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Satellite Imagery of Iran's Nuclear Sites...


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My signature? Yes. It's reported that Hitler got many of his ideas from the Ottoman Empire. He even referred to the Armenians when plotting his annihilation of "undesirables." He said something like, "Who, after all, remembers the Armenians?" Referring to how nobody gave/gives a damn and won't again.

 

You know, it's truly shameful. We're not even taught this in school as part of history; so I don't blame people for not knowing.

The most shameful part is that the denial and lack of acknowledgement continues to this day. Can you imagine the same of the holocaust? I can't. But for some reason, it's okay for Armenians. The U.S. also does not recognize the genocide officially, though it does in unofficial ways. If I'm not mistaken, the only President who has ever verbally acknowledged it was President Bush I. Only good thing he ever did.

 

I didn't learn about it in school; my father taught me when I was a child. I later lived in a community with a large Armenian population. I commemorate it every year with the Los Angeles Armenian community out of respect. There are various things going on in the city on that day.

 

Turkey has always denied the genocide and still does. With no incentive from anyone (we have an "interest" in not upsetting our good buddies) to acknowledge it, they will continue to deny it. And obviously, there will be no justice for the dead, for the families, or for the Armenian People. Reparations are warranted just as other nations have had to implement them.

 

sorry to go on , but this is a ing long, long time injustice and it should not continue -- the hypocrisy of it all is mind boggling.

 

Here is more information for anyone who is interested in encouraging the U.S. to recognize the genocide, (it doesn't take much time to let your voice be heard) as well as a lot of information: http://www.anca.org/anca_home.php

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My signature? Yes. It's reported that Hitler got many of his ideas from the Ottoman Empire. He even referred to the Armenians when plotting his annihilation of "undesirables." He said something like, "Who, after all, remembers the Armenians?" Referring to how nobody gave/gives a damn and won't again.

 

You know, it's truly shameful. We're not even taught this in school as part of history; so I don't blame people for not knowing.

The most shameful part is that the denial and lack of acknowledgement continues to this day. Can you imagine the same of the holocaust? I can't. But for some reason, it's okay for Armenians. The U.S. also does not recognize the genocide officially, though it does in unofficial ways. If I'm not mistaken, the only President who has ever verbally acknowledged it was President Bush I. Only good thing he ever did.

 

I didn't learn about it in school; my father taught me when I was a child. I later lived in a community with a large Armenian population. I commemorate it every year with the Los Angeles Armenian community out of respect. There are various things going on in the city on that day.

 

Turkey has always denied the genocide and still does. With no incentive from anyone (we have an "interest" in not upsetting our good buddies) to acknowledge it, they will continue to deny it. And obviously, there will be no justice for the dead, for the families, or for the Armenian People. Reparations are warranted just as other nations have had to implement them.

 

sorry to go on , but this is a ing long, long time injustice and it should not continue -- the hypocrisy of it all is mind boggling.

 

Here is more information for anyone who is interested in encouraging the U.S. to recognize the genocide, (it doesn't take much time to let your voice be heard) as well as a lot of information: http://www.anca.org/anca_home.php

 

Why would the US recognise the Armenian genocide when it doesn't even recognise the genocide it has committed itself?

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Here are the images using overlays to show the changes from a few years ago.

 

There is also a link to the ISIS pdf report for reference.

 

I'm presuming Raven that you don't think it's a good idea for Iran to have nuclear weapons? Maybe not, but:

 

The US has more nuclear weapons than anyone. The US is the only country to have used nuclear weapons - maybe justifiably, there is dispute over whether or not the Japanese would have surrended anyhow.

 

Why shouldn't Iran have a nuclear weapon when surrounded by countries that do - Israel, India, Pakistan?

 

The words double and standards come to mind.

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Thanks Raven, I wasn't aware of the Armenian genocide, the website is very interesting.

 

Tarz wrote:

 

Why shouldn't Iran have a nuclear weapon when surrounded by countries that do - Israel, India, Pakistan?

