Vitamin B-12: Jack Norris Debunks Douglas Graham's Opinion

[beforewisdom]

Comments on Doug Graham’s B12 Statements

http://jacknorrisrd.com/?p=1391&cpage=1#comment-5013

 

For the record I take a daily vitamin b-12 sublingual lozenge. I buy a supply for an entire year at a time. It costs me slightly less than $25 and that price includes shipping.

 

It is kind of amazing when you think about it. So many people arguing so hard against doing something that can prevent a stroke, a heart attack or neurological damage. Something that costs less than 50 cents a week.

 

FWIW, Jack Norris is a registered dietitian (R.D.) and cofounder of Vegan Outreach has written one of the best articles on why someone would want to supplement vitamin b-12 and how to do it. You can read it for free at the URL below. If you care about staying vegan I recommend you read everything he has to write at all 3 links at the URL below:

 

http://veganhealth.org/articles/vitaminb12

[Im Your Man]

You did it again We know we can find those links on your blog also. The link is in your signature, so you don't have to post it again.

 

How do you explain durianrider got TOO MUCH B12 even if he doesn't supplement and all he eats is fruits and veggies ? He did a blood test, his results are way higher than the recommandations. Besides, I've read that Vitamin C overdose can cause B12 deficiency, but he eats tons of exotic fruits and greens full of vitamin C.

 

Also Lean & Green, not taking any b12 supplement and taking tons of chlorella powder (supposed to contain a form of B12 that blocks real B12...) had good results for b12 when he did a blood test.

 

 

[Octopussoir]

oh no.... here we go yet again

[Fallen_Horse]

oh no.... here we go yet again

http://imgur.com/0ioPN.jpg

[beforewisdom]

You did it again We know we can find those links on your blog also. The link is in your signature, so you don't have to post it again.

 

This is a new and distinct article. In the one I posted at the top of this thread Norris is discussing Douglas Grahms's views. In the separate article before that Norris discussed an article by a journalist writing on vitamin b-12.

 

I don't mean to be insulting, but you have a habit of commenting on articles you haven't read. This time is just one more iteration.

[Im Your Man]

 

I don't mean to be insulting, but you have a habit of commenting on articles you haven't read. This time is just one more iteration.

You have a habit of ignoring questions. See my previous post.

I've read the article and its not good at all.

I notice that Jack has many questions and little answers.

 

Jack says

"People take salt supplements?"

No shit. Doctors say "eat salt - but not too much, its not good for your health". People add salt to everything, to foods that naturally contain potassium and sodium, and even to food already containing too much added salt like premade soups, frozen tv dinners, etc. I've seen people in restaurants putting salt and pepper before they even started to eat and couldn't know if it was already salty enough. And we always hear: take salt after doing exercises and sweating because you lost all your salt and you need to get more now. But they still have enough salt, its just their body expels the excedent. My sweat is not salty.

 

Jack wrote

"He says he has experienced people whose B12 levels return to normal three to four week after a fast (it’s not clear if the fast is three to four weeks, or some other length)."

Or maybe some people fasted 3 weeks and others fasted 4 weeks.

Besides, fasting has shown good results for nearly all health issues, not only for b12 deficiency, and not only witnessed or supervised by Doug Graham, but in many health institutes and in the 1930's, 60's, 90', 2000, etc.

 

Jack

"But where would the body get the B12 to absorb if you are not getting any in your diet?"

We already have the bacteria producing B12 in our guts.

 

Jack

"Why then, when someone has B12 deficiency, do their B12 levels increase and their deficiency symptoms go away, upon taking B12? If they cannot absorb it from swallowing their saliva or breathing, why can they absorb it when it comes in supplemental form?"

That's why often oral supplementation has no effect and they inject B12 directly into the bloodstream.

 

 

"In the EPIC-Oxford study, 150 out of 250 vegans had B12 deficiency."

 

ahaha, one vegan out of 2 have b12 deficiency... so more than half of vegans here on this forum board have B12 deficiency. And this study included vegans supplementing and not supplementing. He just makes this conclusion: "Clearly, many of these vegans were not supplementing or eating enough fortified foods"... Clearly, this study is biaised. B12 deficiency is pretty rare but according to this study, it would be more common than people with the flue.

