compassionategirl Posted April 15, 2006 Author Share Posted April 15, 2006 (edited) see blue okay i think im done here. No sense in debating with somebody who isnt going to even acknowledge the shortcomings of their arguments. Ouch. That was kind of a low blow. Sorry, but its true. Every single person hear advocating for a welfarist approach to animal rights has yet to acknowledge the limits of that approach, and the minor detail that after 50 years of welfarist type reforms, we have made very little progress in animal rights. And that is a fact. Therefore, I find it pointless to debate with people that refuse to consider the limits of what they are saying. I believe the term is tunnel - vision. I would also venture to guess you havent been an actual activist for very long, or you would understand the weakness of your arguments and acknowledge the difficulty of the welfare vs. rights conundrum I am NOT one of those "radical" vegans. I know a few vegans who are like that and all it does it turn people further away from veganism.... or even vegetarianism. The best approach is to workwith them, not against them. I agree with what willpeavy said. Most people can only make small changes at a time. Any change (no matter how big or how small) is a step in the right direction. I have no idea what your definition iof "radical" vegan is, but it sounds like you are saying that vegans who advocate nothing short of veganism, no matter how "gently", are radical vegans. I couldnt disagree more if that is indeed your definition of a "radical" vegan. The "radical" vegans (like say Francione, Lee Hall, etc. ) wouldnt consider me "radical" at all. Again, you say that people can make only small changes at a time, but you refuse to acknowledge the potential drawbacks of encouraging free range, not to mention the B** S*** that free range often really is. Few corporations that claim to produce free range eggs actually take "free range" seriously. Sometimes I feel like veganism is taken out of context and that the true goal of veganism is often lost. It seems it has turned almost into a war with the non-vegs against the vegs. Animal/enviromental/health reasons.... these are the goals. NOT to turn everyone we can into vegans just to increase the number of vegans out there. The true goal of ethical veganism is to end the commodification of animals. No, we dont turn people vegan "just for the sake of inreasing the number of vegans." Increasing the number of vegans, and thereby decreasing the number of non-vegans, reduces the demand for animal produce. No demand, no supply. No supply = a more sustainable agriculture, healthier planet, better human health, and no animal commodification. Force doesn't work... gentle persuasion, positive example, open guidance, and compassionate education is what DOES work. Babysteps. this is why I stopped debating this with you. Again, what are you going on about here? Who said anything about force (and by the way, some people DO respond to aggresive activism that gets to the point - but that is another thread). You speak of "Gentle persuasion, open guidance, and compassionate education." Again, who said anything to the contrary? Persuade people to go vegan gently, (not to go free range gently), openly guide them to go vegan, compassionately educate them about the reality of animal commodification and the illusion of free range. Gentle persuasion and compassionate education does NOT have to equal encouraging the illusion of free range! YOu may want to read of Lee Hall's article on free - range. You can read it here: http://friendsofanimals.org/programs/vegetarianism/sustainable-tall-tales.php I'm with Meggie and willpeavy on this one. Dont take any of the above personally Shelby, I still think you rock Edited April 15, 2006 by compassionategirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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