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Why not fish?


Guest Co
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I'm a pesco-vegitarian and I often eat many foods that people would associate with being a vegitarian or a vegan such as soy ice cream, soy meat subsitutes, tofu, ect.

I learned enough about the cons of meat like pork and beef to keep me away but what about fish? I haven't heard too many anti fish arguments. If anyone can make a strong case why not to eat fish please post!

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Other than the unethical part of it? Dolphins for example are cruelly captured from fisheries and its a sick business. Regular fish as in macro and such one reason would be, "Would you like a hook in your mouth?". If its not required for you you to live, and they suffer from it, then thats when ethics and morals come into play.

 

In the case of health though, a majority of fish has high concentrations of mercury and they also have dioxins. Plus we pollute the water so much, they get affected by it, then we eat it (guess thats a stab back at us!). Too much of one thing is bad.

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Hey Co,

 

I think a few others will chime in too about the Fish thing. I thought I'd extract something from Our Rap Battle in the Entertainment section that I wrote about Fish:

 

"I've been fishin, yeah right you be wishin that maybe it’s true, but no fishing for me, I just let them be, let them live without a hook in they mouth, don’t look at me like that, you know what I’m talking about.

 

It’s about freedom to swim as they spin on the edge of the rim trying to avoid the pin that’s trying to suck them in, so they won’t have a life no more, pulled out of their home and thrown on the floor, beaten over the head with a 2X4."

 

That's a pretty good reason to avoid them I think.........but commercially it won't be a hook, but a large net that extracts thousands of fish and sea animals at a time and takes them from their home..........and then eventually they will be beat to death or just sliced open to death.

 

But you are looking at it from a "health food" standpoint. I would assume that fish is not quite as unhealthy as "most" other meats, but it's still a meat product and still has potential to cause health concerns when eating it, some of which my man Kollision mentioned above.

 

Have a good one man, good times yesterday at the graduation!

 

We'll find a card game next time.

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Im a cold hearted bastard. Im going to need a more persuasive argument to get me to give up fish. I mean I eat veggie meat even if I drop it on the sidewalk.... I just have to blow on it or wipe in on my pant leg. And the fishes pain, well respect to anyone who actually respects all creatures pain but hopefully you arent the same guys squishing spiders with your shoes when your lady gets scared because then my friends you would be called a hypocrite.

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Co,

 

You ever seen the pictures of fish in nets that have just been lifted out of the sea? The pics with their eyes bulging/popped out their heads? I think coz of the rise in pressure when the nets are raised. That or maybe because of suffocation.

 

Ever seen a squid/octopus being repeatedly pummelled against the ground whilst still alive?

 

Ever seen a lobster ( not strictly a fish I know ) being boiled alive?

 

Why don't you try some shark fin? Nice how the fins are cut off the shark whilst it is still alive. Then the shark is dropped back in the ocean whilst still alive, to die a painful death on the sea floor.

 

How about all the fish that are caught in nets that aren't required by commercial fishermen and are just thrown back dead in the oceans? Nets don't just catch cod for example, they'll catch other fish that happen to be in the area as well.

 

Fish sticks are on the verge of collapse in som eof the worlds oceans because of other fishing.

 

What about the damage commercial trawling does to the ocean floor and the aquatic eco-system?

 

Commercial fish farms use high amounts of chemicals that are neither good for you, the fish or the environment. Fish from farms also escape and breed with wild fish, thus damaging the gene pool and selection of wild fish.

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Co,

 

You ever seen the pictures of fish in nets that have just been lifted out of the sea? The pics with their eyes bulging/popped out their heads? I think coz of the rise in pressure when the nets are raised. That or maybe because of suffocation.

 

Ever seen a squid/octopus being repeatedly pummelled against the ground whilst still alive?

 

Ever seen a lobster ( not strictly a fish I know ) being boiled alive?

 

Why don't you try some shark fin? Nice how the fins are cut off the shark whilst it is still alive. Then the shark is dropped back in the ocean whilst still alive, to die a painful death on the sea floor.

 

How about all the fish that are caught in nets that aren't required by commercial fishermen and are just thrown back dead in the oceans? Nets don't just catch cod for example, they'll catch other fish that happen to be in the area as well.

 

Fish sticks are on the verge of collapse in som eof the worlds oceans because of other fishing.

 

What about the damage commercial trawling does to the ocean floor and the aquatic eco-system?

 

Commercial fish farms use high amounts of chemicals that are neither good for you, the fish or the environment. Fish from farms also escape and breed with wild fish, thus damaging the gene pool and selection of wild fish.

