endorsing the cop punching the woman, but you should watch the video. It begins with the woman yelling at the cop, grappling with him and trying to get away.

 

My guess would be that it *started* about jaywalking, the woman and her friend escalated it and the cop overreacted.

Edited by beforewisdom
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Appalling behaviour by that copper. He's a disgrace to his uniform and should have been arrested by the crowd for assualting the woman.

 

We can't see how it all began but, judging by the copper's actions, it's quite possible that he was very aggressive towards the women from the start. And for a non-crime. If the copper was aggressive and started manhandling them, they had every right to resist. It's a stupid law. It's something dreamt up by the kind of mind that wants to control everything. If the women were crossing responsibly and weren't causing cars to swerve and brake, they should have been left alone. If they weren't causing any danger they should have resisted arrest. Passively, if the copper was polite. Aggressively, if he was aggressive. I'd like to see mass jaywalkings - safely done. People need to assert their right to live uncontrolled by petty rules.

 

The only real crimes are those that have victims. There are no victims when someone crosses the road. It's true that careless crossing could cause an accident but many things we do could cause accidents. In the UK, we can cross the road wherever we want to regardless of what the traffic signals are telling us to do. I doubt if there are more accidents here.

 

I hate the growing tendency to legislate for everything and the attempts to control every behaviour. There's a stupid 'anti-terrorist' law here that makes it an offence to read out the names of the war dead at London's main monument to the war dead, without prior police persmission. People have been arrested for doing so.

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Well said Martin.

 

Did you know Jaywalking is safer than crossing at an intersection? More people are hit by cars turning at intersections than in between intersections. I have almost been hit many times by drivers who were more focused on opposing traffic than pedestrians.

 

The cop is a bully. On par for the profession though. The girl trying to break it up was the one punched. Definitely police brutality.

 

The cop sets the tone. If he was aggressive to start, he instigated the situation. Cops have no respect for people today. When I have been approached by police at demonstrations and they say something like "hey you!", I demand that they call me sir and remind them that they are civil servants here to serve me. That really irks them.

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I'm not familiar with US roads but I can believe what you say. I know that a pedestrian needs to have their wits about them when crossing roads. I've seen dozens of cars go through red lights or ignore zebra crossings and pelican crossings - whilst people were crossing or trying to cross. If I want to cross the road, I cross. I don't look for the 'correct' place to do it and I don't rely on lights and beepers to tell me to cross. I cross when and where it's safe to do so.

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Even if your in the right, does not give you the right to assault an officer & interfering in a arrest. We don't see what takes place to spark it all but the women where clearly out of control, if they were more lady like they would of been on there way instead of sitting in the back of a police car.

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I agree with you, VelvetVoices, that no one has the right to assault anyone - who is not assaulting or grabbing them or someone else. I don't believe in initiating violence - and then only using appropriate force - but I wouldn't accord any official more respect than anyone else. If a copper hit me I would hit him back. If he took hold of me, I would take hold of him. The trouble is that many police people forget, as Ducati said, that they are public servants. They can only do their job with the co-operation and assent of the people they serve. They must be better behaved than the people they confront. If they behave like thugs, we should jump on them and arrest them. They must realise that they are nothing special and that they have to be respectful - as all servants should be. If they are not temperamentally suited to the job, they should get another one. Coppers like that one bring the profession and the laws they enforce into disrepute.

 

I don't advocate violence towards the police if they don't offer violence. Most of them are probably fairly decent people but some are too keen to enforce every petty-fogging rule in the book. That will lead to less respect for them.

 

Yes, Vegan_Bohemian, the man is a thug.

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If a copper hit me I would hit him back. If he took hold of me, I would take hold of him.
An eye for an eye? I wasn't brought up like that and out where I live that's just asking for trouble with severe consequences. It's not right to hit a woman but those teens where out of control and will probably never learned a thing from this experience except it's perfectly fine to push/grab a police officer and resist arrest.
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This thread must be populated with non-drivers living in the suburbs.

 

Anyone who drives a lot in an urban area would agree that jaywalking is a serious problem. When people cross a street whenever and wherever they want it makes it hard for motorists to avoid hitting them. It isn't just the idiot who walks into the street that is at risk, but any motorists who might slam on their breaks or swerve to avoid hitting the jaywalker. Then there are the cars behind the person slamming on their breaks.

