Liberals with Guns

[loveliberate]

http://www.liberalswithguns.com

[Jay]

Hey didn't some people on a very liberal forum give you a hard time about being progun?

 

I'm to the left of Debs and have no problem with guns. None whatsoever.

 

Sometimes leftists/liberals can be just as depressing as right wingers in how cookie cutterish they are though.

[CollegeB]

What do liberals need with guns, arent they for the government protecting them?

[loveliberate]

Oh jeez Jay, why did you have to remind me of that.... One of these days, I'll be bored enough to go back to VF and pick up that discussion again.

 

CollegeB,

That's one of the reasons I dont like to be labeled as a "leftist" or

"liberal" even though most people ould probably label me as such. I'd rather talk to people and discuss issues with them. People are complex and defy easy/simple labels.

 

Short answer to your question is that it depends on what you/they mean by "liberal" and/or which "liberal" we're talking about. It's like saying that all white Texans are racists who eat meat with every meal - as a stereotype there's a lot of truth to it but it sure isnt true of all ya'll!

[endcruelty]

for the most part im left... but i'd still get a gun to cap any1 in the face that gonna try starting shit with me

[CollegeB]

yeah love i was just messin with you. Any supporter of guns is fine by me. Im not real fond of liberal/conservative left/right. Alex Jones points out those are just terms used to divide us, they actually dont mean much since they do change over time.

[loveliberate]

Chill out Commie - yr harshing my mellow!

 

I know that you're probably joking but just so it's said:

Better to have your gun with you and be well trained in its defensive use before someone messes with you. Once that's taken care of it's better to avoid, de-escalate or escape a situation rather than use force. In other words - try to talk, walk or run your way out of a fight if you can but be prepared if that doesn't work.

 

Ps. In case it's not clear, I wrote this in response to what endcruaelty wrote above.

Edited June 3, 2006 by loveliberate

[MontanaVegan]

About an hour ago the sheriff called me.

A friend applied for a concealed weapons permit.

He used me as a reference.

I don't own a gun and don't have a problem with him carrying one.

[loveliberate]

About an hour ago the sheriff called me. A friend applied for a concealed weapons permit. He used me as a reference. I don't own a gun and don't have a problem with him carrying one.

 

That's the spirit! It's all about freedom and choice. Too bad that people have to get permits for the government to recognize their rights though... I hope that your friend gave you a heads up that he'd used you as a reference for the permit!

[loveliberate]

yeah love i was just messin with you. Any supporter of guns is fine by me. Im not real fond of liberal/conservative left/right. Alex Jones points out those are just terms used to divide us, they actually dont mean much since they do change over time.

 

Wow - he called me love! Oh wait, that's just short for my forum name Alex Jones! He's a funny guy! I remember watching him late at night on public access in Austin. He gave the powers that be a tough time whenever they abused peoples rights. Good for him! Some of his theories seemed a bit too... let's say unsubstantiated for me though.

[MontanaVegan]

That's the spirit! It's all about freedom and choice. Too bad that people have to get permits for the government to recognize their rights though... I hope that your friend gave you a heads up that he'd used you as a reference for the permit!

I don't have a problem with any law abiding citizen owning a gun.

I don't even care if he/she owns an assault rifle.

Now a violent criminal even in possession of a gun is another story.

 

He didn't give me a heads up about it.

I knew that he applied for the permit, just not that I was a reference.

I don't think that carrying a concealed weapon is a right though.

[loveliberate]

I don't have a problem with any law abiding citizen owning a gun.

I don't even care if he/she owns an assault rifle.

Now a violent criminal even in possession of a gun is another story.

 

He didn't give me a heads up about it.

I knew that he applied for the permit, just not that I was a reference.

I don't think that carrying a concealed weapon is a right though.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

 

I believe that it's natural, healthy and smart for people to defend themselves when attacked. I believe that it's our human right to own and use guns to defend ourselves, our families and our communities when there is no better option to stop an attack. I do NOT believe that a government or anyone else should attempt to deny me, you or anyone our rights or to limit them in any way.

