Why do some people dislike PETA?

[kollision]

It is not easy to put an animal to sleep, but the alternative life of suffering in some of the no-kill shelters can be just as bad (locked in small cages for years, suffering from lonliness, dementia, and sometimes they conditions they are kept in are inadequate)

 

I definitely agree with that.

 

I wish that all these animals never existed (even though I love them all) so that they would never have suffered by our hands. If I had a choice, I would have not have any of them alive at all if possible and not painful at all. Let us destroy each other, not involve others in it.

[Attila]

The only way to be a no kill nation, is to be a no birth nation. Millions of animals are in shelters, and millions suffer and unfortunatly as long as people support pet shops, pet breeders, and dont support the shelters then there will be a need for euthanasia. It is not easy to put an animal to sleep, but the alternative life of suffering in some of the no-kill shelters can be just as bad (locked in small cages for years, suffering from lonliness, dementia, and sometimes they conditions they are kept in are inadequate). You can go to our website helpinganimals.com for more information on what you can do. We always have to ask ourselves, what is in the best interest of the animals involved. The people who have to put the animals to sleep (many of whom are friends of mine) also suffer- They do society's dirty work, and for them it is not something that is easy, but for many of these animals it is a kind and gentle departure from a world of suffering and lonliness.

 

Hi there!

I just ask myself: if you have such a big budget, why can't you build new shelters and better homes for the animals? Why do you have to kill them instead?

[compassionategirl]

The only way to be a no kill nation, is to be a no birth nation. Millions of animals are in shelters, and millions suffer and unfortunatly as long as people support pet shops, pet breeders, and dont support the shelters then there will be a need for euthanasia. It is not easy to put an animal to sleep, but the alternative life of suffering in some of the no-kill shelters can be just as bad (locked in small cages for years, suffering from lonliness, dementia, and sometimes they conditions they are kept in are inadequate). You can go to our website helpinganimals.com for more information on what you can do. We always have to ask ourselves, what is in the best interest of the animals involved. The people who have to put the animals to sleep (many of whom are friends of mine) also suffer- They do society's dirty work, and for them it is not something that is easy, but for many of these animals it is a kind and gentle departure from a world of suffering and lonliness.

 

Exactly. So, like was said before in the "boycott pet breeders" thread, breeders are jerks, and so are the people that go to breeders instead of shelters.

[compassionategirl]

Attila:

 

 

I think the point is that even if we could build a bigger and better shelter, then another one, then another one, then another one.....but where does it stop? The point is that without a fundamental shift in our thinking and conduct, it wont stop. The need will remain large and insatiable - like a botttomless pit. It could never be fully satisfied if nothing else changes - like people's mentality with respect to companion animals, or indeed animals in general.

 

Bigger and better shelters is a band-aid solution, and a very small band-aid to a mammoth size problem! We need to address the root causes of WHY millions of animals are ending up in shelters in the first place -and breeders, however "responsible" and "loving" they may appear to some people, are a part of the problem (at least at this juncture), NOT A PART OF THE SOLUTION.

[Kathryn]

I wish that all cats and dogs and other domestic animals all had loving homes, but it's not reality for now.

 

I found out that the local shelter I volunteer at euthanizes about 200 animals a month! They do their best, but there is not room for them.

 

Most of the cats they euthanize are ill with contagious and fatal diseases or feral and thus not easily adoptable. Sometimes, they have to confiscate animals from idiotic (I'm being kind) animal "collectors," like 82 cats in some poor white trash trailer home (you can imagine the inbreeding---and the stench, since none of the cats were spayed or neutered!--the inbreeding, etc.).

 

Just like the killing of baby seals won't stop until there is no market for their fur (therefore making fur culturally unacceptable would be a big boon for the animals), the overpopulation of animals who must be euthanized won't stop until people become responsible and spay and neuter.

 

I'm ed when people bring a mother cat and her kittens into the shelter. If they'd had the mother spayed, the situation would never have happened.

 

(The shelter manager and I joke about instigating human euthanisia for some of these folks, but it's a pipe dream!)