 

I did not know about the shark fin thing. that sucks

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Co what sort of argument do you want? It seems you don't eat meat for health reasons, from all of the poisons that bioaccumulate in fish do you really want to eat them? Do you eat cheese and drink milk? If so then, Why? Or am I wrong and you don't eat meat for ethical reasons?

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This may have been brought up in another post. But this incident deems a look at.

Some years ago I was teaching at a high school in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Nice little place, about 500 kids. Can't beat that. Better than the schools in the Central Valley with 2000-5000 kids.

Anyway the librarian there was a very interesting lady who was into health issues. She told me that a few years previous to our knowing each other she went on a tuna eating fest. It was low fat, and lots-o-protein.

After a few months she began getting sick. Flus, colds, chills, aches, pains, joint pain, etc. She went to her doctor who decided she had some immune system issues. He had her record everything she ate. When she showed him the list, and he saw the tuna, apaprently he about pooped. He then tested her for mercury poisoning, and it was determined that is what she had.

I relayed this story once before to a different forum of people who were opening, and eating, those five pound industrial cans of tuna a week. At that time I was told I was a dumb mo&^er f%c^%er. However, research continues to indicate that cold water oceanic fish carry a high amount of mercury in their system.

 

Jon

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Hey, im not hostile, maybe my humor doesn't always translate through typed words.

Thanks to everyone who responded to my post.

 

 

-CO

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OK, here it goes...

Reasons:

1 -Eating pelagic species can equate to a high mercury count, thus effecting your health and of course your weight lifting

2 - Fish have a tendency to carry toxins from where they were "harvested"

3 -Commercial harvesting of fish is devestating to our oceans and reef systems, and the by catch is unbelievable, they may have helped eleviate part of catching dolphins in some cases but continue to catch sea turtles and other marine life (the shrimp industry is the biggest culprit)

4 -You have no idea how the fish were handled. They may have been on the boat or on the docks for some time before being transported. Thus, bacteria has infested the fish. (FYI - most fish are full of parisites)

5- (This was the main one for me, since I knew where my fish had come from and how it was transported and stored) - Cholestrol - I can not tolerate cholestrol even the fish type. it has a huge impact on my system and causes my natural cholestrol to sky rocket

(this of course is a personal issue and may not effect you)

 

This may or may not persuade you on the "Fish Issue", it is ultimately your decision. I commend you for giving up all the other animal products. Fish was my last "hold out" so I know where you come from. However, you may not wish to "admit it" when asking for advice on Vegan Boards.

 

I sincerely hope you continue to visit us here, and hope eventually you consume a complete Vegan diet.

 

Good Luck!

Edited by SeaSiren
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Hi guys!!!

 

Kollision and Co - sometimes it is difficult to convey the emotion or tone with which the words are being said (or typed). SO nobody get upset unless it is CLEAR that somebody is being hostile, okay

 

Co, please do not allow yourself to be alienated by the misunderstanding. I can assure you that we all mean well here And thank you for coming to this forum and wanting to be educated on these issues. I commend you for that, because many people do not want to learn anything and want to continue living in ignorrance and wilful blindness. I therefore commend you that you are here, asking for, and willing to listen to the fishes' side of the story!! There are a multitude of reasons why not to eat fish. Here is some info that you might find of interest:

 

Health reasons to avoid fish:

Mainstream medical and nutrition industry purport that fish are good sources of essential fatty acids. However, the high amounts of fat and cholesteral in many fish and the lack of fiber in ALL fish make fish a poor choice. Fish are also often high in mercury and other environmental toxins that have no place in an optimal diet. Fish oils have ben popularized as an aid against everything from heart problems to arthritis. The bad news about fish oils is that omega - 3s in fish oils are highly unstable molecules that tend to decompose and, in the process, unleash dangerous free radicals. Research has shown that omega - 3s are found in a more stable form in vegetables, fruits and beans. All the pollution of the oceans are absorbed through the flesh of the fish and so when we eat fish, we are pretty much eating a highly contaminated "food." For more info on the ways in which fish is bad for your health, please email the Physicians Committee For Responsble Medicine and request free info about how fish is bad for you. They will send you whatever proof you need with pleasure. Email them at [email protected]. or visit their website at www.pcrm.org.

 

 

 

ETHICAL/COMPASSIONATE REASONS:

Contrary to what the fishing industry and most governments would have us believe, fish DO in fact feel pain. They just do not have the vocal chords to voice it. Fishes capacity for pain and suffering have been studied and documented by some of the world's leading marine biologists. Hauled from the deep, fish experience an excruciatingly painful decompression, followed by a slow, distressing death by suffocation. I would hate to be suffocated. Just put yourself in the animals' shoes. Imagine drowing in water. What a horrible and scary death that would be. Fish drown and suffocate OUT of water.

