Vitamin B12, Different forms, different results.

[Epi-Gen]

Hello everyone. I did a bunch of searches on here to find out what people's habits are concerning Vitamin B12. Well anyone on here I am sure knows it is important to a vegan diet since there are not realistic animal sources. We are just simply blessed with the fact that we can store a lot of it, and sometimes it is found in dirt that you end up eating...

 

Here is what you should know. The supplementation and differences in lab results has a lot to do with the synthetic form that is used in probably 100% of fortification and 99% of supplements.

 

Cyanocobalamin is the common and almost only used form of synthetic (animal free) vitamin B12. The prefix to the word cobalamin - vitamin B12 - happens to be cyanide. The amount of cyanide is small but no amount is healthy. Also if you are taking high doses of vitamin B12 then you are increases the cyanide. Funny enough the cyanide is not the bigger worry! Fact is that cyanocobalamin does not occur in nature anywhere and is not very bio-available to your system. It does get broken down in your system to usable forms but perhaps not nearly as much of it as you need, if much at all. It becomes methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin and leaves cyanide behind (in you).

 

Methylcobalamin is a form that is seen naturally in the world. It appears that it is absorbed and retained in higher amounts in your tissue. In particular it is used by the brain, nervous system, and liver.

 

If you are 100% Vegan with nothing like eggs in your diet, I highly suggest you make your next purchase be Methyl B12 for your health.

 

I personally enjoy the benefits from it greatly. It is a noticeable difference for me. It does cost more but overall the price paid for the amount I need, and how long it lasts, I can do.

[Epi-Gen]

Oh? I thought people would find this information very useful.

[vegimator]

The studies I've read show that there's no difference between them in raising b-12 levels. Methylcobalamin is just a lot more expensive. Do you have links to studies showing otherwise?

[Epi-Gen]

Actually this is where I found it,

 

http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/blogs/index.php/2004/02/07/cyanocobalamin-versus-methylcobalamin?blog=27

 

I do not need a study to tell me that I have twice as much nerve reception in my legs. I have taken the Cyanocobalamin on and off for a long time with little to no difference. The Methylcobalamin when I first took it changed receptivity first right away, and then more evenly across my muscles overnight. (But I do search PubMed for different things, one thing that did pop up unfortunately was based off of Medline research so it was not it's own study, but did mention benefits to Methylcobalamin)

 

It is worth a try as opposed to the people popping 10mg a few times day which is not that cheap either.

[beforewisdom]

The typical non-cyanocobalamin forms of vitamin B12 in supplemental forms are methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin (also known as 5'-deoxyadenosylcobalamin, dibencozide, coenzyme B12, cobamamide, and cobinamide). Calling adenosylcobalamin "co-enzyme B12" is somewhat misleading because methylcobalamin is also a co-enzyme form of B12. Hydroxocobalamin is the form typically used in B12 injections.

 

Some researchers question whether these non-cyanocobalamin supplements are stable in their oral form. For this reason, much larger amounts are typically used with hope that at least some are absorbed intact. One study suggests that once absorbed, methylcobalamin may be retained in the body better than cyanocobalamin.

 

From

http://veganhealth.org/b12/noncyanob12

[Ducati]

From my research, I have read that the body will convert Cyanocobalamin to Methylcobalamin. Also, small amounts of cyanide are not harmful and it occurs in nature. Almonds, apple seeds, algaes, and other plants contain small amount of cyanide.

[Epi-Gen]

The typical non-cyanocobalamin forms of vitamin B12 in supplemental forms are methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin (also known as 5'-deoxyadenosylcobalamin, dibencozide, coenzyme B12, cobamamide, and cobinamide). Calling adenosylcobalamin "co-enzyme B12" is somewhat misleading because methylcobalamin is also a co-enzyme form of B12. Hydroxocobalamin is the form typically used in B12 injections.

 

Some researchers question whether these non-cyanocobalamin supplements are stable in their oral form. For this reason, much larger amounts are typically used with hope that at least some are absorbed intact. One study suggests that once absorbed, methylcobalamin may be retained in the body better than cyanocobalamin.

 

From

http://veganhealth.org/b12/noncyanob12

 

Awesome. That really has nothing but good things to say about it expect that it is hard to have it be as stable so larger amounts are needed.

