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My little experiment...


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Glad to hear you're going to stick with something close to a vegan diet even though you don't care about the ethics. I would just say there's no need to cook in butter for saturated fats. You can use coconut (which also has those medium chain fatty acids) or palm oil.

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Lift heavy and eat WAY MORE than you do now! You're skinny as hell, what was the point of this "experiment"?

 

Not trying to be mean or anything.

 

And yeah, no need for butter - you can get SFA and MUFA from palm oil, coconut oil, olive oil, macadamia oil, etc.

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You're skinny as hell

This guy doesn't look skinny to me. He has very healthy physique. He could be more muscular, if that is his desire, but his overall appearance is very good.

My opinion for you VEGETA is that you have good predispositions for developing a nice athletic body. Use it, lift weights regularly and eat clean and you will see nice results very soon.

 

And just one remark: I think you obsess to much about your food styles. You don't have to experiment that much. Eating healthy is very easy. You just have to follow the rule: no animal products, lots of fruits, veggies, whole grains and beans. A little nuts and seeds. No canned food, no processed food, not to much (salt if any). Easy as that. Stop contemplating, start working out!

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Feeling superb and energy-rich are not exclusive to non-veganism. In addition, 3% animal products (which is what you're saying would be your maximum anyway) would make barely any difference to how you feel energy-wise, or anything else, so I don't know why you wouldn't just drop all of it, if your health is what concerns you. Though I imagine that it isn't really your health that is of concern regarding this 3% animal products, since it's clear that 3% of your diet is insignificant, and most likely would just be for things you feel like eating, rather than things which have any kind of purpose (as I believe that anything which does have a health-related purpose in your diet could be replaced with a vegan alternative).

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@Richard The 3% would only be for family gatherings, if someone make a salad with little yogurt or mayonnaise (self made with eggs) or chili concarne (let's say with little cream for consistency or little meat) I am not going to be saying "I can't eat that because there are animal products" this would be just ridiculous you know what I mean? Things like that would be the 3 per cent.

I realize too that there are no difference in the energy and feeling superb and so on if I add the 3% or drop it either.

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My family used to be afraid to make food for me because of how strict I was.. So I can see Vegeta's point. I'm not a vegan anymore, but even as a vegan, I never called myself one because people would react negatively.. Not only that but I felt like a hypocrite calling myself "vegan" when I would knowingly use items containing animal products such as riding my motorcycle with a leather seat ya know? Or electricity which kills thousands of animals a year.

 

So, if I'm at a family BBQ, and I eat my veggie burger on a bun containing a little whey powder, I'm not going to flip out.

 

I will say one thing about the company I work for though. Not only did they bring in vegan burger patties for me at the company BBQ, but they also brought in a second grill to cook it on that was seperate from the beef burgers. I was so impressed and honoured they went through all that trouble for me. It was so sweet I almost cried! Lol!

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My family used to be afraid to make food for me because of how strict I was.. So I can see Vegeta's point. I'm not a vegan anymore, but even as a vegan, I never called myself one because people would react negatively.. Not only that but I felt like a hypocrite calling myself "vegan" when I would knowingly use items containing animal products such as riding my motorcycle with a leather seat ya know? Or electricity which kills thousands of animals a year.

 

So, if I'm at a family BBQ, and I eat my veggie burger on a bun containing a little whey powder, I'm not going to flip out.

 

I will say one thing about the company I work for though. Not only did they bring in vegan burger patties for me at the company BBQ, but they also brought in a second grill to cook it on that was seperate from the beef burgers. I was so impressed and honoured they went through all that trouble for me. It was so sweet I almost cried! Lol!

 

Sometimes I also eat stuff with trace amounts of whey, eggs or other animal products in it - does that make me a vegetarian? I just don't see any point in obsessing over such miniscule things. Those ingredients are simply by-products of animal agriculture which would go away together with the industry. As I see it, trying to avoiding such ingredients 100% of the time doesn't do anything to change the situation, so I don't bother. Besides, as I've mentioned above, it is, after all, impossible. We would even have to give up books as they're usually bound with animal-derived glue. You can't make perfect decisions in an imperfect world.

 

To me, veganism isn't about purity or following rigid rules, but, rather, about minimizing animal abuse. And there's more to it than just doing this and not doing that.

 

Riding on a leather seat is pretty lame, though

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My family used to be afraid to make food for me because of how strict I was.. So I can see Vegeta's point. I'm not a vegan anymore, but even as a vegan, I never called myself one because people would react negatively.. Not only that but I felt like a hypocrite calling myself "vegan" when I would knowingly use items containing animal products such as riding my motorcycle with a leather seat ya know? Or electricity which kills thousands of animals a year.

