Jump to content

images of my family


PETACANABIS
 Share

Recommended Posts

You said:

 

We should consider ourselves very lucky to be in a position in which we can be vegan. This means we have the ability to make a choice in our lives to try to live compassionately. Perhaps the majority of the world does not have this luxury. Many are more concerned with their own survival and the survival of loved ones- they do not have the luxury of caring about other beings.

 

 

 

In other words, you are saying that perhaps the majority of the world has no choice but to be uncompassionate/unkind to animals.

 

I say, **bull shit**.

 

And I am done here, because we are just going around in circles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 54
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

you're done cuz you don't have a leg to stand on...

I never said people had no choice but to Not be compassionate...I said we are lucky to have that choice when most do not...this particular lifestyle is a CHOICE that we made because we were able to put it at the top of our priority list, since basic sustenace was already met...

 

Again, I'm not too concerned about waking up to tend the crops to feed my family tomorrow morning..so hmmmmm, maybe I'll discuss veganism/compassion on the internet...see how that works...quite simple really...

 

you're making an arguement out of someone merely expressing gratitude!!!! As well as understanding that the ability for us to contemplate the ideology of animal rights is provided by the leisure that our wealth facilitates...

 

FYI: Europe/U.S./Canada (arguably the richest regions...excluding mid east since that wealth is in a very few hands) make up less than 13% of the world's population...I'd call that a minority...(those are the projected figures for 2010...the current figures are even less) Average income is about $6,900 for the whole world...I'd say we're pretty fortunate on the world scale, wouldn't you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you're done cuz you don't have a leg to stand on...

I never said people had no choice but to Not be compassionate...I said we are lucky to have that choice when most do not...this particular lifestyle is a CHOICE that we made because we were able to put it at the top of our priority list, since basic sustenace was already met...

 

***Most that do not have parents providing all of their food do have the choice unless you live somewhere that no plants can grow because its too arid or cold. I could make veganism the bottom of my priority list and I'd be vegan I just wouldn't be promoting it to others. It is a choice to treat animals poorly regaurdless of upbringing unless you were trained like a machine to do those things and never learned any proper thing to compare it to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you're done cuz you don't have a leg to stand on...

I never said people had no choice but to Not be compassionate...I said we are lucky to have that choice when most do not...

 

I dont have a leg to stand on. LOL! I thought you were playing a bit of the devil's advocate here but now I realize that you seriously dont get what I am saying, and refuse to acknowledge what you wrote, and meant, earlier. If you misspoke, just say so, it happens.

 

I am done here because what you are saying is inconsistent and incoherent. Do you not see the problem, the contradiction, in the two highlighted phrases above? 'I never said that some people have no choice but to not be compassionate to animals. I said we are lucky to have that choice when most do not have the choice [to be compassionate to animals].' Is this not what you just said above? It is paradoxical and non-sensical! And forget about the vegan lifestyle for purposes of this thread. You know damn well I wasnt talking about the vegan lifestyle originally in this thread - I was talking merely about basic decency to animals (to stray Mexican dogs and cats, to be exact).

 

this particular lifestyle is a CHOICE that we made because we were able to put it at the top of our priority list, since basic sustenace was already met...

 

Are you serious? Uh, no, veganism was not a choice we were able to make because we "put it at the top of our priority list". That is just assinine, dude. And again, you keep making it as 'grand' as the "vegan lifestyle" (even though the topic was about general decency to animals), because you won't have a leg to stand otherwise.

 

As Daywalker would say, "uff"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you seem to be backpedaling and making veganism a diet issue and not a lifestyle...leather, eggs, dairy, fish, honey (some would argue insects which are a staple in some countries), etc ...again, the choice to be vegan is a choice made by the allowance of free time for contemplation on "the greater meaning of life/actions" rather than day to day survival. I agree 100% that poor folks more than likely eat mostly plant based diets out of necessity...but they also wear leather shoes with no thought of where they came from...and despite your claim -1/4 the world's population see nothing wrong with milk (India)

Is it really that hard to acknowledge that we in North America have it pretty good compared to most of the world? And that that relative priviledge allows us to contemplate philosophical ideals?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most poor people that wear leather shoes wear them because they were handed down...they can't afford them...I've been to China, much of SE asia(these two places make up half of the worlds population and not just 1/4) and the really poor and normal poor are either wearing no shoes(my mother grew up regular poor not really poor for philippine standards and occationally wore her flip flops in order to make them last), or rubber flip flops...a pair costs about $0.30 at most and will last a kid a year until they get so worn the straps won't stay on because they wore the nubs off the bottom. As for milk sure India doesn't see anything wrong with it but its religiously required to drink milk(no excuse) so they won't stop...as for the rest of asia where OVER HALF of the planet lives... milk isn't even consumed because most people can't even take it.

