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Honey, I am confused!


vege
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I know that "true" vegans don't use honey, since it's animal product, but can someone explain what's the big deal about it?

I know in large-scale honey production they don't care much if they kill some bees in the process of collecting honey, but here where I live, you buy honey mostly from the small beekeepers, and those are the people who would never hurt bees, since my grandfather was one, and I know how much he adored bees, and how careful he treated them.

Anyway, I don't eat honey, but recently I was writing an article for a magazine about colony collapse disorder, which increased here since they have started to use BAYER pesticides, and the beekeepers told me that bees as species are endangered and are almost eradicated. This is bad for the whole ecosystem, since bees pollinate most of the plants (we eat). They said to me that in order to make thing better, more and more people should keep bee hives.

Now I'm wondering if I'm actually doing wrong by not buying honey and supporting beekeepers...

What do you say?

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I heard this some time ago, and it doesn't surprise me. i tried to keep a hive when i was little(i love bugs!!), wasps take over the nest sometimes and it's heartbreaking:(I like their dance when they find something everyone needs to see.

 

If they did that to my hive, and with the lack of habitat it wouldn't be a shock that poor little honey bees aren't thriving.

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Presumably it's possible to keep bees without stealing their honey. If it is a matter of money, and if it's a necessity to keep bees in order to keep the species alive, then it should be subsidized by the government.

 

To not buy honey is a non-action, I don't think a person can be to blame for it. So to say "by not buying honey..." is to say that you should buy a certain quantity, how much is expected etc?

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Since I don't need honey and bees get angry if I try to take it from them I let them keep it. It's just a matter of not taking something from another creature just because I like it.

 

Bee keepers don't care about bees, the same as dairy farmers don't care about cows and egg farmers don't care about chickens. They are being used as a means for profit.

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Since I don't need honey and bees get angry if I try to take it from them I let them keep it. It's just a matter of not taking something from another creature just because I like it.

 

Bee keepers don't care about bees, the same as dairy farmers don't care about cows and egg farmers don't care about chickens. They are being used as a means for profit.

Well I think the point is that if bees face extinction, then we would be screwed without them, therefore we would need to maintain their population.

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Since I don't need honey and bees get angry if I try to take it from them I let them keep it. It's just a matter of not taking something from another creature just because I like it.

 

Bee keepers don't care about bees, the same as dairy farmers don't care about cows and egg farmers don't care about chickens. They are being used as a means for profit.

Well I think the point is that if bees face extinction, then we would be screwed without them, therefore we would need to maintain their population.

 

The bees aren't dying off because we don't take enough of their honey. It's that we are spraying poison on everything. The only way to really save the bees is to stop with the poison, but that isn't going to happen any time soon.

 

There are already some "bee reserves" in various places away from pesticides where people don't gas the hives and steal the honey. Those are very different than local bee farmers trying to guilt people into buying honey from them "to save the bees." Also, there are many remote places where wild bees live undisturbed by humans.

 

The reason I have issues with keeping beehives as a means of preservation is that you have to either support commercial bee keepers or disturb wild colonies to start a new "protected" colony. And, it does not fix the problem, which is that people have not learned that poison is dangerous and they very well may kill everybody before they figure it out.

 

Bees can be reintroduced to areas where human ignorance and greed has killed off the native species, but they will just die as well if we keep spraying pesticides. What will probably happen is that some scientist working for bayer or monsanto or some other chemical company will genetically engineer bees to be immune to the pesticides we keep dumbing on everything and we end up with a "killer bees" situation.

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I eat raw organic honey. And I always believe that if another Vegan is really against me eating honey they should quit eating anything that has been produced with the use of insecticides. (For our health, and the health of the planet we should anyhow - but it IS pretty hard to live 100% organic vegan in this society). Oh and car tires..... we just cannot win.

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I eat raw organic honey. And I always believe that if another Vegan is really against me eating honey they should quit eating anything that has been produced with the use of insecticides. (For our health, and the health of the planet we should anyhow - but it IS pretty hard to live 100% organic vegan in this society). Oh and car tires..... we just cannot win.

Honey is very easy to live without, and by comparison, as you say, living 100% organic and without car tires is very hard. That is why you presumably have people telling you to stop eating honey, since it's as simple as that, whilst the things you compare it to are not.

 

I don't think you should worry about what other people are doing, or not doing, there's no need to compare yourself to them, you should do what you think is right.

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I don't consider insects animals, they are insects. So I will eat their food.

Oh and btw, the bee's aren't being killed by pesticides, they were doing fine until the secret UN program for solar shielding started in the mid-90s called chemtrails. Look it up online. They spray particularized aluminum and barium which f*ck up the bee's radar system and also kills them.