[Attila]

Attila:

 

 

I think the point is that even if we could build a bigger and better shelter, then another one, then another one, then another one.....but where does it stop? The point is that without a fundamental shift in our thinking and conduct, it wont stop. The need will remain large and insatiable - like a botttomless pit. It could never be fully satisfied if nothing else changes - like people's mentality with respect to companion animals, or indeed animals in general.

 

Bigger and better shelters is a band-aid solution, and a very small band-aid to a mammoth size problem! We need to address the root causes of WHY millions of animals are ending up in shelters in the first place -and breeders, however "responsible" and "loving" they may appear to some people, are a part of the problem (at least at this juncture), NOT A PART OF THE SOLUTION.

 

Now I undersand a little bit more! But hey, Peta could at least try to do their best and build some shelters!

[Kathryn]

Now I undersand a little bit more! But hey, Peta could at least try to do their best and build some shelters!

 

Even better, IMO: sponsor free or low-cost (depending on income) spay and neuter clinics. Mobile ones, even, that go to the people. Make it as easy as possible for people to be responsible animal caretakers.

[flanders77]

I agree to Kathryn and Attila! Killing cannot be the solution. At least with all their money they should try to rescue the animals from being killed.

An of course adressing the root causes has to be the first thing to be done!

[willpeavy]

I think PETA already has a spay/neuter clinic and is big on promoting spaying/neutering. I'm not sure of the details though, if Mike B checks this thread again he'll probably know

[compassionategirl]

I think PETA already has a spay/neuter clinic and is big on promoting spaying/neutering. I'm not sure of the details though, if Mike B checks this thread again he'll probably know

 

Yes, I also believe that PETA does have that mobile spaying/neutering thing, offers low-cost spaying neutering (maybe even free) and promotes that and educates and raises awareness on that. It also asks people to go to shelters to adopt animals, NOT to breeders, pet shops, etc.

 

Like Mike said, unfortunately, PETA ends up having to do society's dirty work.

[compassionategirl]

http://www.helpinganimals.com/f-overpop3.asp

[PETAbodybuilder]

We do have a low cost spay and neuter program that offers assistance at a reduced cost for all procedures.

 

It is unfortunate that so many animals are in these shelters and are unwanted and unloved. I wish we could build a place where they could all run and be happy and never have to worry about being alone. The reality is that we have to educate those around us about these issuse, so that the number of animals that are euthanized is reduced becuase there aren't so many unwated animals being born into our society.

 

I am very pleased though to see this type of conversation going on here in this forum.

[crashnburn]

I did not read the whole thread.. but will re iterate my stand..

 

EXTREMISM

ELITISM

EXCLUSIVISM...

 

are all turn offs.. even if you do have those attributes.

 

The Buddha, Jesus, Moses, & other god/god likes ..none of them went around beating someone on the head to listen.

 

THEY HAD AN "AURA" that spoke for itself. A Leader leads.. does not push.

 

If you want someone to learn from you dont push and teach.. be the BALL.. and things will happen as they are suppossed to happen. Expect nothing..

 

Be prepared for the worst, Hope for the best.

[PETAbodybuilder]

That is the beauty of activism....

 

For what each of us do, whatever route we choose, and whatever road we end up walking down... as long as you become a voice. We each have to decide how far we are willing to go for our cause. For me the passion was strong enough to leave the Navy and to become a voice for animals. I have seen cruelty on many levels both towards humans and animals... It is awesome that we have outlets like these for discussions, and as I said before... We welcome any and all suggestions and advice. Dont think that we dont listen or wont take your opinions or thoughts inot consideration...

 

Any of you can contact me directly with anything: complaints, concerns, questions, or if you need some leaflets, or just want to know how to get active....

 

[email protected]

 

AIM: petabodybuilder

 

myspace: http://www.myspace.com/petabodybuilder

 

 

Thanks for all that each of you do for the animals...

 

Mike-

[compassionategirl]

I did not read the whole thread.. but will re iterate my stand..

 

EXTREMISM

ELITISM

EXCLUSIVISM...

 

are all turn offs.. even if you do have those attributes.

 

The Buddha, Jesus, Moses, & other god/god likes ..none of them went around beating someone on the head to listen.

 

THEY HAD AN "AURA" that spoke for itself. A Leader leads.. does not push.

 

If you want someone to learn from you dont push and teach.. be the BALL.. and things will happen as they are suppossed to happen. Expect nothing..

