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I appreciate the feedback but, I have pushed myself to 1800-2000 cals over the last 1-2 weeks, and, like usual, I put on weight. I feel so much better, stopped binge eating (which usually happens after 4 days at 1200 cals) and have energy in the gym. Really happy with how I feel but am very uncomfortable putting on my weight. If I should be eating this amount and, most of the feedback is that even 2k is not enough then why does this put weight on me?

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Try and keep in mind that short term your weight doesn't really matter, especially since most of the weight from fruits is water, plus I assume you're drinking extra water to help with your digestion.

The first time I tried the 811 diet I ate heaps, my digestion got really good, however I bombed out and had to give it up after a few weeks. I found out the hard way that just because I was eating heaps, it didn't mean I was getting enough calories. Fortunately this time round I have learnt from my mistakes and I force myself to eat enough calories (minimum of 2500, preferably closer to 3500). The problem I'm having this time is that I stopped eating for a bit over a week (who knew hard breakups could give you almost instant eating disorders??) before starting, so I'm still struggling to force enough food into my stomache. I also eat brown rice and sweet potato at night to give me a calorie boost. So yeah, the biggest problem that most people have is eating the wrong foods and ending up with like 1500 calories, even though they haven't stopped eating. Banana smoothies are your best friend! Easy 1000 calorie meal.

 

I know I'm new, but I figure every bit of experience is relevant.

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  • 3 months later...
Doctors have been known to prescribe drugs of all varieties, all of them poisonous. Doctors have performed surgeries on the wrong patients. Doctors have killed many people with wrong advice. Doctors have also done some good as well.

 

I think it might be wise to focus on the legitimacy of the advice rather than the person or credentials.

 

"Doctors have also done some good aswell" ......What an understatement

 

Perhaps Doctor's wouldn't make mistakes if they weren't so overworked and weren't made to work a ridiculous amount of hours.

 

As far as prescribing drugs is concerned, Doctors do what they feel is in the best interest of their patient's (as they are qualified to do so), btw, EVERYTHING is toxic, even too much water can be toxic, its the dosage that makes the difference.

 

When it comes down to a matter of life and death, being seen by someone with the right credentials is just that, a matter of life and death, why take anything else for granted?

Edited by HIT Rob
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  • 3 weeks later...

I would like to make the smallest point. Somebody above said to do it correctly you need 5 grams of carbs per pound of bodyweight. Im like 195 very lean. Thats 1000 grams of carbs a day, and at ten percent of that only 100 grams of protein, and maybe 40-50 grams of fat. Thats borderline ignorant. I will never eat that much sugar or carbohydrates in a single day.

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  • 7 months later...

What an interesting thread, and after reading through the last four pages I think it has confirmed to me that this is one nutritional program I will give a miss. After being in the health industry for 10+years and initially being borderline OCD on calories, protein intake etc, I can honestly say I have never felt better by simply eating what I feel my body requires at the time that it needs it. If that is 3,000cals one day and 1,800cals the next day so be it. It no longer concerns or worries me.

 

At nearly 40yrs old if my bloodwork is good, my energy levels are optimal in allowing me to do what I want to do and my mental clarity is better than it was when I was in my 20's I figure I'm doing okay. IMHO I do think that a lot of athletes consume more protein than they need and not enough healthy fats/EFA's, I would rather people placed higher priority over the quality and variety of foods they eat on a daily basis; any nutritional program or 'diet' that cannot be maintained successfully long term for whatever reason(s) obviously has flaws in it somewhere. Just my 2c MF.

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I have pushed myself to 1800-2000 cals ...... why does this put weight on me?

 

The short answer is: The body stores fat from giving your body reasons to think it needs it for emergencies: famine(nutritent & cal restriction), bad eating, toxins, upsetting metabolism).

 

For a long answer, I have a video:

 

 

Eating more is the only way out of this cycle. Your weight will eventually normalize(in 811 terms... you'll get skinny as FrUCtose.

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I've been eating 80/10/10 raw vegan for 3 years and have put on more muscle than I ever had before. My powerlifting strength is through the roof for my weight. It not only works well, it works extremely well and I can attest to that plus thousands of others. Don't put something down that you have never tried guys. And when you do try it, do it right and you will see what the world has been talking about.

 

Also Dr. Doug Graham has been training celebrities and olympic level athletes for many, many years. It definitely has it's place in the professional athletic world.

 

Paige, Rawsomehealth said it very well. You are not eating enough calories from fruit which explains the low blood sugar dizziness. Oil is crap. Also don't forget to eat a head of lettuce worth of greens every night, kills salt cravings. Keep up the good work and I'm looking forward to seeing your post single digit body fat results!

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The nutritional principles I was following was a bunch of vitamin supplements, protein powder, lots of rice etc. I was eating meat, grains and dairy. Typical "healthy" american diet. Ate little fruit and tiny salads. Then ate cooked vegan and felt better, but still lacked in the energy department. Replaced all the starchy foods with fruit and it was like upgrading to jet fuel!