 

Again, no living creature wants a hook in its mouth. Again, put yourself in the animals' shoes.

 

I had fish when I was litle, and I could tell you that fish DO have personalities of their own. I know it is hard to beleive or picture but it is true. They are every bit as interesting and unique and precious as other animals. And they are no less innocent and deserving of our protection. In fact, if we fel sorry for animals generally because they are voiceless and defenseless, we should feel the most sorry for fish and bugs (like you correctly suggest), because neither have ANY vocal chords and no limbs with which to kick with and defend themselves with. THis fact alone calls for compassion, mercy and protection.

 

 

Moreover, the demand for fish supports industries which I am sure you DO find cruel and unacceptable. For example, if you buy Canandian fish products (including mussels, shrimps, etc.) you are supporting the mass slaughter of baby harp seals in front of their mothers. Please visit www.seashepherd.org for information on the boycott, the campaign and how you can help end this barbaric and heart wrenching cruelty.

 

As somebody mentioned. fishing nets are like huge bulldozers in the ocean that catch not just the targetted fish, but others caught in its path, like dolphins and other precious marine wildlife. These animals are left to die in the nets, and the trawlers have openly referred to this as "trawler trash." I do not want to bring God into this, but I must say that refering to God's creatures as "trawler trash" is sacrilige and I find it very offensive and enraging. No innocent life is "trash". It is precious. What we need here is a paradigm shift. I believe that only an empthathetic and merciful spirit, with a reverance for ALL life, will be able to truly heal the world. Indeed, non violence not only starts with your plate, but also with the bug crawling across your kitchen floor or annoyingly buzzing around your head when you are tryint to sleep. Of course, there is no such thing as an "evil" bug that is TRYING to piss us off. All animals want to do is to survive.

 

 

The ocean is full of biodiversity and natural wonders and magnificent majestic creatures that need to be protected and respected, not vaccumed up and then tossed as "trawler trash."

 

I commend you for choosing the lives of cows, chickens and pigs over your tastebuds. Your conscience, your soul and your health are all better off for it I can assure you. But please do not forget that fish, too, are animals, not vegetables, and need us to be able to hear their plight and pleas for mercy, especially since they cannot voice it at all.

 

I totally agree with you that it would be hypocritical for a veg person to squish an innocent and helpless spider if they are veg for ethical and compassionate reasons. There is no reason to feel empathy and mercy toward fish and yet have no problem or remorse for mindlessly, arrogantly and thoughtlessly snuffing out the life of a tiny tiny creature with your big giant human foot or hand. BUgs may be annoying, but all they want to do is live, and it would take nothing from us to simply gently remove them outdoors and set them free like Kollision does (and like I do). You rock Kollision!! Indeed, I urge everybody who has managed to find compassion in their hearts for animals to apply that philosophy to all living things. Choose life or killing, kindess over the arrogant and thoughtless human disregard for the life of another creature, no matter how small, no matter what species.

 

Imagine how hard that little spider has worked to survive in this big bad world full of giant human feet. To just flush its efforts at survival down the toilet in 2 seconds with mindless human arrogance is uacceptable. So we should thank our lucky stars that we were born as humans and have mercy on those unfortunate beings that did not hit the jack pot when they came into this world as bugs, fish, cows or any NON human form.

 

We welcome you to our community and hope we can inspire you to become fish free. Please do not be afraid to speak candidly hear.

 

Natalie

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Thank for posting on this topic. Co is one of my best friends I've ever had, and he's been my friend longer than anyone; since we were about 5 years old I think.

 

Co is actually the ONLY friend that I hang out with in person who contributes to this message board. All my other "friends" I hang out with can't be bothered to visit my website, which is too bad, but that's how it goes. Most of my friends are non-vegan, so I'm really pleased to have so many online friends. I've become great "friends" with a bunch of people through veganbodybuilding.com and this forum, including a bunch of you who post regularly.

 

So anyway, thanks for replying to Co's post, I'm glad we have a supportive community to answer questions for those who may not be vegan but who are very interested in the lifestyle.

 

P.S. In the Entertainment section, Co just posted a new entry in the Comedy Battle based on this FISH topic. It is really awesome and when I'm more awake I'll reply to his post with a battle of my own.

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Just another follow-up. I spoke with Co on the phone today and he was worried he may have offended someone with his humor. He was just joking about the spider thing. Co and I perform Stand-up comedy in Portland, OR so sometimes we joke about things........well, frequently we joke about things so he didn't mean anything bad, believe me, I've known the guy for 20 years.

