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Yeahh. Makes sense to me matey I've also been going to failure on every exercise which is something you posted a while back, it's bloody killer!

 

I had to risk assess an 8 mile walk yesterday... It started at sea level and went to one of the highest points on the island, needless to say my legs hated that and I'm totally fried this morning,

Thought I would reschedule squats and deads and start off the training with chest and triceps!

 

I only dip 2 sets (after a very light warmup) for each exercise and each set was to complete failure! Wowsers it was tough haha

 

Weight is per dumbbell and reps per arm

Dumbbell bench press

25Kg x 18 reps! Fuuuuck ahha

25Kg x 11 reps

 

Barbell upright row (for shoulders)

37.5Kg x 15 reps

37.5Kg x 11 reps

 

Dumbbell incline bench press

17.5Kg x 20 reps!!

17.5Kg x 14 reps

 

Incline flys

17.5Kg x 9 reps

17.5Kg x 8 reps

 

Tricep kickbacks

15Kg x 15 reps

15Kg x 15 reps

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Hey Mate,

 

Here's a couple of statement's from two of the greatest BB's in history that might be of interest:)

 

"i never saw the point of performing several sets for X number of reps with the same weight? Why not just increase the weight and perform one set to all out failure? Even if you rested for 5-10 minutes, do you think you could perform another set with the same level of intensity?? Moreover, do you really need to perform that second set since you've already sufficiently stimulated the body?"

Dorian Yates

 

"a second set to failure isn't just a waste of time, its counterproductive".

Mike Mentzer

 

It made sense to me then, and still does today:)

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Hey Mate,

 

Here's a couple of statement's from two of the greatest BB's in history that might be of interest:)

 

"i never saw the point of performing several sets for X number of reps with the same weight? Why not just increase the weight and perform one set to all out failure? Even if you rested for 5-10 minutes, do you think you could perform another set with the same level of intensity?? Moreover, do you really need to perform that second set since you've already sufficiently stimulated the body?"

Dorian Yates

 

"a second set to failure isn't just a waste of time, its counterproductive".

Mike Mentzer

 

It made sense to me then, and still does today:)

 

Rob the first quote has me a little stumped... Is he suggesting that you do one set, and increase the weight with each rep? Seems like that would not only take more time, but would also lead to too much down time, or, in other words, not enough intensity. Maybe?

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Interesting, Chris, I think rob means increase the weight you would normally use from the start, not increase the weight during the set :P but that would sure be it wresting with my spinlock dumbbells haha

 

So rob, do you do a couple of warm up sets first and them a heavier all put failure set?

And in terms of exercises, would it be counterproductive to do say, bench press followed by incline bench and flys?

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Hey Mate,

 

Here's a couple of statement's from two of the greatest BB's in history that might be of interest:)

 

"i never saw the point of performing several sets for X number of reps with the same weight? Why not just increase the weight and perform one set to all out failure? Even if you rested for 5-10 minutes, do you think you could perform another set with the same level of intensity?? Moreover, do you really need to perform that second set since you've already sufficiently stimulated the body?"

Dorian Yates

 

"a second set to failure isn't just a waste of time, its counterproductive".

Mike Mentzer

 

It made sense to me then, and still does today:)

 

Rob the first quote has me a little stumped... Is he suggesting that you do one set, and increase the weight with each rep? Seems like that would not only take more time, but would also lead to too much down time, or, in other words, not enough intensity. Maybe?

 

Hi Mate,

 

He made this statement in a seminar i attended in 98, an audience member asked him about vince gironda's 8X8 routine and the GVT method of 10 sets of 10 reps with the same weight. Dorian responded as mentioned. Basically what he was saying was, its much more time efficient and productive to increase the resistance and preform just one all out set to failure per movement (instead of preforming all those sets/reps with the same weight).

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Interesting, Chris, I think rob means increase the weight you would normally use from the start, not increase the weight during the set :P but that would sure be it wresting with my spinlock dumbbells haha

 

So rob, do you do a couple of warm up sets first and them a heavier all put failure set?

And in terms of exercises, would it be counterproductive to do say, bench press followed by incline bench and flys?

 

 

Hey Ross,

 

Yes mate, perform one-two warm ups sets first, i personally recommend performing lowish rep warm-up sets (4-6) with moderate to moderately heavy resistance. Keep in mind, if for example you preform 8 reps to failure on a given movement, the first 7 reps are really a warm-up also.