 

Be prepared for the worst, Hope for the best.

 

 

It is easy for you to speak of "extremism" and "elitism" when it isnt you that is the one that is suffering in silence, with no voice. Since you saw www.meetyourmeat.com, you should understand why animal rights activists feel that sense of urgency and moral outrage. And the meetyourmeat reveals only a fraction of the institutionalized torture of animals that has been going on almost since the beginning of human history.

 

Like my signature quote says, if the animal rights movement pushes too hard too fast (like you claim), it is because the excesses in the opposite direction are mammoth in comparison.

 

As far as your reference to "exclusivism", this is a VEGAN board, and you are in the animal rights category. Having said that, vb&f welcomes all people, omnis, vegetarians, etc in the hopes that they will learn something here about the plight of animals that they did not formerly realize and be inspired to live even more compassionately than ever before. To that extent, we are neither 'elitist' nor 'exclusive' here. However, "trolls", those that come here to cause trouble, or those that are abusive will be "excluded".

 

The best decision I ever made was to face the hypocrisy of my "happy cow" ethics and go from an ethical vegetarian to an ethical vegan. I invite you to do the same.

 

Finally, remember that even Jesus lost his temper (albeit only once) as a result of the injustices and disrespect he saw and "snapped" and acted violently/aggressively as a result. Injustice infuriates some of us, as it should. Animal rights is one of the noblest causes out there, and also the most difficult in a speciest society. Do you have any idea how daunting it is to defend the "least" regarded among us to those that benefit in some way from the status quo? I can assure you that there is nothing elitist about living with a constant awareness of the heart-wrenching suffering being inflicted on animals every second of every day. Before you criticize vegans for being elitist, pushy, angry, etc etc. try to empathize (not just sympathize) with the most abused, tortured, victimized and oppressed class of beings among us - i.e. the animals.

 

Lastly, people are hostile towards veganism/vegans usually because the fact that there are people out there living this ostensibly extremist lifestyle makes them feel guilty as hell - and it should.

 

I think what it comes down to for you is you grew up with bovine by-products, are addicted to them and/or love them, and just plain dont want to give them up and dont want to be made to feel guilty for not doing so. We have all been there. I certainly resisted giving up dairy for a while - I was under the self-delusional notion that "being vegetarian was more than enough," and "it was more than most other people were doing," and that "vegetarianism should be good enough since I was doing "my part" for the animals." Thoughts like those were what my internal dialogue consisted of. I was "annoyed" that vegetarianism was not enough. I soon realized that I felt annoyed most of the time because even as a vegetarian, my actions/choices were still not quite in sink with my inner essence; and my "ethical vegetarianism" was a compromise between my selfish and lazy streak (that is part of human nature) on the one hand, and a compassionate inner essence on the other (that I would like to think is also part of human nature).

 

The reality, however, is that if you are serious about treading upon the earth as gently and kindly as possible, veganism is the way.

[crashnburn]

I appreciate your compassion and energy in this direction cpgirl.

 

I still believe in that quote that ends in.. ".. show me and I shall remember".

 

I think we should all carry little portable videos of PETA type stuff on our PDAs, phones, media players etc.

 

If someone is interested.. show them and keep quiet. Let that SILENCE be the powerful thought that resonates through their minds. Trust me .. it is like the slow.. haunting.

 

I think an AGGRESSIVE STANCE is the way to tacklet it. I agree with you on that. But, the psychological GROUNDING into someones head needs to be INVOKED in a SMART manner.

 

BELIEFS CHANGE NOT WHEN SOMEONE SHOVES SOMETHING IN YOUR FACE. BELIEFS CHANGE WHEN YOU ARE INSPIRED AND INTERNALLY MOTIVATED BY WHAT YOU HAVE COGNITIVELY FIGURED OUT AND REACHED A DECISION ... A DECISION WITH A SELF COMMITED SENSE OF TOTAL OWNERSHIP. (wow.. that just came out).

 

PS: This is to some extent how great leaders motivate and convince their listeners..

 

PPS: But ofcourse every SALESPERSON has a unique way of selling their product or IDEA. Preaching is selling as well. The smart salesperson gets better results.. than the in your face you have to buy this car salesperson.