 

Maybe in "theory" they should be allowed to have one, however, I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, they made it clear that they would use it, after all their president only said that Israel should be wiped out off the map.

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Thanks Raven, I wasn't aware of the Armenian genocide, the website is very interesting.

 

Tarz wrote:

 

Why shouldn't Iran have a nuclear weapon when surrounded by countries that do - Israel, India, Pakistan?

 

Maybe in "theory" they should be allowed to have one, however, I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, they made it clear that they would use it, after all their president only said that Israel should be wiped out off the map.

 

I know they said that Cristian, and that is indeed disturbing, but would they really use nukes on Israel bearing on mind the massive retailation from Israel and the US? I'm not sure how long Iranian presidents stay in office for, but there's a good chance he won't be in power by the time Iran has actually successfully manufactured a nuclear weapon.

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I don't want Iran or anyone else to have nuclear weapons. But think about it, if you were a country that wanted to develop a nuclear weapon to wipe another country off the face of the planet, would you go around telling everyone? Would you announce it in every speech? If it were me, I'd create it with as much secrecy as possible, and if asked about it, I'd "deny everything" (a lil' Cirlce Jerks reference 4 ya). I think it's all bluster so that they can get a chip in the game, a seat at the big table.

 

The Armenian genocide link was interesting. What an awful episode in history. And so little is taught about it.

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I don't want Iran or anyone else to have nuclear weapons. But think about it, if you were a country that wanted to develop a nuclear weapon to wipe another country off the face of the planet, would you go around telling everyone? Would you announce it in every speech? If it were me, I'd create it with as much secrecy as possible, and if asked about it, I'd "deny everything" (a lil' Cirlce Jerks reference 4 ya). I think it's all bluster so that they can get a chip in the game, a seat at the big table.

 

I agree - it's just playing to the masses and to divert domestic attention away from problems the Iranian regime has.

 

Yes, the Iranians also want respect. The Persian Empire was once very powerful indeed.

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Tarz wrote:

I know they said that Cristian, and that is indeed disturbing, but would they really use nukes on Israel bearing on mind the massive retailation from Israel and the US? I'm not sure how long Iranian presidents stay in office for, but there's a good chance he won't be in power by the time Iran has actually successfully manufactured a nuclear weapon.

 

Who knows if they're crazy enough to use them one day. I think the problem is not only the Iranian president, rather his political party. I don't believe any country should have nukes, it doesn't make sense! You hear head of states talking about world peace and then, well we have nukes...just in case! I'm not even sure I believe Iran is working towards having nukes as at times it seems the "good" are just trying to make them look even worst. I guess I'm just pessimistic, but I won't be surprised if there'll be a war over there in the next 5-10 years, after all Iran has Iraq on one side and Afghanistan on the other.

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Howdy. I think this is a very interesting topic for discussion. It's a little different when a Western democracy has nukes (Israel) as opposed to an extremist theocracy which publicly supports terrorist groups (Iran). Also, due to their beliefs about the afterlife, certain muslim clerics seem to think that nuking israel would be a worthwhile tradeoff. They won't be scared off by our reprisals.

 

TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS) One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".

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Behind every INITIATIVE there is a MOTIVE.

 

What is the motive behind any nation wanting nuclear weapons?

 

To annhilate other countries ? WRONG. If everything is annhilated there is nothing to gain.

 

To create a DETERRENT to ensure other countries do not attack it in a large form and create a FEAR FACTOR based on.. I have it TOO.. i.e. IMMENSE FIRE POWER.

 

Why is it that N Korea despite having Nuclear Weapons was not invaded by the US troops? Because you cant JUST invade a country with WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. This is why the cold war was sustained for so long.

 

Ofcourse, it is easier to go to a country that DOES NOT HAVE WMDs ...claiming that they do.

 

Its such simple logic.