 

Your last question is an excellent one, YES, imo it is counterproductive, and this is were i depart from DY's recommendations, perhaps a genetic freak that and/or uses steroid's can handle the kind of volume and frequency with a high level of intensity, but most natural and genetically average individuals can not.

 

If you've ever seen what Mike Mentzer recommended back in the early 80s, its a far cry from what he was recommending in the mid to late 90s, his later workout recommendations had far less volume and frequency, this is because when he became a trainer in the early 90s he started working with people he'd never worked with before, ie natural and genetically average individuals, he quickly realized he had to "severally" reduce their volume and frequency before they made any real meaningful progress (and by real meaningful progress, i mean progression in leaps and bounds).

 

He found that training just once every 4-7 days with just 3-5 working sets per workout "worked like magic" for the average trainee. This is were a lot of critics of Mikes get it wrong, they say "oh oh, Mike never trained that way himself", and to them i response, "of course he didn't, he was a genetic freak that used steroids lol".

 

To perform one and at very most two movements per bodypart is more than sufficient for the average natural athlete. This is what I've witnessed in myself and anyone i ever trained using HIT.

 

Hope this helps

Rob

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My mistake. Sometimes I'm too literal for my own good. This is interesting stuff, the training one set of heavy weight, and that's all. It would require quite a departure from what I've grown accustomed to for sure.

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Well I tried one set to failure on most of my exercises today but not all, I've gotta say it's a total killer but I do miss the volume.. Most of why I train is because I enjoy it but hey il see how it goes

Also going to try out longer rests, not the full 4-7 days more like 3-4 rest days ahha (for now)

 

Anyways, I kicked ass today!

 

Deadlifts

60Kg x 10 reps

115Kg x 5 reps

115Kg x 5 reps

115Kg x 5 reps

The last set was slow as hell just to feel it more!

 

Pull ups to failure

X 7 reps! Not bad at all!

 

Aussie pull ups

X wait for it.... 30 reps!! Fuck yeah! Had to stop at 23 for a couple of seconds though baha!

Saying this... I'm not sure I'm doing them properly, my sink is in the way of the chair I put my feet on so I'm not totally flat/parallel.. Bah hard to explain without hand gestures.

 

Dumbbell rows

27.5Kg x 8 reps

27.5Kg x 8 reps

 

Shrugs to failure

40Kg x 25 reps, wanted more than this though

 

Bicep barbell curls to failure

20Kg x 20 reps! PB I think, but who cares, curls are for girls baha

 

I realllly wanna wreck some ales tonight but I'm holding off...

Going to see a punk rock band called The Swellers on Tuesday so il get totally hammered there! Always nice to boat over to the city to watch live music

Will catch up with everyone shortly! Peace out!

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Nice work mate. I hear you on training for the sake of training because you enjoy it, as I am the same way. Haha you sound just like me making advance plans to get hammered! Punk show sounds fun. I remember one I went to that was underneath this storefront in what would be a basement, but there was no floor, just a mound of dirt. There was a naked guy there as well. Hahaha. Sounds like fun though. I got talked into trying this beer last night made with something called bog myrtle, which was just ok. I never drink the night before training (well... Haha) so I hope I didn't shoot myself in the foot!

 

Does your lady go to the shows with you? Can she hang?

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Baha that sounds fuckng awesome to me man!

I went to a show once where the security guards stage dived.... Here's proof

Haha you can see my stupid drunk ass stage diving at 1:32 and 2:48

I think at one point my buddy backflips into the crowd too lol!

Nah the mrs doesn't come to small shows just bigger stadium ones (which suck :P)

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@ Ross and Chris

 

I hear ya guys on the low volume/frequency training, i love to train too, and when i first discovered HIT, i was reluctant to follow the recommendations of its proponents, despite their achievements. It wasn't until i spoke with Mike himself did i began to believe, moreover he helped me developed a much more of a relaxed understanding of it all.