 

So, if I'm at a family BBQ, and I eat my veggie burger on a bun containing a little whey powder, I'm not going to flip out.

 

I will say one thing about the company I work for though. Not only did they bring in vegan burger patties for me at the company BBQ, but they also brought in a second grill to cook it on that was seperate from the beef burgers. I was so impressed and honoured they went through all that trouble for me. It was so sweet I almost cried! Lol!

 

Sometimes I also eat stuff with trace amounts of whey, eggs or other animal products in it - does that make me a vegetarian? I just don't see any point in obsessing over such miniscule things. Those ingredients are simply by-products of animal agriculture which would go away together with the industry. As I see it, trying to avoiding such ingredients 100% of the time doesn't do anything to change the situation, so I don't bother. Besides, as I've mentioned above, it is, after all, impossible. We would even have to give up books as they're usually bound with animal-derived glue. You can't make perfect decisions in an imperfect world.

 

To me, veganism isn't about purity or following rigid rules, but, rather, about minimizing animal abuse. And there's more to it than just doing this and not doing that.

 

Riding on a leather seat is pretty lame, though

Refusing animal products all together is the way to get companies to only make vegan options.

 

And i would not eat a product of torture.

 

Take more pride in yourselves and you beliefs.

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Refusing animal products all together is the way to get companies to only make vegan options.

 

As long as there is demand for animal products in general, there will be more than adequate supply. Besides, I do not believe that any kind of meaningful, long-term change could come about through the market.

 

And i would not eat a product of torture.

 

Oh, you will. Harvesting grains and other plant foods is responsible for a considerable amount of animal deaths each year.

 

And you will also:

 

- read a product of torture;

- use transportation other than your own two feet, thus contributing to climate change, which, in turn, harms animals;

 

etc., etc. It's not as clear-cut as we'd like to believe.

 

We can not exist on this planet without inflicting at least a little bit of misery and death on animals.

 

Take more pride in yourselves and you beliefs.

 

I do not "have" beliefs in that I don't cherish them as my property - as something that I have complete control over for whole eternity. I like to think of any ideas I currently sympathise with as provisional rather than final. So, in the case of veganism, as I've already mentioned in my previous post, "[it] isn't about purity or following rigid rules, but, rather, about minimizing animal abuse. And there's more to it than just doing this and not doing that."

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its madness to eat animal products all together.

 

but people act is if its taking it too far to refuse them.

 

weak convictions.no honor.

 

and jc, i am raging at what you wrote but will not flame you because its pointless because you've made up your mind and have become 1 of the people i didn't think existed.

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Each person has a different motivation and different levels of what they are prepared to do, or go without, regarding veganism. I do not think it is worth arguing over such things, because it is a fundamental difference in what is ethical and / or worthwhile / practical. Those core things are what separate us, and I don't see a way to overcome that, apart from individuals coming to a different conclusion over time after giving it deep thought. It's not the sort of thing that gets sorted out on a forum, no matter how long the debate might become.

 

Personally, I am happy to tell people I won't eat their food if I consider it not to be vegan. I will eat food that has been made in a place that handles dairy products and so on, though I won't eat something if it has non-vegan ingredients. That's my cut off point, and I understand other people's view point on the subject. I don't think it is wise to be negative towards people for doing what they think is right, especially if their actions have no negative impact as a result, just because you consider it a waste of time / effort / unnecessary, others feel differently

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I agree, Richard!

 

Cold, do you have a filter installed in your brain which transforms all your thoughts into Earth Crisis-style tough-guy-talk? It is not cool, it's hilarious. No offence, just sayin'

 

Also, I think it's about time we stopped trashing this thread and discuss vegan righteousness via PM's or e-mail.

 

Peace!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hey 2097!

 

I agree most of your comment and want to thank you for taking time!

 

Yes I was a f**kin' diet hopper but how I said I am on the right track now with high carbs and low pro/fat, like you said my diet should be.

 

Another point is, I strongly believe that people are very different, and my or your diet doesn't work for everyone, see Berkhan and Co. (or his tons of clients! That should be prove enough.).

 

I believe in the theory of metabolic typing. Of protein types, carb types and mixed types.