 

If the world is a STREET where every country is a thug, then you dont attack the ones who are likely to hurt you.. but you attack and eliminate the ones who you know will not be able to fight back, capture them and their possessions.

 

Why cant you arm twist NK, India, China, Pakistan etc. Because, they care a damn, because they know they have DETERRENTS. i.e. they are not going to take INTERFERENCE into their INTERNAL activities.

 

This is an age old mechanism used by everyone from Alexander to Genghis Khan to the Colonial rulers (Brits, French, Portugesi.e, Spanish).

 

All this talk about spreading democracy to Iraq...

 

Democracy does not come from the outside. It comes from inside the people. Time and again.. people who live inside nations have woken up and made it happen.

 

Gandhi drove out the british with NON VIOLENCE. Thats how India got democracy. Where was the US of A when the British were ruling India as a colony. Where did the values of democracy disappear?

 

Its all about SELF INTEREST. As agent smith said "Human beings are a VIRUS, they exhaust resources.. spread and consume ..exhaust".

 

Remember and dont forget, the only country to have ever used N Weapons on MASS CIVILIAN POPULATION was the United States.

 

We see movies of Germany, Nazis and anti-semitism & Holocaust during WWII. No one portrays what effect 2 nuclear bombs had on Japan.

 

PS: In some fashion our vegan/ vegetarian beliefs are somehow in the interest of our SELF VALIDATION in "being better" humans than non vegs. He he.. I am sure to get some responses to this.

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Howdy. I think this is a very interesting topic for discussion. It's a little different when a Western democracy has nukes (Israel) as opposed to an extremist theocracy which publicly supports terrorist groups (Iran). Also, due to their beliefs about the afterlife, certain muslim clerics seem to think that nuking israel would be a worthwhile tradeoff. They won't be scared off by our reprisals.

 

TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS) One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".

 

Why would they want to nuke israel in the first place?

 

Why would Osama Bin Laden want to attack america?

 

No one in the world has time to come and look into your house. But, if someone comes and MEDDLES in your matters, no matter how JUSTIFIED they are your reaction is not going to be positive towards them.

 

Advocating democracy to them UPFRONT is equivalent to talking to a cowboy about veganism or gifting a person who cant read a book.

 

Osmosis. That is the way.

 

Dubai, UAE, Morocco & Bahrain are excellent examples of change in the mid east. It has to happen and it will happen internally.. slowly and steadily.

 

India is not what it used to be 50 years ago, neither is China.

 

Cultures will change.. in their own time.. as generations come and go. CHANGE IS INEVITABLE. YOU CAN NOT FORCE IT. IT TAKES ITS OWN COURSE.

 

As the Zen master says.. IMPERMANENCE. Nothing is permanent.

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We see movies of Germany, Nazis and anti-semitism & Holocaust during WWII. No one portrays what effect 2 nuclear bombs had on Japan.

 

I very much agree with what you say crashnburn apart from the above quote. When thinking about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it is easy to forget ( maybe less so for Americans ) that Japan was the aggressor in the Pacific. Whilst I sympathise with the innocent victims of the atomic bombs, maybe many thousands, possibly millions, of lives were saved by the prevention of an attack on the Japanese mainland - Allied troops, Japanese civilians, Allied POW's who would have been executed ( many of whom had already dug their own graves after being informed they were digging 'swimming pools'). If the war had continued many more lives would have been lost than if the bombs were not used. There is deep controversy whether or not Japan was going to surrender anyhow - if the bombs were necessary - and were they really used as a marker in the coming Cold War and with an eye on the Soviets?

 

The Japanese were absolutely ruthless, brutal and apart from the odd exception totally without mercy in their conquest of the Far East - The Rape of Nanking, The Bataan Death March, The Thai-Burma Railway etc etc.