Mikes recommendation of training only once every 4-7 days (and in some cases as little as once every 10 days) wasn't something he plucked out of thin air, his recommendation was based on how his clients responded (thousands of them), one client in particular, David Paul (Mikes favorite client of all) an actor from the 80s/bodybuilder had been training 6 days a week, for up till 2 hours a day for several years with zero improvements made (because he enjoyed working out). Mikes first recommendation to him was to take a 3 week layoff, on his return to the gym, in just one month with Mike, he increased his squat by 185lbs and gained 6lbs of muscle!! Not bad for an advanced athlete who had already been training for 20+ years:)

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@ Ross and Chris

 

I hear ya guys on the low volume/frequency training, i love to train too, and when i first discovered HIT, i was reluctant to follow the recommendations of its proponents, despite their achievements. It wasn't until i spoke with Mike himself did i began to believe, using the most objective language i ever heard, he helped me develop a much more of a relaxed understanding of it all.

He told me about one client in particular, David Paul (Mikes favorite client) an actor from the 80s/bodybuilder had been training 6 days a week, for up till 2 hours a day for several years with zero improvements made (because he enjoyed working out). Mikes first recommendation to him was to take a 3 week layoff, on his return to the gym, in just one month with Mike, he increased his squat by 185lbs and gained 6lbs of muscle!! Not bad for an advanced athlete who had already been training for 20+ years:)

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@ Rob - So, if the point is to accomplish sufficient stimulation, would it matter that much if I do one set of heavyweight/low rep, or one set of low weight/high rep, provided that each are to failure? Is there any significant benefit of one form over the other?

 

What about foregoing any warm up sets, and instead doing some overall cardio (like jumping jacks) prior to lifting? Wouldn't that allow for greater resistance, or higher reps, on the actual working set?

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@ Rob - So, if the point is to accomplish sufficient stimulation, would it matter that much if I do one set of heavyweight/low rep, or one set of low weight/high rep, provided that each are to failure? Is there any significant benefit of one form over the other?

 

What about foregoing any warm up sets, and instead doing some overall cardio (like jumping jacks) prior to lifting? Wouldn't that allow for greater resistance, or higher reps, on the actual working set?

 

 

Not at all Chris, in fact there's been well conducted research in recent years to show one can do just as well using high reps, at the other end many do well with low reps and heavy weights. I wouldn't go super high reps, as you want to stay within an anaerobic pathway.

 

I wouldn't recommend foregoing the warm-up sets for a treadmill, bike, jumping jacks etc, reason being, you also want to warm-up nero-muscularly for the bigger more intense training to come, you want to "simmer to the boil".

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@ Rob - Cool. So, you're basically saying that once I reach failure, or at least close enough to not injure myself (by dropping the bar), there's literally no point in doing a second set - even if I am able to do so. In fact, doing so is likely counterproductive?

 

Also, since one would only be training a couple body parts per session, what's the harm in training more than 2-3 times per week?

 

For example, some of the workouts I've read of Mentzer describe as follows:

 

1. Rear Delt & Biceps

Rest 4 days

2. Quads & Hamstrings

Rest 4 days

3. Chest & Lats

Rest 4 days

etc....

 

If you are isolating those parts, why not train 3-4 times per week, instead of 1-2?

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@ Rob - Cool. So, you're basically saying that once I reach failure, or at least close enough to not injure myself (by dropping the bar), there's literally no point in doing a second set - even if I am able to do so. In fact, doing so is likely counterproductive?

 

Also, since one would only be training a couple body parts per session, what's the harm in training more than 2-3 times per week?

 

For example, some of the workouts I've read of Mentzer describe as follows:

 

1. Rear Delt & Biceps

Rest 4 days

2. Quads & Hamstrings

Rest 4 days

3. Chest & Lats

Rest 4 days

etc....

 

If you are isolating those parts, why not train 3-4 times per week, instead of 1-2?

 

Precisely mate, you've simulated the body sufficiently, a second set is unnecessary and for most..too much.

 

That's a very good question - Intense physical stress effects the entire physical system, there is systemic fatigue, not just localized, localized recovery actually happens pretty fast, however systemic recovery takes considerable longer. Mike found 4-7 days (depending on the individuals recovery ability and level) to be the precise amount required.

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That's a very good question - Intense physical stress effects the entire physical system, there is systemic fatigue, not just localized, localized recovery actually happens pretty fast, however systemic recovery takes considerable longer. Mike found 4-7 days (depending on the individuals recovery ability and level) to be the precise amount required.