 

I did a test of the old school Dr. Kelly, and the result is phenomenal! I am a type 4, meaning not a strict vegetarian type (few eggs, dairy and fish per week) and since I started this I have energy I've never experienced before. My mood what is usually bad are happy and elevated most of the time. I am more satisfied with my meals and do not tend to overeat anymore like I did so many times... okay enough talk, I found what I searched for

 

See ya and recommending you do it too. Didn't you asked yourself why a few (or much) vegans/vegetarians feeling like crap on their diet? Because they are protein or mixed types. The same for meat eaters that should be veg eaters

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Vegeta if someday you wanna try again high-protein low carb diet, try drinking just hemp protein powder with water or make some shakes with one fruit and soy milk. Just protein drinks and eating raw vegetables will be high protein low-carb without the need to eat meat, eggs, etc. If you want it high-fat also you can put olive oil on the raw vegetables or add coconut oil in the smoothies. Coconut oil is kind of like butter, because solid in the fridge but liquid when heated, high in saturated fats. Delicious for desserts or smoothies because it tastes coconut.

 

But it is much better to eat high-card diet, much more energy.

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I don't eat fish, dairy eggs 'cause of the complete protein dilemma, I just eat it when I feel that I have to eat it, when I feel my body needs it.

It's not much, but it's there, this would make me maybe a 88% per cent vegan if you want.

 

I could say you too are labeling yourself with vegan The labeling is just a help.

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I'm not a Vegan; I'm eating how humans are meant to eat. Chickens/turkeys are for dogs to eat because if you put a chicken with a dog; the only thing the dog will want to do is kill and eat it. Cows/pigs are for panthers/lions to eat. Then we wonder why tigers are going extinct...humans are eating their food and hunting them for their fur.

 

When you feel your body needs it....your body is addicted to it. Your mind is KING...your body is the KINGDOM. Thats why when someone has a sugar craving; its the organs that are addicted to it and send signals to the brain, begging for sugar.

 

You should watch "what the bleep do we know". Amazing movie that explains how thoughts control how your body functions.

 

Exactly !

This reminds me of Vipassana meditation, I learned to feel those subtle body sensations of cravings. The mind is often a slave of the exterior environment because of how the body history of the past interprets each thing that we see, ear, taste, linked with how we dealed with those things thoughout our life, we are conditioned, brainwashed to always react the same way to those stimuli. With a calm and clear mind one can remain equanimous instead of reacting to cravings and aversions.

 

It's like those guys on the Primal Diet that I talked to, many say they tried a vegan diet but they say they felt weak (because not enough calories usually) and their "body was screaming for beef and cream" and that they had to listen to their body needs. Yeah right ! How could the body possibly needs something that does not exist in nature, something such as cream and butter ? These things weren't even part of the Primal Diet, which was perhaps much higher than we think in seeds, nuts, fruits, root vegetables and sprouts.

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I find it funny that on some pro-meat anti-vegan website by a stupid doctor, he was saying humans are not pigeons therefore our natural diet is not grains. As if we were tigers and lions... Then he compared the picture of a gorilla next to a man, saying there were many differencies... Not really, no. Of course he didn't compared the anatomy of lion with human.

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@mjzraz I don't think so.

 

Look at Mingers post on the china study. Of course the site you posted vegsource will always show article that are against animal products. Same for Mingers critique on there.

And Mercola is not the inventor of metabolic typing, Dr. Kelley does this years before (in the 70s) then came walcott, mercola and so on.

And Campell didn't do the work he just collected results of studies and left much results in the background. Read Minger.

She is the neutral one, read her story, she too tried all "diets".

 

And by the way, why it have to be based on real science if it works?? You wrote that like you would believe in the words what your doctor would say. I don't believe in mainstream science especially what I do is believing in what I feel on certain foods and the experience I make with myself and of the experience of others.

 

For one is a meat diet the right thing and for others the green "meat" diet (and for others a mixed one). Saw so many prooves!

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I believe in the theory of metabolic typing. Of protein types, carb types and mixed types.

For one is a meat diet the right thing and for others the green "meat" diet (and for others a mixed one). Saw so many prooves!

 

Why would human be the only species that need a different diet for each individual ? Other animals don't try low-fat or high protein or low-carb diets, they just stick to their natural diet. All lions eat the same diet, all elephants eat the same, et cetera. There is only one optimal diet for each species. Because we have the same organs, same anantomy. Just the size that differs from an individual to another, and other small differencies, but we all function the same. If someone is more active or has a larger frame: need more calories, not really a bigger ratio of carbs or proteins or fat.

 

I say this but I do agree to some degree that some changes may exist in the diet to adapt for each person... but not huge extreme changes like zero carbs for one person and almost only carbs for another person. For example: a very yin person needs more yang food. Or a Vata person, who's light frame and high in the elements of Air and Ether, needs to eat heavier meals, to be more grounded. Opposites heal. An heavy kapha will eat light meals. Pittas with Fire need raw rood especially during pitta Summer season. But overall, we all need to tend towards a more Sattvic lifestyle and satvic nutrition.

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