 

He actually appreciated some insight. As a non-vegan, he appreciated the information, and attempted to express it through his comedic keyboard.

 

I know most of you on here are vegan but please remember that hundreds are "viewing" the articles and not posting and may not even be registered, so we want to try to welcome as many non-vegans as we can. That is one of our goals, so they can learn from us.

 

It's awesome to chat with other vegans about absolutely anything, but I'm just as happy with the non-vegans checking out the site, because we can really take that opportunity to have a positive impact on them and ultimately help them choose a more compassionate lifestyle.

 

Have a great week everyone, I will be very busy over the next 2-3 weeks but I'll be posting when I'm able to.

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Hi Co and anybody still not sure about eating fish!!

 

Here is something that I think lays it on the line pretty well. Hope it can at least get you thinking.

 

 

"Sultry Carré Otis wears a mermaid’s fins—and nothing else—in a new pro-fish billboard. PETA and Otis hope the ad will inspire people to relate to sea life and stop contributing to their mass killing through “seafood” consumption. “If we saw the process of what it takes to get that animal packaged and in that store, I think a lot of us would think really differently,” says Carré. “So, for me, it was just kind of taking that next step, which is part of the evolution, part of the process of going, ‘OK, I just can’t put anything that was living in my body.’ I truly believe that we are what we eat and that what we put into our bodies has energy. The suffering that animals endure for human consumption is appalling and has touched and affected me since I was a child.”

 

Fish Are Friends, Not Food

 

Carré Otis Ad (PDF Format)

Though they look very different from us, fish are actually communicative and sensitive animals. For example, groupers bark when they spot predators, cichlids emit mating grunts, and hamlet fish even make orgasmic squeals. Sylvia Earle, former chief scientist of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and all-around fish expert, explains, “I never eat anyone I know personally. I wouldn’t eat a grouper anymore than I’d eat a cocker spaniel. They’re so good-natured, so curious. You know, fish really are sensitive, they have personalities, they hurt when they’re wounded.”

 

That Hook Hurts!

The ad’s premiere comes just weeks after a study published by the Royal Society in Britain confirmed the findings of other studies, as well as what many marine biologists have been saying for years: Fish feel pain, just as all animals do. Commercially caught fish are often cut open while they are still alive or are left to die slowly—gasping, struggling, and suffocating. Another study published recently in the journal Nature reveals that fully 90 percent of the populations of large ocean-fish species have disappeared from the world’s oceans in recent decades. Additionally, countless nontarget animals such as sea turtles, dolphins, birds, and seals die in commercial fishing nets every year.

 

Fish Is Not Health Food

Fish flesh often contains toxic levels of mercury and PCBs—carcinogens that have been linked to many kinds of cancer. Hundreds of thousands of North Americans get sick and many die each year from eating contaminated seafood. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recommends that pregnant women not eat the flesh of large fish, such as swordfish and mackerel, which is frequently contaminated with methyl mercury and can harm an unborn child’s developing nervous system. Tuna flesh has also been found to contain high levels of this chemical, which can be hazardous to young children as well.

 

Tuna-Safe “Tuna”

The freshest catch of the day isn’t from the sea. Faux tuna, scallops, shrimp, and other fish-free products taste just as good as the “reel” thing, without the cruelty. Tofu and flavorful veggies are taking the place of fish at the center of the plate as people seek healthful alternatives to bacteria- and toxin-laden sea animals.

 

For more information about what’s wrong with eating fish and to get delicious mock fish recipes, visit FishingHurts.com.

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  • 2 weeks later...
And the fishes pain, well respect to anyone who actually respects all creatures pain but hopefully you arent the same guys squishing spiders with your shoes when your lady gets scared because then my friends you would be called a hypocrite.

 

I don't think that any vegan would thoughtlessly and arrogantly snuff the life of an insect, especially for stupid reasons like to impress women.

 

The whole message of veganism is that ALL living things deserve respect, even smaller beings that are very "different" from humans. I don't see how a vegan can NOT apply the ethical philosophy of veganism to bugs. YOur right, it would be VERY hypocritical, and that is why I think most if not all vegans are NOT bug squishers (especially for stupid reasons). There is no bigger turn on than a guy who would have the b$#lls to tell his lady, in the scenario you provided, to "get over it" and NOT squish the bug.

 

If I was a bug, the safest human contact for me would be with a vegan, cuase if a vegan won't respect my life, I don't see how anybody else could.

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  • 4 months later...

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