Edited by Anonymous
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

In other words, you are saying that perhaps the majority of the world has no choice but to be uncompassionate/unkind to animals.

 

.

That is exactly what you said...and I never said people had "no choice but to be uncompassionate"...but I can see the jumbled double triple negative and I can see how that is kind of confusing in hind sight...but to make it clear...people always have the choice...BUT for many veganism is not high on their priority list. Maybe YOU weren't talking about veganism, but I was...go back and read it...and if you think VEGANISM is not a matter of priorities I suggest you go back to Armenia or Turkey and ask the people in the slums...I doubt veganism is at the top of their priority list. Again, maybe I should have put it in really simple terms...when people are free from oppression then animals will be that much freer from oppression. Can you at least agree with that...

You do understand that I am a vegan, I'm not knocking it or condoning abuse...but if you don't think that leisure allows for the contemplation of philosophical inquiry I don't know what to say other than you need to get out more...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most poor people that wear leather shoes wear them because they were handed down...they can't afford them...I've been to China, much of SE asia(these two places make up half of the worlds population and not just 1/4) .

 

again...leather shoes...they don't really care that they came from a cow...that's my point...they are happy to have shoes, they don't really care where they came from...once more...veganism-the pursuit of living life free of using animal products- is a luxury some do not have, they just don't care because they have other concerns...

(and I knew that China/India made up 1/2 the population- I was merely pointing out India's milk consumption (1/4 the world's pop.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it really that hard to acknowledge that we in North America have it pretty good compared to most of the world? And that that relative priviledge allows us to contemplate philosophical ideals?

 

Acknowledged, with the qualification that refraining from deliberate cruelty to animals isnt existential food for thought like "why are we here"? Not in this day and age. Maybe it was back in the days of Plato and Socrates. But in the 21 st century, you do not need to devote time to leisurely pontificate the moral repugance of poisoning an innocent puppy because she annoys you.

 

you seem to be backpedaling and making veganism a diet issue and not a lifestyle...

 

I am not making veganism an issue, period, in this thread. The discussion began when I asked PC about stray dogs and cats in Mexico, and whether Mexicans generally treated them kindly or viewed them as vermon to be eliminated. The topic of the thread, for the umpteenth time, was initially about basic decency towards animals. It was never about veganism, the "diet" or the lifestyle. Yet you continue to pretend that it was. which is why I said I was done - because I am getting a headache.

 

 

Editted to add: never mind this last part. You cross posted a response above while I was editting this in which you acknowledge that I was not talking about veganism here with PC.

Edited by compassionategirl
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We should consider ourselves very lucky to be in a position in which we can be vegan. This means we have the ability to make a choice in our lives to try to live compassionately. Perhaps the majority of the world does not have this luxury. Many are more concerned with their own survival and the survival of loved ones- they do not have the luxury of caring about other beings. !

 

here it is again....wow...does that say vegan...hmmmmmmm...yep...

Edited by karlhubris
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually this was about pictures of a cute dog...it turned to attitudes towards animals in Mexico...after contemplating the poverty in Mexico I was grateful for my life in a wealthy part of the world...that is where my thoughts came from...like I said, I never thought it would be so controversial...next thing I know I'm advocating ritual kitty burnings and southeast asian puppy massacres...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't back pedaling and I wouldn't need to since you can't be a vegan in diet...you can only be a vegetarian. The word VEGAN is the lifestyle that goes with actually being a vegetarian.

The thought of contemplating issues like we do has nothing to do with treating animals in a cruel manner. If they don't have the time to think about other things they should just leave animals alone and not treat them good or bad. You don't have to care about anything to leave things alone do you??? I don't care about giant squid because nobody sees them and can't be cruel to them...I just leave them alone...its easy...I'm doing it right now...and poor people are also not caring about giant squid just like me and at this moment no people are hurting giant squid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't back pedaling and I wouldn't need to since you can't be a vegan in diet...you can only be a vegetarian. The word VEGAN is the lifestyle that goes with actually being a vegetarian.