 

I dont care if a person is a "citizen" or not. As for violent criminals - I'm with you - I'd rather them not be armed either! BUT, by definition criminals already do not respect laws and violent people by definition violate other people. They're going to do what they want to do, regardless of laws...

 

I dont think that it's fair, logical or necessary to put restrictions on what peace-loving, respectful people are "allowed" to do. Neither Alaska nor Vermont require a permit to carry concealed guns and they seem to be doing fine!

Edited June 12, 2006 by loveliberate

[CollegeB]

Im with you love (haha) I dont believe the government has a right to know who owns what. Have you seen this: http://www.stopungunban.org/ ? Also I am pretty sure I read there was a repeal of the laws which stipulated during times of emergency the government could take up citizen's guns.

[Tarz]

Sometimes leftists/liberals can be just as depressing as right wingers in how cookie cutterish they are though.

Yep.

[wannalift]

College B,

An alex jones fan, nice. I like some of his documentaries, but i consider it more info-tainment than anything else. he raises some very important points, i just don't agree with a lot of his conclusions. "9/11 The Road to Tyranny" is great.

[willpeavy]

Yeah kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

[loveliberate]

Yeah kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

 

Poor Will... It must be really hard for you to deal with these violent religous urges you have. Don't worry though amigo, I'm here for you any time you need to talk! Please also look into getting counseling for this problem.

[SeaSiren]

Yeah kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

 

Since it was brought up, here's the history for those who are unaware:

In case you were wondering, this is a very old quote.

 

It is attributed to Arnaud-Armaury, the Abbot of Citeaux, and "spiritual advisor" to the Albigensian Crusade.

 

Pope Innocent III ordered the Albigensian Crusade, to purge southern France of the Cathari heretics. It began in the summer of 1209, with their first target - the town of Beziers. The Catholic faithful in Beziers refused to give up the Catharis among themselves. The crusaders invaded. When Arnaud-Amaury was asked whom to kill he replied "Kill them all. God will know his own." They did. The crusaders slaughtered nearly everyone in town, over 20,000, either burned or clubbed to death. Thus they achieved their goal of killing the estimated 200 heretics who were hiding in the town among the Catholic faithful. The brutal crusade continued on for the next twenty years. Eventually the Catholics devised a new approach for dealing with the remaining Cathari heretics in France. It was called "the Inquisition".

[willpeavy]

Yeah kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

 

Since it was brought up, here's the history for those who are unaware:

In case you were wondering, this is a very old quote.

 

It is attributed to Arnaud-Armaury, the Abbot of Citeaux, and "spiritual advisor" to the Albigensian Crusade.

 

Pope Innocent III ordered the Albigensian Crusade, to purge southern France of the Cathari heretics. It began in the summer of 1209, with their first target - the town of Beziers. The Catholic faithful in Beziers refused to give up the Catharis among themselves. The crusaders invaded. When Arnaud-Amaury was asked whom to kill he replied "Kill them all. God will know his own." They did. The crusaders slaughtered nearly everyone in town, over 20,000, either burned or clubbed to death. Thus they achieved their goal of killing the estimated 200 heretics who were hiding in the town among the Catholic faithful. The brutal crusade continued on for the next twenty years. Eventually the Catholics devised a new approach for dealing with the remaining Cathari heretics in France. It was called "the Inquisition".

 

Good info, I had no idea it went back that far. When we were kids a friend of mine used to have a t-shirt with that slogan on it, but it was in reference to the cold war. You know, kill all the commies and let god sort them out type thing. I always figured that's where it came from

[willpeavy]

Yeah kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

 

Poor Will... It must be really hard for you to deal with these violent religous urges you have. Don't worry though amigo, I'm here for you any time you need to talk! Please also look into getting counseling for this problem.

 

Uh, I'm hoping you're joking around. If not I apoligize if I offended you in any way

[Richard]

Yeah kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

 

Since it was brought up, here's the history for those who are unaware:

In case you were wondering, this is a very old quote.

