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nelson mandela, malcolm x, ww2


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ive just been thinking about great ones that have lived on the planet and what g00d they've done ...... and i think about how mandela setup a "terroriest" group to help end the apartheid .... and how malcom x was so passionate about doing "anything" for his cause ...... and apparently i heard something about in ww2 where people sabotaged nazi camps, or something to that extent, which were illegal and violent acts to win the war for something g00d (something i gatta read more about but thats what i heard) .... basically what im getting at is do you think there is, or will be, anyone who fights for animal rights like the people we hear about in history b00ks? and you think 1day people in the future people will read about what members of alf do as terrorists or heros?

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i dont know about people sabotaging the extermination camps, but there were groups that blew up rail road tracks, made sure vehicles didnt operate, smuggled messages, spies, weapons. The saboteurs, or partisans as some might know them were a great group. some of the tactics used by radical action orgs were also employed by the resistance forces.

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i dont know about people sabotaging the extermination camps

 

http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl/new/let_my_people_live/forum/www.auschwitzanniversary2005.pl/index-eng47eb.html?s2=articles&s3=ruch_oporu

 

The Revolt of the Sonderkommando Jews

 

However, mutinies of groups of prisoners did happen. The most famous spurt was the long-prepared revolt of the Sonderkommando Jews, which took place on October 7, 1944. Its plan included blowing up the creamatoria, setting the prisoners’ blocks on fire, cutting the fence wires and a mass escape from the camp. The SS, however, discovered the plot: members of the Sonderkommendo were isolated from other prisoners and were being kept on the upper floor of Crematoria II-III. When in late summer, 1944, the number of transport to Auschwitz decreased, the Nazis began the liquidation of the Sonderkommando – witnesses to the most horrible crimes carried out at Auschwitz-Birkenau. In September, two hundred of its members were mudrered. On October 7, it became clear that another three hundred prisoners could share their fate. Facing the imminent threat, they decided to stand up in their own defence. When SS-men arrived at noon, members of the Sonderkommando attacked them with hammers, axes and logs of wood. They set fire to Crematorium IV. The revolt was also taken up by the prisoners from Crematorium II, who cut the wires surrounding the crematorium and started to flee in the direction of the village of Rajsk. Once there, they barricaded themselves in a barn, which the Germans set on fire upon their arrival. The prisoners from Crematoria III and V did not manage to join the revolt soon enough, before new SS units arrived. Out of 663 Sonderkommando members, 451 lost their lives.

 

The revolt had been organized by Polish Jews: Jankiel Handelsman, Josef Deresiński, Załmen Gradowski and Josef Dorębus. The only survivor of the revolt was Handelsman. He was imprisoned in the bunker of Block 11 at Auschwitz. He died after having been tortured. Following their investigation, the Germans managed to determine the origin of explosives, which had been used by the fighters. The materials had been smuggled out illegally by Jewish women working at Union Werke. Roza Robota, Ala Gertner, Regina Safirsztajn and Estera Wajcblum were executed.

 

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/aurevolt.html

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and apparently i heard something about in ww2 where people sabotaged nazi camps, or something to that extent, which were illegal and violent acts to win the war for something g00d (something i gatta read more about but thats what i heard) ....

 

Hhmmmm, sabotaging a death camp an illegal and violent act?? To the Nazis's maybe, but to everyone else... Also put it in the context of what went on in these camps - much more illegal and violent.

 

Also, sabotaging the death camps made no difference to winning the war.

 

Yes, the Allies did a lot of extremely bad stuff during the war, you just don't hear so much of it - 'victor's history'. That said, nothing compared to the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese.

 

Yeah, try and read up on WWII if you get chance. Fascinating.

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you know what i mean how come we l00k at the past and see these people as heroic while animal rights activists are said to be terrorists..... 1day you think the alf will be protrayed as heros?