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If a copper hit me I would hit him back. If he took hold of me, I would take hold of him.
An eye for an eye? I wasn't brought up like that and out where I live that's just asking for trouble with severe consequences. It's not right to hit a woman but those teens where out of control and will probably never learned a thing from this experience except it's perfectly fine to push/grab a police officer and resist arrest.

 

VelvetVoices,

 

It is difficult to say how those teens initially reacted, because the video starts in the middle of the episode. We have no idea how the cop addressed them. He might have been rude, disrespectful, or threatening from the beginning. And considering his violent actions, it is very possible to believe that he was the aggressor. You also have to consider that being black in the city likely means being raised with a fear of cops whether justified or not. I have worked with many cops in the past. I used to work in EMS and was a Volunteer FF. I couldn't believe some of the things cops would say. They made me fear them and lose all respect for them. Once in a while, I meet a cop who is dedicated to protecting the people. They are young and idealistic, but eventually they turn sour, or they quit before they turn sour.

 

The police themselves have lost the respect they attempt to demand. They uphold laws purely for the sake of profit, not protection. When Jaywalking is safer then crossing at an intersection, then the only reason to enforce that law is to create revenue. This makes police no different than mafia enforcers. They are thugs to extort money out of people.

 

Let face it, the police would serve the public better by enforcing the driving laws which are designed to protect pedestrians and bike riders. If drivers obeyed the laws at intersections, then people wouldn't feel the need to jaywalk to feel safe.

 

In NYC, statistic show that almost twice the number of pedestrians were injured when crossing with a signal. My guess is that people cross blindly when they are told it is OK. But the ones who Jaywalk probably look out more because they are not relaying on the signal.

30.9% Crossing with signal

16.2% Crossing against signal

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I appreciate your stance, VelvetVoices, but I won't let someone attack me without defending myself. I don't care what authority they think they have. We have a moral right to resist unjust and stupid laws and anyone who tries to impose them on us. The USA was founded by criminals who broke the law. But they had morality on their side. I think.

 

If people walk across the road and cause an accident they are responsible for that accident and should be arrested. But I don't believe in arresting pedestrians who might, in some circumstance, possibly have the potential to cause an accident. In built up areas, drivers should drive slowly as you can never tell when a dog, cat or child will run out in front of you.

 

Ducati, you sound like someone who could be in Lawful Rebellion. There's a lot of talk on LR sites about how the police used to be peace officers but are now policy officers whose job seems to be collecting revenue.

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Martin;

 

How often do you drive through the city? There are a lot of my areas in my area where people cross on all sections of the street. Between that, the congestion and the nature of the road even when I am obeying every traffic law it is hard to navigate those situations. I've had people step out in front of my car only a few yards ahead of me. I was going the speed limit of about 30 something mph and even then it was close.

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I haven't driven for 3 years but I never encountered anything like you describe except on a Friday night when I passed a night club on my way home from work. Drunks would be spilling out into the street. I would pass them at about walking pace - often exchanging jocular comments.

 

Perhaps the culture here is different because everyone everywhere takes care when they cross the road. We had the Green Cross Code Man (who later became Darth Vader) to thank for that. And perhaps also the evil Tufty Club. Some people think the Tufty Club was a benign organisation but we members of the Ovaltinies know the shocking truth about them.

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I haven't driven for 3 years but I never encountered anything like you describe except on a Friday night when I passed a night club on my way home from work. Drunks would be spilling out into the street. I would pass them at about walking pace - often exchanging jocular comments.

 

Perhaps the culture here is different because everyone everywhere takes care when they cross the road. We had the Green Cross Code Man (who later became Darth Vader) to thank for that. And perhaps also the evil Tufty Club. Some people think the Tufty Club was a benign organisation but we members of the Ovaltinies know the shocking truth about them.

irrelevant

 

he was very aggressive and i think that if i was there i would have jumped in and landed the cop one. there is just no reason for him doing that just because of jaywalking.

yeah right, don't try to be a hero.