Here's a question for you Rob ~ do you think the same should be applied to running

 

I just did a 50km race at the weekend, thought I went ok (4hr45 and 5th place). My performances on lower mileage weeks/less training seems to be reduced in the sense that I generally run slower and my body feels more tired. Once I pick my running up to around the 50-80km a week over 4-6 days I noticeably run better. I have no problems or issues with recovery and definitely don't feel like I need the extra rest days just for the sake of resting. So, I'm inclined to feel like I'd rather keep the weekly mileage on the slightly higher side (even though each session has a specific purpose and I'm not just logging 'junk miles' for the sake of running) rather than maybe training harder but less.

 

Interested in your thoughts, and realise that running a) might be a curveball b) might not be applicable to the theories of HIT c) you have no idea because you have never been asked before

 

 

PS: Sorry to crash your thread Ross, and sorry about the shit gig you just went to lol.

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That's a very good question - Intense physical stress effects the entire physical system, there is systemic fatigue, not just localized, localized recovery actually happens pretty fast, however systemic recovery takes considerable longer. Mike found 4-7 days (depending on the individuals recovery ability and level) to be the precise amount required.

Here's a question for you Rob ~ do you think the same should be applied to running

 

I just did a 50km race at the weekend, thought I went ok (4hr45 and 5th place). My performances on lower mileage weeks/less training seems to be reduced in the sense that I generally run slower and my body feels more tired. Once I pick my running up to around the 50-80km a week over 4-6 days I noticeably run better. I have no problems or issues with recovery and definitely don't feel like I need the extra rest days just for the sake of resting. So, I'm inclined to feel like I'd rather keep the weekly mileage on the slightly higher side (even though each session has a specific purpose and I'm not just logging 'junk miles' for the sake of running) rather than maybe training harder but less.

 

Interested in your thoughts, and realise that running a) might be a curveball b) might not be applicable to the theories of HIT c) you have no idea because you have never been asked before

 

 

PS: Sorry to crash your thread Ross, and sorry about the shit gig you just went to lol.

 

 

Hey mate,

 

I'm sure you've heard of a Principle in exercise physiology referred to as S.A.I.D (Specific adaptation of imposed demands), your training at the moment with a specific goal to improve upon your existing endurance levels, therefore in your case, it does stand to reason that when you train more (aerobically), you make better progress and preform at a higher level.

That being said, HIT training (when done with the rush factor), has shown to be very effective for improving cardio function, one study that springs to mind is the Arthur Jones West Point Military Academy study in 1975, were subjects (who were already very fit) greatly improved the 2 mile running times after 6 weeks of Nautilus only training.

 

My apologies for crashing your thread also Ross:)

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You god dam thread hijackers! Haha not at all, I'm enjoying the conversation, really interesting stuff rob think il try my best to stick with it for a while, had a long chat about it with a buddy of mine yesterday that's looking into that style of training

 

I'm still resting atm, it's nice to not wake up with DOMS... But I do miss the bar! Il think about probably training after work today or Saturday morning first thing.

 

And yeah Jim the gig sucked, everyone there was lame and boring so dullll

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Okay fine.... I'm on the hiit band wagon hahaha, the only difference is that I can't quite go to failure with squats as I have no spotter and it's goddam dangerous.. So that'll stick to 8-10 reps for a few sets.

 

I'm still in the process of sorting out what exercises to do when, but I'm pretty set on 2 different workouts.

Workout 1: deadlift, rows, pull ups, ab crunches, shrugs, bicep curls.

Workout 2: squat, calf raises, DB bench, flys, tricep kickbacks, upright rows.

 

I'm still looking up and learning about hiit but after reading a bit of mike mentzer and watching a couple of videos that rob posted I'm liking the idea and am becoming convinced.

 

Will except any constructive criticism guys

 

Soooo it's been 7 days since I last trained, here goes

 

Squats

65Kg x 10 reps

65Kg x 10 reps

65Kg x 10 reps

 

Calf raises to failure, literally lost count

 

Dumbbell bench to failure- 27.5Kg x 15 reps

 

Dumbbell flys to failure- 20Kg x 14 reps (I think)

I tried not to count as it put me off

 

Upright rows with 15Kg weight plate

About 20ish reps each arm, total killer (good shout rob)

 

Tricep kickbacks to failure- 12.5Kg x about 25 reps ish, lost count.

 

I loved this, I'm gonna take 4-5 rest days now

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