The thought of contemplating issues like we do has nothing to do with treating animals in a cruel manner. .

 

Perhaps you should read my post before arguing with me...my post was specifically about veganism. I had to go back and reread it myself... somewhere along the line it was changed to animal abuse...that wasn't what I said...suddenly I'm accused of condoning kitty sacrifices and the skinning alive of spotted owls....VEGANISM...read it...nothing really that controversial about my post...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many are more concerned with their own survival and the survival of loved ones- they do not have the luxury of caring about other beings.

 

Gaawd does that argument get old. All I am going to do here is to state what should be beyond question: like LL said, nobody, **nobody** needs to be intentionally cruel. In that regard, you are wrong - compassion is not a luxury that only the privileged have; compassion is a moral imperative that the human race cannot afford to live without. To dismiss it as a "luxury" is to dismiss humanity's only hope for survival.

 

.

 

I see this is where the confusion started...I'm talking about veganism, not animal cruelty...but at the risk of re-igniting the debate...cruelty is a learned behaviour...when people stop being cruel to one another, cruelty to animals will halt soon after...not saying its right, just saying the cycle needs to be stopped...agreed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually this was about pictures of a cute dog...it turned to attitudes towards animals in Mexico...after contemplating the poverty in Mexico I was grateful for my life in a wealthy part of the world...that is where my thoughts came from...like I said, I never thought it would be so controversial...next thing I know I'm advocating ritual kitty burnings and southeast asian puppy massacres...

 

Yup, I would have to agree that this thread turned into a bit of a train wreck.

 

Sorry PC!

 

it would be so much easier to talk about these issues, live, in person.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many are more concerned with their own survival and the survival of loved ones- they do not have the luxury of caring about other beings.

 

Gaawd does that argument get old. All I am going to do here is to state what should be beyond question: like LL said, nobody, **nobody** needs to be intentionally cruel. In that regard, you are wrong - compassion is not a luxury that only the privileged have; compassion is a moral imperative that the human race cannot afford to live without. To dismiss it as a "luxury" is to dismiss humanity's only hope for survival.

 

.

 

I see this is where the confusion started...I'm talking about veganism, not animal cruelty...but at the risk of re-igniting the debate...cruelty is a learned behaviour...when people stop being cruel to one another, cruelty to animals will halt soon after...not saying its right, just saying the cycle needs to be stopped...agreed?

 

 

Or, some would argue (myself included), that not until people stop being cruel to animals will they stop being cruel to each other. As one person put it, cruelty to animals is a fundamental human debacle, a debacle so fundamental that all others stem from it.

 

Good night.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps you should read my post before arguing with me...my post was specifically about veganism. I had to go back and reread it myself... somewhere along the line it was changed to animal abuse...that wasn't what I said...suddenly I'm accused of condoning kitty sacrifices and the skinning alive of spotted owls....VEGANISM...read it...nothing really that controversial about my post...

 

I could have sworn animals abuse and veganism go together...I'm pretty sure you can get away with talking about animal abuse and speaking specifically about veganism at the same time, no??? No need to argue these things all go together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that the most cruel and violent people were themselves the victims of cruel and violent treatment. They are themselves victims....

 

Which makes what they are doing all the more worse, as they know what it is like to be a victim. To inflict similiar treatment they have been through on to others..... Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

I agree that some cruel and violent people were indeed themselves victims, unsure about 'most' being.

 

Some people are just sick fuckers who have never been victims at all - no two ways about it - and there are no excuses for behaving this way.

 

Haven't read all the thread yet so someone may have already posted similiar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't back pedaling and I wouldn't need to since you can't be a vegan in diet...you can only be a vegetarian. The word VEGAN is the lifestyle that goes with actually being a vegetarian.

The thought of contemplating issues like we do has nothing to do with treating animals in a cruel manner. If they don't have the time to think about other things they should just leave animals alone and not treat them good or bad. You don't have to care about anything to leave things alone do you??? I don't care about giant squid because nobody sees them and can't be cruel to them...I just leave them alone...its easy...I'm doing it right now...and poor people are also not caring about giant squid just like me and at this moment no people are hurting giant squid.

 

once again...here's your quote...I'm talking about veganism, but you're on a tyraid about animal cruelty...I said we made a choice to lead a vegan lifestyle...then you went off on how poor people mostly eat vegetarian...but that was never my point...I'm talking about veganism...you're talking about a choice to be cruel...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share




×
×
  • Create New...