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It doesn't matter if you consider insects animals or not. They try to protect themselves and their honey, that means we shouldn't try to take it. If you don't care about exploiting creatures that try to protect themselves then you aren't vegan. I don't understand why so many people want to be called vegan so badly, but don't actually believe in the philosophy.

 

Also, chemtrails are fake. It's made up conspiracy theory bullshit.

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Also, chemtrails are fake. It's made up conspiracy theory bullshit.

 

Chemtrails aren't fake, same with weather modification.

That's just your opinion.

Perhaps you've already made up your mind that the government loves you and would never do anything in secret.

 

Anyways leave discussions like this for another thread.

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I don't consider insects animals, they are insects.
Firstly, like chewybaws says, insects are animals. They are in the Invertebrate class of animals; those that don't have a vertebra like arachnids and worms etc.

 

But getting back to the original question I feel that as honey is produced by bees for bees, like cow milk is for calves etc, then is is ethically wrong to take it from them. There are also the humane concerns of large-scale bee keeping such as killing off the bees in winter to keep costs done, removing the Queen Bee's wings so she can't fly away.... Small-scale bee keepers and hobbyists don't tend to do that though and they usually do care about their bees very much.

 

The honey bee is in real danger, they are being poisoned by pesticides and insecticides, their habitats are being destroyed, the Varroa mite is killing them and basically they are dying out. This is not just terrible for them but it threatens the whole of planet Earth. The planet needs bees because they pollinate the plants that other species eat, without bees (and other pollinating creatures) the plants would die out and then there would be nothing to eat.

 

I think that if someone is going to eat honey, they should choose to get it from small-scale bee keepers, organic if possible, and check-out the bee keepers to make sure they do treat their bees humanely. That way they are helping the bees but aren't profiting the uncaring large-scale producers.

 

As Richard says though, we do not need honey, so if someone just wants to help the bees then there are a number of things you can do and organisations you can support. You can even get bug nest boxes to give the little critters somewhere warm and safe to sleep. But probably the best thing you an do for bees is to plant shrubs and flowers that they like such as borage, buddleia (the butterfly bush), sunflowers, Asters, Lavenders - there's loads of info about which plants the bees love best on this site: http://www.themelissagarden.com/plants.html

 

If you really want to help the bees (and other pollinating creatures, and the world in general) then spend your money on plants, nest boxes and donating to the bee saving projects - you'll do a lot more good that way then buying one jar of honey every few months

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Honey is very easy to live without, and by comparison, as you say, living 100% organic and without car tires is very hard. That is why you presumably have people telling you to stop eating honey, since it's as simple as that, whilst the things you compare it to are not.

 

I don't think you should worry about what other people are doing, or not doing, there's no need to compare yourself to them, you should do what you think is right.

 

Just for clarification, my statement in regards to people not eating foods produced with pesticides is a reaction to peoples judgements. I don't worry _too_ much about what others are doing (but of course I do right, I would love people in general to eat drastically less animal products, supermarket food, processed food et, but I try not to hassle people too much about it).

 

I have very rarely had people say anything about me eating Honey actually. And yes, I could very simply not eat honey, or non-organic spinach, apples, or any other food product that hurts insects, but I've made my choices as to how far I am going with this I guess.

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Also, chemtrails are fake. It's made up conspiracy theory bullshit.

 

Chemtrails aren't fake, same with weather modification.

That's just your opinion.

Perhaps you've already made up your mind that the government loves you and would never do anything in secret.

 

Anyways leave discussions like this for another thread.

 

It is not my opinion. Chemtrails are bullshit. I know this because I started seeing people talk about it online years ago and instead of believing everything I heard on the internet I did some research. Turns out that only complete nut jobs believe in chemtrails. Every study from reliable sources shows that what people are seeing are "contrails" or condensation trails, which are artificial clouds created when condensation forms around airplane exhaust.

 

Contrails have been tested with barium concentrations of 68.8 ug/L, the epa allows 2.0 mg/L in drinking water. From what I have read, the chemtrail conspiracy is a result of misstating those test results as 68.8 milligrams per liter instead of 68.8 micrograms per liter. One microgram is 0.001 milligrams. So, condensation trails actually only contain 0.0688 milligrams per liter of barium, or 0.0688 parts per million.

 

I don't believe anything I've been told without looking into it myself and I do not trust the government to tell me the truth. But, I do trust science, because science doesn't lie. Also, I don't expect to convince anyone that has already decided to believe in conspiracy theories, but I am not going to allow someone to just say some stupid shit like that and not get called out.

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