 

I do not think I need any extra Cyanide.

 

Also the greater point why not try it if you feel you could benefit from it? It is not going to hurt you. After all science explains what it can not all.

[Epi-Gen]

According to here only 1% is usually absorbed, so it would seem that doing what you can to enhance it would be smart! They used the same study as above, but have more information on what is happening.

 

http://health101.org/art_methylcobalamin.htm

[vegimator]

According to here only 1% is usually absorbed, so it would seem that doing what you can to enhance it would be smart! They used the same study as above, but have more information on what is happening.

 

http://health101.org/art_methylcobalamin.htm

 

 

This really doesn't impress me -

 

Methylcobalamin in a Small Sample of Vegans

 

Note: µg = microgram, mg=milligram (1,000 micrograms)

 

Donaldson (2000, USA) studied 3 vegans with elevated urinay MMA levels who were treated with 1/2 to 1 sublingual methylcobalamin tablet (from Enzymatic Therapy, Green Bay, WI), 2 times/day for 3 weeks. Correspondence with the author (March 21, 2002) verified that these tablets contain 1,000 micrograms (1 milligram) methylcobalamin each.

 

Two of the subjects' urinary Methyl Malonic Acid (uMMA) normalized while the remaining subject's stayed slightly elevated at 4.1 µg/mg creatinine (normal is < 4.0 µg/mg creatinine). Thus, at a rate of 1-2 micrograms/day, methylcobalamin appears to be absorbed at a high enough rate to improve B12 status in some vegans. Additionally, this indicates that the methylcobalamin was able to improve the MMA pathway which requires adenosylcobalamin (in other words, methylcobalamin was apparently converted into adenosylcobalamin in these people).

 

So based on this study of three (3) vegans, it's as effective as cyanocobalamin (which has been shown to be effective repeatedly) two out of three times.

 

Here's some info about the toxicity of the cyanide levels -

 

"7.5.1 Safety

In 1988, Herbert cautioned that large amounts of B12 may eventually be found to be harmful.47 In contrast, Hathcock &

Troendle40 (1991) point out that there appears to be little or no question that B12 intakes of 500-1000 µg/day are safe. The

cobalt and the cyanide contribution of 1000 µg/day of cyanocobalamin are considered toxicologically insignificant. The

Institute of Medicine has not set an Upper Tolerable Limit for a daily vitamin B12 intake. People with cyanide metabolism

defects, chronic kidney failure, and probably smokers should take a different form of B12"

 

http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:pn-afROvWb8J:scholar.google.com

Edited August 2, 2010 by vegimator

[Ducati]

Well, the supplement I take has about 10,000% RDA of B12 in one drop. So, I guess I absorb about 100% of my RDA then, eh?

[Epi-Gen]

Vegimator what can I say? If you feel you have no B12 issues then I am happy for you. However for anyone else that does not feel they are in the same position maybe trying to argue that something that has technically less harmful to health - even if the harmful component is considered at an innate dosage - is not a battle worth pursuing in that 'what do you get out of it?'

 

For me Methyl B12 is doing a lot. You want to know something? I honestly felt like I did not have long to live and had been depressed. Methyl B12 has been changing that with no other additions to my diet which is not deficient in any calculatable aspect. For others I have read and seen posts about several B12 early deficiency symptoms. There are several threads on taking a lot of B12. You have presented your evidence and do not see the optimistic side for something that does not have a harmful potential aside from if you choked on too many tablets.

 

I posted this in hopes that others that feel they are not meeting some concern they have. There certainly is a fair amount of - while anecdotal - passages about ineffectiveness of B12 supplementation that I have browsed on and may not be a double blind study. Besides if no one here considered any anecdotal information to be useful well then this forum would not even be around!

[vegimator]

That's great to hear and maybe it is worth trying if you have reason to believe you have issues converting cyano b-12. I just don't want people to think they need to toss their cheap supplements for some much pricier ones if they're doing fine since there's little scientific backing to suggest that you should be taking methyl.

[Epi-Gen]

I am not a proponent of wasting resources, so use what you got, sure, but you could always not buy a large amount and try something new briefly. Anyways best of luck to everyone.