 

It is attributed to Arnaud-Armaury, the Abbot of Citeaux, and "spiritual advisor" to the Albigensian Crusade.

 

Pope Innocent III ordered the Albigensian Crusade, to purge southern France of the Cathari heretics. It began in the summer of 1209, with their first target - the town of Beziers. The Catholic faithful in Beziers refused to give up the Catharis among themselves. The crusaders invaded. When Arnaud-Amaury was asked whom to kill he replied "Kill them all. God will know his own." They did. The crusaders slaughtered nearly everyone in town, over 20,000, either burned or clubbed to death. Thus they achieved their goal of killing the estimated 200 heretics who were hiding in the town among the Catholic faithful. The brutal crusade continued on for the next twenty years. Eventually the Catholics devised a new approach for dealing with the remaining Cathari heretics in France. It was called "the Inquisition".

 

That all sounds very reasonable to me.

 

I am confused about the use of the word 'right' and the phrase 'human right'. What is meant by this, and how does it apply to guns? How can anything be said to have a 'right' in the first place?

[loveliberate]

Yeah kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

 

Poor Will... It must be really hard for you to deal with these violent religous urges you have. Don't worry though amigo, I'm here for you any time you need to talk! Please also look into getting counseling for this problem.

 

Uh, I'm hoping you're joking around. If not I apoligize if I offended you in any way

 

You haven't offended me Will. My response to your last post was both sarcastic and serious. Your comment was out of context for this conversation, so I treated it as it stood and as if you meant it seriously.

[loveliberate]

Im with you love (haha) I dont believe the government has a right to know who owns what. Have you seen this: http://www.stopungunban.org/ ? Also I am pretty sure I read there was a repeal of the laws which stipulated during times of emergency the government could take up citizen's guns.

 

I had not seen that website but have heard about the victim disarmament (aka "gun control") proposals and the response from the NRA & others. There has been a lot of great work done to protect us from the type of gun seizures but those battles are far from over. Bush & Co., like most politicians, are NOT friends of gun-owners and freedom loving people.

[Last of the Sane]

I DO have a problem with anyone carrying a gun. I can see where y'all are coming from but... I agree that everyone has the right to defend himself but if no one carries a gun than there is so much less killing. It's just to easy to pull the trigger. If you want to be able to defend yourself join the local martial arts club or something. Fist fights are almost never to death. Now i know that not everybody is able to defend themselves physically and that sucks, but if you're weak then that's one more reasons to stay out of trouble. In general I do agree with freedom of choice, but i just don't feel safe if everyone i passed by on the streets could be carrying a gun.

[loveliberate]

Hi,

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

People who do not respect others do have guns, even when it is illegal for them to do so, and even when they dont they still find ways to hurt other people. Folks who only want to protect themselves have every right to do so and many times a gun is the best tool for defending oneself.

 

You say that " It's just to easy to pull the trigger." I've owned and carried guns for many years now and personally this has made me seek to avoid conflict. I do NOT want to shoot anyone, even to defend myself. I *hate* violence. I will try to talk my way out of or escape from an attack if it is possible to do so. If that does not work, I will use the minimum amount of force needed to stop the attack.

 

But I value my own safety and freedom, as well as that of those I care about too much to deprive myself of any defensive tool or to passively submit when attacked. "Martial arts" are great and I study unarmed defense techniques - but these just dont always work.

 

You wrote: "Now i know that not everybody is able to defend themselves physically and that sucks, but f you're weak then that's one more reasons to stay out of trouble."

 

That's messed up! Don't blame the victim - it's not their fault if someone decides to attack them. Everyone deserves to be free from violence and to take steps to defend themselves and others. Using a gun is rarely the best option for anyone but it's an option that we all need to be able to choose for ourselves whether or not to use.

 

Having a gun does not change the way a person is. Some of the safest places around are also amoung the most heavily armed. Many of the most violent and dangerous places on the planet have the strictest victim disarmament (aka "gun control") laws....