[Im Your Man]

Jack wrote "He (Doug Graham) says he has experienced people whose B12 levels return to normal three to four week after a fast (it’s not clear if the fast is three to four weeks, or some other length)."

Not true. The way Jack put it it means as if someone could do a long fast (1 week, 4 weeks, 3 months) and get normal B12 levels "three to four week after a fast", 3 or 4 weeks later. But what Doug wrote is simply "What I've experienced is people with B12 deficiency are put on a fast.They consume no food of any kind other than pure water, who three to four weeks later test perfectly normal for B12 levels."

 

Jack

If you read the article, you might find that Dr. Graham has an unusual take on preventative medicine. He mocks the medical establishment by saying, “And so before you have B12 deficiency, let’s take those B12 supplements, prophylactically. Before you have a problem with too little salt in your diet, you better supplement with salt. Before you have high blood pressure symptoms, let’s treat you for high blood pressure now.”

Jack doesn't agree with Doug's point of view on health, so maybe he practices the preventative medecine that most doctors promote:

 

Doug Graham

So where the medical model says, "Substances, forces, influences and conditions required for health when you're healthy are different than those required when you're sick. When you're sick, take this drug. Even though the drug will make you sick if you're well. They'll make you well if you're sick." And you're supposed to buy right into that concept. The milk is really good for you when you're well but if you're sick it'll make you congested.

How does the milk know if you're sick or well?

 

 

The hygiene model says, "Substances, forces, influences, and conditions are the same required in health as for regaining our health, but at all times they must be modified to meet the needs of the individuals." So, some days you need more sleep than you do other days but you always need sleep. Some days you need more fitness activity but you still need it. Some days you need more sunshine than others but we all need fitness, and sunshine and proper food, enough rest and joy and human touch, and enough interaction with other creatures on the planet.

[Im Your Man]

 

 

durianrider eats 3 heads of lettuce a day that is grown in between all other plants in his own backyard. he doesn't wash it. all the b12 is on the head of lettuce.

Good point.

Graham is on point about high-fat diets but banana's and dates in high quantity are not for human consumption. If you have to drink a lot of water just to counter-act the affects of the banana protein; its like eating a high-fat meal and counter-acting the affect of the fats with a glass of red wine.

I don't think he says to eat lots of dates, there's almost no dates in the recipes of his book. But yeah there's some 10 or 16 banana smoothie in his book, this is blended with some water if needed, and some greens if desired.

I'm not eating like the 811 but sometimes I used to eat 8-10 bananas with 8-10 dates in one meal and I felt great ! But he promotes to eat lots of exotic sweet fruits that contain less sugar and more water than bananas and dates. No need to drink lots of water, since fruits and greens are already 60-90% water. Doug even says drinking water is not natural for humans. But you're right if we eat lots of sugary fruits like bananas, dates, sultanas, perhaps it is better to drink more water. Durianrider drinks gallons of water.

[Im Your Man]

I'm not eating like the 811 but sometimes I used to eat 8-10 bananas with 8-10 dates in one meal and I felt great!

 

I say we are not meant to eat banana's because when they fully ripen on the tree; they eventually split open and the edible part of the banana falls on the ground. It makes sense to eat fruits easily accessible to us on the ground. As for the exotic fruits; we are not all living in the tropics. Exotic fruits are non-existint and if they were; I'm sure they would cost a crazy amount.

 

I have no problem with gluten. I can eat a serving of 300g(1000 calories) of pasta which has a total glycemic load of 38; it may be considered high but pasta is a complex carb, so it takes time to digest.

 

If we look at eating 10 bananas(1000 calories), they have a glycemic load of 100 with simple sugars that digest right away. 100 is super high for a glycemic load in one shot. You would have to go exercise right away and drink a crazy amount of water.

So you're saying that bananas, a natural food, is not good for humans, but pastas, which does not exist in nature, is better for humans. Bananas are the favorite stapple of primates, we are primates. We're like monkeys on two legs.

Did you feel great right away for a short period of time? Like a quick boost?

I just felt good in a normal, natural way, Not a quick boost followed by feeling exhausted. This ain't coffee or refined sugar