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I'm on page one of this old thread. I'm still eating 80-10-10 (almost 5 years). The only change in my thinking is realizing that most people can't just jump into this diet. I had already been vegan and high-fruit for 15 years. So the transition was easy.

 

I still have the hobby of clearing up misunderstandings about nutrition as it concerns 811...

 

Correction: 811 is around 500g of carbs a day

 

Technically, the body DOES make protein.... from amino acids(which is underestimated in fruit)

 

many vegans IMO look very aged, sagging skin,

Look at me. I'm 45. In this video, I show pics from when I went vegan. I said "I haven't aged!!!" (seriously, check it out)

 

 

 

I....bet this is from inadequate protein intake.

You bet your life!!!!!

 

 

You only need .5g per lb of bodyweight. Any more, ages you.

 

 

.....can cause "insulin resistance". This is a fact, and is commonly referred to as "type 2 diabetes"

 

Not fact; the jury's out. But animals - and people - on a naturally low-fat (Frugivore) diet don't have those issues. High-fat-humans do.

 

The latest science is: Too much fat blocks insulin receptors from taking glucose from the blood - leading to prolonged high levels of blood glucose, which prolongs insulin production.

Because glucose can't leave the bloodstream, the pancreas continues to create redundant insulin, leading to exhaustion of pancreas, and diabetes.

 

Nature makes no foods both high in fat and carbs. We're meant for the carbs; not high-fat.

 

PS - the links in the next post are from Harvard MEDICAL SCHool. The MED ind. is anti-health, pro-$$$$.

Edited by New World Vegan
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We're meant for the carbs; not high-fat.

I'm not so sure about that although I agree with most of everything else you wrote above. Depends entirely on the type/source of carbs (GI load primarily) and the type of fats. For example, Okinawan people are one of the healthiest in the world (lowest rates of preventable disease and many of them living 100 years and beyond) and they have a very high intake of EFA's.

 

This is a great little quote from what I consider to be a well written and articulated article despite the fact that the author tries to highlight the benefit of meat, fish and dairy at the end (although he does recognise that they need to be consumed minimally). Even if you don't agree with it, you have to admit there's at least some food-for-thought in there

 

 

"Today, at the beginning of the 21st century some 10,000 years later, we know exactly why we were never meant to consume carbohydrates on a regular basis, let alone in large quantities as we do today, such that they provide a significant part of our daily calories—sometimes even the majority! We know exactly why because we have pretty clearly understood the primary effect of phytic acids or phytates, the importance of dietary fats, and the insulin mechanism." GUILLAUME BELANGER

 

 

Link to full article: http://healthfully.wordpress.com/2012/02/06/we-were-never-meant-to-eat-simple-or-starchy-carbohydrates/

 

PS - the links in the next post are from Harvard MEDICAL SCHool. The MED ind. is anti-health, pro-$$$$.

Even if that were the case that doesn't make them a source of information that should simply be dismissed. I don't believe you can label and generalise the whole medical industry like that, that's simply not right.

 

Anyhow I hope this thread can continue to be an interesting and insightful discussion, so thanks to all of of you that are contributing MF.

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  • 3 weeks later...

"Experts still have a long way to go to connect the dots between fructose and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, diabetes, and heart disease. Higher intakes of fructose are associated with these conditions, but clinical trials have yet to show that it causes them."

 

I started an 80/10/10 journey about a week or so ago. First thing I noticed? Belly flattened. The little flab I had directly on my belly is practically gone. The article makes a lot of generalizations, and then denounces foods made with added sugar. Sure, I'll buy that.

 

You know what would be interesting? If Fruit Based Athlete, Fruit Based Vegan, or even myself, went to the doctor, and had our liver fat levels tested. I'd be game for this. Maybe I should do so after a few more months on the diet.

 

MF, I'm pretty ignorant on how the medical field operates in NZ, but here in the States, it is pretty clear that their findings are greatly skewed by third-party groups with a ton of money; especially when it comes to diet. Consider that one of the holder's of a high position within the FDA is a former lobbyist for Monsanto - aka the leader in GMO based foods in America. That right there is enough for me.

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"Were made for carbs; not fat"

 

Our brain, CNS, and Skeletal musculature system derive most of their energy from glucose, however the fact is, the body can find other pathways to produce more than enough glucose for these systems to thrive on zero carb intake, Hence why there is NO essential carbs.

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MF, I'm pretty ignorant on how the medical field operates in NZ, but here in the States, it is pretty clear that their findings are greatly skewed by third-party groups with a ton of money; especially when it comes to diet. Consider that one of the holder's of a high position within the FDA is a former lobbyist for Monsanto - aka the leader in GMO based foods in America. That right there is enough for me.

Same over here mate, which is why we still have TV adverts every day claiming that kids need dairy for calcium (funded by Fonterra) and other BS like that. I had a lady in the shop yesterday and I was trying to explain that you only absorb around 35% of the calcium from dairy versus all of the calcium that is bioavailable in plants, greens etc ~ she looked at me like I'd just got off the planet Mars

 

Money just controls what the 'big guys' want us to perceive as being good nutrition which is why I don't buy into anything unless I have done my own research.