 

 

I just read an article by Paul Watson, part of which reads:

 

500 years from now, no one will remember the trivialities of today. No one will care who said what about who. No one will even remember most individual actions or campaigns. People will remember that whales once lived, but are no more. They will remember that there were once rain-forests. Or perhaps there will be rainforests and they will remember the name of Randy Hayes. Or perhaps there will still be Mountain gorillas and they will remember Dian Fossey. And hopefully, there will still be whales in the oceans because of our direct-action conservation efforts.

 

People reviled today for their activism will be tomorrow's angels, and people respected today for their wealth and power will be tomorrow's demons. History will absolve us and condemn them. One thing can be said with absolute certainty. Saving lives, protecting species and habitats is good. Killing and destroying species and habitats is bad. There is nothing confusing about this agenda. You are either a protector of the Earth, or a destructive parasite on the Earth.

 

 

I absolutely positively couldnt agree more with Watson, and have changed my signature to his quote. Watson by the way will be speaking at the ar conference.

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I just read an article by Paul Watson, part of which reads:

 

500 years from now, no one will remember the trivialities of today. No one will care who said what about who. No one will even remember most individual actions or campaigns. People will remember that whales once lived, but are no more. They will remember that there were once rain-forests. Or perhaps there will be rainforests and they will remember the name of Randy Hayes. Or perhaps there will still be Mountain gorillas and they will remember Dian Fossey. And hopefully, there will still be whales in the oceans because of our direct-action conservation efforts.

 

People reviled today for their activism will be tomorrow's angels, and people respected today for their wealth and power will be tomorrow's demons. History will absolve us and condemn them. One thing can be said with absolute certainty. Saving lives, protecting species and habitats is good. Killing and destroying species and habitats is bad. There is nothing confusing about this agenda. You are either a protector of the Earth, or a destructive parasite on the Earth.

 

 

Spot on. As you know, I am currently studying in Bonn. You might not know that the United Nations Environment Programme has headquarters here.

 

I have spoken personally with the Executive Secretary of the Convention on the Conservation of Migratory Species of Wild Animals, and he has said that I can undertake an internship with him after I graduate from Oxford next year.

 

I am really excited about this. I see an opportunity to put pressure on all the governments of the world to be more responsible and to do everything in their power to save lives, species and habitats.

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Well there was a lot of civil disobediance during Vietnam that I think really did make a positive difference yet is still generally frowned upon... the government certainly isn't going to admit that it affected policy. If Malcolm X hadn't been assassinated I'm sure he'd still be getting seriously trashed today. Same with MLKjr. The majority hated those two back then and if they were still alive today I bet the majority would still hate them.

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Tarz,

 

Have you seen GREY ZONE? Good movie, I thought.

 

No I wasn't aware of the film Raven - I'll try and see if I can find it - it looks good.

 

Aaron - I saw Escape from Sobibor when I was a kid, I'd like to see it again.

 

I'd recommmend 'Fighting Aushcwitz: The Resistance Movement in the Concentration Camp' by Jozef Garlinski, a member of the Polish underground.

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Ah, thanks for the recommendation, Aaron; I have not seen Sobibor -- have you seen Grey Zone? If so, what did you think of it?

 

Tarz, let me know what you think of it when/if you get a chance to see it.

 

I'd be interested in both your thoughts on it

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  • 1 month later...

There was the White Rose organisation in Nazi Germany that opposed National Socialism. Some of them were executed for publishing pamphlets calling on people to defy the Nazis and to sabotage the war effort.

 

I hope that the AL F are one day seen as selfless heroes who put their liberty at risk to save the weak and defenceless. As long as they don't kill anyone they should manage it.

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Mandella did great things for his people but he was a terrible president...not cruel...he just didn't understand how to run a goverment system which is sad because if he knew what he was doing everyone would have listened to him while he was in power and he could have made things much better.

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Mandella did great things for his people but he was a terrible president...not cruel...he just didn't understand how to run a goverment system which is sad because if he knew what he was doing everyone would have listened to him while he was in power and he could have made things much better.

As for me I vote to add Ingrid Newkirk to the list...surely she does some weird stuff but who doesn't

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