 

PPPS: Lets agree to disagree on the WAYS that these ideas need to be PREACHED even though the ideas remain the same.

[compassionategirl]

see blue responses

 

I appreciate your compassion and energy in this direction cpgirl.

 

I still believe in that quote that ends in.. ".. show me and I shall remember".

 

Good quote. I am all for showing people the gruesome footage. In fact, if I could, I would force them to watch, but that isnt a viable option unfortunately

 

I think we should all carry little portable videos of PETA type stuff on our PDAs, phones, media players etc.

 

Yes, that would certainly be a very effective way to shine a spotlight on the suffering. That does take place at various demonstrations when the activists can get their hands on the necessary elecontronic equipment. They stand on street corners, subjecting themselves to ridicule and insults, all for Truth - playing gruesome footage. Some people watch, some people turn away from the suffering.

 

If someone is interested.. show them and keep quiet. Let that SILENCE be the powerful thought that resonates through their minds. Trust me .. it is like the slow.. haunting.

 

The problem with this statement is the "if somebody is interested". Of course if somebody is interested, we will show them the footage and let the images do most, if not all, of the talking. A picture is indeed worth a thousand words. But this is the problem: Most people dont want to know, they dont want to see the suffering, they dont want to hear the suffering because they want to continue in their ways without feeling guilty. So what do we do with the wilfully blind - you know, the kind of people that cover their ears and eyes to the suffering while chewing a hamburger or wearing leather? Do we say "oh okay, since you arent really interested in compassion, I'll just stand back, leave you be, and allow you to continue in your ways without trying to educate you on the realities of your lifestyle choices." Um... if that was the approach that every animal rights person took, there would be far fewer vegans right now in the world, trust me on that one There are many different ways to be a voice for animals, and since the audience is a diverse group of humans, a diverse approach is necessary. Some people need shock therapy, others need flattery, others need gentle nudging, etc etc. You "feel" your audience and ascertain what approach they would be most receptive too. One thing that could never help an animal, however, is inaction and silence in the face of indifference or resistance. How many people do you know that would say, while having their nice turkey dinner, "Ya, by all means, show me all the gruesome and bloody details of the suffering and death of the turkey that I am feasting on tonight for dinner!"

 

 

I think an AGGRESSIVE STANCE is the way to tacklet it. I agree with you on that. But, the psychological GROUNDING into someones head needs to be INVOKED in a SMART manner.

 

Okay, so it sounds like we agree. With respect to the 'smart manner' comment, may I ask what makes you an expert on what is a 'smart' manner of animal rights activism? As somebody who has been involved with animal rights for a while now, I can tell you that there is no "one size fits all" in effective animal rights activist approaches. Different strategies work on different people.

 

BELIEFS CHANGE NOT WHEN SOMEONE SHOVES SOMETHING IN YOUR FACE.

 

Again, this is a sweeping statement that is only partially true. For some people, beliefs do change under those circumstances. They immediately changed for me when an activist shoved a t-shirt in my face that stated "If you wouldnt eat your dog, then why do you eat other animals?" along with some words to accompany what I had just read. On the other hand, there are of course some people that wont change with the Truth being shoved in their face. Like I said above, there is no "one size fits all" in animal rights advocacy, and no single approach has a monopoly on effectiveness.

 

BELIEFS CHANGE WHEN YOU ARE INSPIRED AND INTERNALLY MOTIVATED BY WHAT YOU HAVE COGNITIVELY FIGURED OUT AND REACHED A DECISION ... A DECISION WITH A SELF COMMITED SENSE OF TOTAL OWNERSHIP. (wow.. that just came out).

 

PS: This is to some extent how great leaders motivate and convince their listeners..

 

Granted. On the other hand, like I said elsewhere, socially progressive movements in history were often started by people who initially seemed "extremist" and "pushy".

 

PPS: But ofcourse every SALESPERSON has a unique way of selling their product or IDEA. Preaching is selling as well. The smart salesperson gets better results.. than the in your face you have to buy this car salesperson.

 

See above.

 

 

[willpeavy]

Some people just don't care though no matter what you do. I have a relative that I showed Meet Your Meat too and she was just like, "Okay that sucks, now let's go eat a hamburger."

