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Liberals with Guns


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I have read that vermont has very loose gun laws yet has a fairly low murder rate. Perhaps there are some cities in the US that skew the statistic of gun ownership to murder.


I know what you mean. If you live on a ranch in Montana miles away from anyone, then a gun could definitely help protect you or your family. If you're carrying a gun in NYC though that's a completely different situation


CollegeB was saying that gun laws and murders are not necessarily linked given that other things, like population density, can also have a dramatic effect on how many murders there are. This is what I was pointing out, I wasn't commenting on the effieciency of murdering someone with a gun as opposed to not having a gun.



I assume that you do actually know and understand the definitions and common use of the words "right" and "human right" so I'll answer your main question. People have the right to defend themselves with whatever force is needed to stop an attack. Guns are tools for doing this and sometimes they are the best tool. People have the right to choose for themselves what tools are best for their defense.


I know what the common use of the words mean, but it seems an arbitrary thing to use as a reason to do something. How is a right established? Can I say "It's my right to punch anyone in the face whenever I feel like it"? This would be argued against because some would say that this is not a right that I have. However, who made the rights, and why do they have authority, what is the reasoning behind the rights, on which so much is being based in this discussion?

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I think there is no question of whether you have a right to defend yourself, of course you do. Shouldn't it also be your right to defend yourself in any way you see fit? Perhpas you are an elderly person in your home and some huge thugs break in, you have no chance unless you are Chuck Norris or Jack Lalane, so you probably need a shotgun. Unless of course you want the thugs to hurt you, your loved ones, pets, steal yours tuff, torch your home etc.

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

From what I've seen "socialist/communist" governments seem to be just as bad or worse, esp. with regards to guns in the hands of free people... Have I been misinformed?

I don't know who you are talking about when you say "socialist/communist" governments. I was talking about endless people's movements that have been crushed in the third world and the US. The majority of leftists are pro-gun.

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