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Same over here mate, which is why we still have TV adverts every day claiming that kids need dairy for calcium (funded by Fonterra) and other BS like that. I had a lady in the shop yesterday and I was trying to explain that you only absorb around 35% of the calcium from dairy versus all of the calcium that is bioavailable in plants, greens etc ~ she looked at me like I'd just got off the planet Mars

 

Money just controls what the 'big guys' want us to perceive as being good nutrition which is why I don't buy into anything unless I have done my own research.

 

And that, my friend, is why we are mates. I usually just tell them that dairy is juice intended for the sustenance of another species, and full of pus.

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You know what would be interesting? If Fruit Based Athlete, Fruit Based Vegan, or even myself, went to the doctor, and had our liver fat levels tested. I'd be game for this. Maybe I should do so after a few more months on the diet.

That would be interesting. Don't just stop at your liver values, get all of the main biomarkers measured. I'd be wanting to monitor these ones:

 

 

CRP

Lipids (HDL, LDL + total) and blood glucose levels ~ will need to be taken in a fasted state

ALT/AST

T3/T4 levels

Creatinine

Haematocrit

Ferritin

B12

Vitamin D ~ not sure what it's like in the States but here in NZ doctors are unwilling to check Vit D levels unless necessary so this one might be a no-go

 

 

The results of all of those will give you a pretty comprehensive base of what's going on MF.

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  • 3 months later...

I'm on the 80/10/10-Raw Till 4 diet since a month. And I eat everyday between 3500 and 4500cals. I have a lot of energy i lost 4 percent of my body fat, my skin is clearer and my teeth got much whiter. I started to do street workout. If you want to follow my transformation watch my video and subscribe my channel

Thanks for your support!!!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've just started reading "The 80/10/10 Diet" by Douglas Graham and I am surprised anyone could read this book and be convinced. I guess I'll come back to this thread when I've finished reading it and perhaps have something more insightful to say about the book.

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  • 1 year later...
"Were made for carbs; not fat"

 

Our brain, CNS, and Skeletal musculature system derive most of their energy from glucose, however the fact is, the body can find other pathways to produce more than enough glucose for these systems to thrive on zero carb intake, Hence why there is NO essential carbs.

 

The first sentence is true. Now the next statement while also true leaves out some important issues:

Gluconeogenesis is the conversion of proteins/amino acids to glucose, the preferred fuel for the body. This process is incredibly inefficient and produces toxic urea from the extra H+ ions as a byproduct. Your kidneys then have to work hard to get that out of your system. The urea turns into ammonia in the body and that is why sometimes sweat can smell like cat piss when someone is exercising in a carb deficient state.

Ketosis/fatty acid metabolism byproducts are ketones like acetone. They are very acidic and toxic to the body and causes metabolic acidosis in the body. Also overworking the kidneys. Why anyone would want to force their body into ketosis is beyond stupid.

 

The reasoning that somehow carbs are not our best fuel because we don't have essential carbs is complete rubbish.

Forcing our bodies to run on protein or fat is akin to putting diesel in a formula one.

Try running fast in a carb depleted state

Try working out carb depleted

 

Low carb diets are complete rubbish, destroy performance, and are unhealthy.

Check out plantpositive YouTube channel

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Just like in exercise or medicine, there is an individual response when it comes to dietary requirements, many individuals do much better on a lower carb diet vs a high carb diet, and visa versa. I personally do very well being fat adapted (my irregular heart beat has improved greatly), and I use carbs for performance and glycogen replenishment (my performance and lean body mass has only improved).

I also have only one normal functioning kidney, its function gets tested every 6 months, since becoming more fat adapted, my kidney function has actually improved.

 

Best

Rob

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Just like in exercise or medicine, there is an individual response when it comes to dietary requirements, many individuals do much better on a lower carb diet vs a high carb diet, and visa versa. I personally do very well being fat adapted (my irregular heart beat has improved greatly), and I use carbs for performance and glycogen replenishment (my performance and lean body mass has only improved).

I also have only one normal functioning kidney, its function gets tested every 6 months, since becoming more fat adapted, my kidney function has actually improved.

 

Best

Rob

 

You're probably right Rob but you are still running on carbs for your workouts. are you less than 40% carbs? My point was that going low carb was not ideal for athletic performance and I think that less than 40% of caloric intake is considered low carb.

The 80/10/10 has not been shown to be ideal for athletes either. I shoot for 70/15/15. At 3500 cal that would be 132g protein per day. More than enough I think. Carbs are needed for protein sparing and for fat burning. Too much protein and not enough carbs and you're forcing protein usage for energy not fat usage. Using protein as an energy source is not good.

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Oh god yeah, the high order fibers are purely glycolytic, carbs are a must for HIT. Completely agree, protein is not a good fuel source, its takes a lot of self experimentation to get the protein just right on a ketogenic diet. For me, I need no more than 100-120 grams of protein daily, ive gone up to 150-200+, however its too much. On a none training day my carbs would not exceed 30-50grams, on a training day i go triple that, but then every so often ill have a high carb - low fat day or two. Im a big believer in variation, and being sporadic / chaos theory, both with training and diet.

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