[PETAbodybuilder]

There are many ways to reach different people, and like any effective salesman you have to find what connects to that person. For some it is the cruelty and that is enough, for some it is their health and that is enough, but you have to find what hits a resonating chord in that person. I play videos when I sit in coffee shops, I get people talking about it by walking away, by "accidentially" letting the volume jump to high, and it incites a conversation... you dont need to push it in their faces, but there are many ways to strike up conversations about animal rights and veganisim. If we only wait for people to ask for the information, then many will never know the truth about what they are eating, or the harm they are causing. We of course are spokespeople for the animals and must enusre that all of our actions are always going to garner the best response for them. It sometimes means coming out of your own comfort zone and learing how to bring the issue up in any conversation... But if we don't speak for them, and do not act for them... who will?

 

But I also agree.... there are many of us, with many ways, and with many opinions... but in all... we all share the common bond of love and compassion for what we are doing... of course we are not all going to agree on the tactics... but if the end results are the same... we needn't agree...

[compassionategirl]

Some people just don't care though no matter what you do. I have a relative that I showed Meet Your Meat too and she was just like, "Okay that sucks, now let's go eat a hamburger."

 

[compassionategirl]

There are many ways to reach different people, and like any effective salesman you have to find what connects to that person. For some it is the cruelty and that is enough, for some it is their health and that is enough, but you have to find what hits a resonating chord in that person. I play videos when I sit in coffee shops, I get people talking about it by walking away, by "accidentially" letting the volume jump to high, and it incites a conversation... you dont need to push it in their faces, but there are many ways to strike up conversations about animal rights and veganisim. If we only wait for people to ask for the information, then many will never know the truth about what they are eating, or the harm they are causing. We of course are spokespeople for the animals and must enusre that all of our actions are always going to garner the best response for them. It sometimes means coming out of your own comfort zone and learing how to bring the issue up in any conversation... But if we don't speak for them, and do not act for them... who will?

 

But I also agree.... there are many of us, with many ways, and with many opinions... but in all... we all share the common bond of love and compassion for what we are doing... of course we are not all going to agree on the tactics... but if the end results are the same... we needn't agree...

 

Bingo Mike. Exactly, especially the words in red.

[jonathan]

Hmmm. I agree that there needs to be more exposure for animal rights and how badly animals are in fact treated, I just think that many of the methods that peta imploys are stupid.

 

I disagree that veganism is a product that needs to be sold. It is a lifestyle choice. If sold as a product, the person is likely to get bored with that 'product' and reject it ultimately. It is in my opinion better to convert 1 person to veganism for life than 20 for a year

 

I also think that the way that peta latches onto celebrities is bollocks. Celebrities are not known to be the most scrupulous of individuals, and I think that glorification of their status is wrong. It isn't in my opinion in keeping with veganism, as celebrity culture encourages inequality, and a status driven culture, where your worth is judged on how famous you are.

 

Jonathan

[PETAbodybuilder]

For all those that do not like our tactics, or think that they are ineffective.. Instead of just saying that they are "stupid" tell us how you think we could improve, or what you think would be effective. From being an active participant in many PETA events, I can say for sure that they are effective, and I have seen many people choose a life of compassion becasuse of them. Selling the idea, is just an example of putting the seed in someones head. I am not saying that you should try and sell someone, nor that we are in the business of "selling" veganism, but that if we do not actively get the message out to others, they how will they know? We are always open to suggestions and ideas, and to not mind the criticism. I just challenge everyone who does not like it, to offer up a reason why- and to give an alternative. We do take these things into considerations, and if you dont want to voice yourself on the board, I have offered up my contact information in the thread.

 

Thanks again for all that each of you do for the animals.

 

Mike B.

Vegan Campaign Coordinator

PETA

[willpeavy]

PETA isn't stupid. They are just some people trying to do the best that they can. Whether you like celebrities or not, there are a lot of people who are influenced by them and are introduced to ideas via their favorite celebrity. .... Me and several others on vbb.com have made our gripes about PETA (aka Guiliani incident) known in this thread but Mike B has responded in a positive and patient way, so you gotta respect that.

[blazin6543]

heres are some details why people are against peta:

 

http://www.peta-sucks.com/thehiddenagenda.htm