 

What if the Japanese had atomic weapons? -

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_atomic_program

http://fas.org/nuke/guide/japan/nuke/

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Gulf/4963/jnuke.html

http://vikingphoenix.com/public/JapanIncorporated/1895-1945/japan_abombs.htm

 

Yes there has been ( usually inaccurate ) war movies about the fate of Allied POWS/civilians in Japanese hands. I'm not aware either of any mainstream movies about the effect of a barbaric Japanese occupation on the populations of China, Korea, Malaya, Siam, Burma, The Phillipines, Singapore etc etc.

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PS: In some fashion our vegan/ vegetarian beliefs are somehow in the interest of our SELF VALIDATION in "being better" humans than non vegs. He he.. I am sure to get some responses to this.

You asked for a response - here it is (what are your other 2 wishes ? (jk)) I do not agree with this statement as imho being vegan is not a form of self validation or being better than anyone else -- it is about awakening to the fact that humans should not use, abuse and kill any species for whatever reason and realizing you have to stop being a part of and contributing to this cycle.

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imho being vegan is not a form of self validation or being better than anyone else -- it is about awakening to the fact that humans should not use, abuse and kill any species for whatever reason and realizing you have to stop being a part of and contributing to this cycle.

 

Bingo It has nothing to do with being better than anyone else - it has to do with being a better ME.

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someone asked why Iran would want to nuke Israel in the 1st place-- well, I think it's a dumb idea, too, but I wasn't a big fan of 9/11, either. Islamists don't like a Jewis state, nor are they fans of western democracy. I don't think it's about Western aggression (although the current Iraq war is an utter debacle and certainly hasn't helped our credibility in the world). I agree with the previous contention that America's use of atomic bombs actually saved lives.

 

But, sadly, the record suggests that restraint would not have worked. The Japanese military ferociously resisted surrender even after two atomic bombings on major cities, even after Soviet entry into the war, even when it expected another atomic bomb — on Tokyo.

 

I grabbed that from CNN. Anyway, strong debate. I did not expect to find this type of argument on this site and I'm happy to see it.

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We see movies of Germany, Nazis and anti-semitism & Holocaust during WWII. No one portrays what effect 2 nuclear bombs had on Japan.

 

I very much agree with what you say crashnburn apart from the above quote. When thinking about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it is easy to forget ( maybe less so for Americans ) that Japan was the aggressor in the Pacific. Whilst I sympathise with the innocent victims of the atomic bombs, maybe many thousands, possibly millions, of lives were saved by the prevention of an attack on the Japanese mainland - Allied troops, Japanese civilians, Allied POW's who would have been executed ( many of whom had already dug their own graves after being informed they were digging 'swimming pools'). If the war had continued many more lives would have been lost than if the bombs were not used. There is deep controversy whether or not Japan was going to surrender anyhow - if the bombs were necessary - and were they really used as a marker in the coming Cold War and with an eye on the Soviets?

 

The Japanese were absolutely ruthless, brutal and apart from the odd exception totally without mercy in their conquest of the Far East - The Rape of Nanking, The Bataan Death March, The Thai-Burma Railway etc etc.

 

What if the Japanese had atomic weapons? -

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_atomic_program

http://fas.org/nuke/guide/japan/nuke/

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Gulf/4963/jnuke.html

http://vikingphoenix.com/public/JapanIncorporated/1895-1945/japan_abombs.htm

 

Yes there has been ( usually inaccurate ) war movies about the fate of Allied POWS/civilians in Japanese hands. I'm not aware either of any mainstream movies about the effect of a barbaric Japanese occupation on the populations of China, Korea, Malaya, Siam, Burma, The Phillipines, Singapore etc etc.

 

Everyone is ruthless. Japan, US, Everyone.. But mass murder is not justified under any circumstances. I wont even get into the debate of them having atomic potential back then. Maybe they did ..

 

The example was not to point out Japan but the US ability to move forward on nuclear bombs.

 

PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH. If I am not vegetarian in practice I cant preach it to someone else. DO AS I SAY.. DONT DO AS I DO.. is the motto everyone has..

 

Either ways.. we are pointlessly self justifying species.

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