 

It is difficult to say how those teens initially reacted, because the video starts in the middle of the episode. We have no idea how the cop addressed them. He might have been rude, disrespectful, or threatening from the beginning.

if the two girls relaxed and respected the officer they would have been let off easily.

 

And considering his violent actions, it is very possible to believe that he was the aggressor.

the girls were more aggressive and many dB louder than the officer.

 

You also have to consider that being black in the city likely means being raised with a fear of cops whether justified or not.

Some people rear children to hate the police.

 

They uphold laws purely for the sake of profit, not protection. When Jaywalking is safer then crossing at an intersection, then the only reason to enforce that law is to create revenue.

You don't know any better than anyone else what the situation was. "Middle of the episode"

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If it is such a bad neighborhood (which I am not doubting), why is this cop focused on jaywalking instead of ....i dunno extreme drug related crimes? And also, if it such an area prone to aggression towards cops, why is he alone? I was raised by cops, sergeants, and sheriffs--this doesn't make sense. UNLESS, it is not really that threatening, which it doesn't seem to be, because the worst that the entire group of people did(who could have easily taken that cop if they wanted to) was whip out their cameras.

 

I'm not saying that these girls didnt over-react, but they were hardly a threat. I treat cops with the utmost respect even when i'd like to do just the opposite, but i also know cops unbelievably well, and i know that what they say pretty much goes, so you might as well do what they say. this is sad but true. He should NOT have punched her-period. If he doesn't know how to handle a situation that is that simple without resorting to punching someone in the face, maybe he should rethink his career?

 

Whatever, the whole thing seems completely blown out of proportion and kind of ridiculous.

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Surely there is other training that you receive for situations like this, besides "punch them in the face". I don't know much about these things, but my initial reaction is that it was not at all necessary to punch her, the whole situation was out of hand from the start and a different approach should have been taken I guess to stop it getting to that point.

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That post of mine was in answer to Beforewisdom's question. There's nothing irrelevant about the Tufty Club.

 

The girls might have got away with the heinous crime of crossing the road if they had been meek and quiet but we can't be sure about that. I think most adults would object to being told that they can't use their own judgement to cross a road.

 

They were shouting a bit but neither of them punched anyone, not even after the copper punched one of them. The girl in pink was probably concerned that her friend was being unjustly arrested and harshly treated. She only pushed the copper. He immediately punched her. The copper should have remained calm instead of making the situation worse. He should not have grabbed anyone unless they first grabbed him. We don't know who did what first, though. But he was so aggressive that I believe he started it.

 

I still contend that it is a daft law, that the copper was an aggressive thug and that he was guilty of assault.

 

I think it's understandable that they were annoyed at being arrested for crossing the road. I don't think of Americans meekly doing everything they are told to do. If people do everything the Establishment tells them to do, they will be told to do more things.

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If it is such a bad neighborhood (which I am not doubting), why is this cop focused on jaywalking instead of ....i dunno extreme drug related crimes? And also, if it such an area prone to aggression towards cops, why is he alone? I was raised by cops, sergeants, and sheriffs--this doesn't make sense. UNLESS, it is not really that threatening, which it doesn't seem to be, because the worst that the entire group of people did(who could have easily taken that cop if they wanted to) was whip out their cameras.

 

Exactly. I'm basing my opinion on the cops I know, and how they know they should act. Even if you're acting to protecting yourself and have no concern for the law, punching a girl in the face if you are not seriously threatened is a BAD idea, surrounded by people that can make your situation worse if you are the only cop there. It was just a stupid thing to do on his part.

 

Being a cop is a tough gig, but if you can't handle high-pressure situations without losing your cool, you should find another job.

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Like it or not, racial tension exists in our world, it sometimes go in both directions and it often isn't fair. I've had people try to antagonize me into physical confrontations and all I was doing was walking through a store.

 

The only evidence people have in this thread is the youtube clip. That clip opens with a woman physically struggling with the cop and antagonizing him.

 

There was a mention that the cop "inappropriately touched her", but how was not described and it was not in the video......it was not in the evidence.

 

Given the evidence, my intuition is that the girls' racism and hatred of the police ballooned a reprimand into something more which led to the cop using excessive force in subduing the woman who was attacking him.

 

I take it as a given that most people know that once you touch a cop the game is over.

 

The video shows got women struggling with him.

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