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Strict Vegan Diets May Be Dangerous


Alex
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I'll respond to the specifics later on, but for now, suffice it to say some people just can't add muscle without meat. It's certainly true, and please don't ask for references. Experience is the best teacher. Some people have bodies which are so extremely soft and fragile it's impossible to build strong, hard muscles without some meat. It's my personal experience. After giving up meat, I am finding it hard to bulk. Also, you must eat a LOT if you're veggie because of the small quantity of proteins, carbs, fibers in veggie items. These are the obvious disadvantages.

 

Out of curiosity, why are you guys vegans? Is it from a health perspective, or on account of ethical considerations, like you dont wanna hurt animals? For me, it's the latter. The bible and other holy books, however, clearly encourage meat-eating, so it wouldn't be spiritually wrong, I suppose.

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I agree that meat, and maybe even to a greater degree dairy, is good muscle building food.

I've wondered how much of it is from the natural flesh or the unnatural stuff we pump into our animals.

Milk is designed to grow a baby cow very fast, so even organic dairy probably grows human muscle faster.

But eating meat and milk causes so many health problems. And suffering.

 

I don't have any personal experiences of lifting while eating meat.

I started lifting after I started eating vegan.

I've had steady improvements since I started.

You are right, Veggies do need to eat a LOT.

3 pounds of broccoli has only a few more calories than 1/4 pound of beef

Legumes and grains have closer calorie and protein characteristics to meat.

 

I began eating a vegan diet for personal health.

But I am glad that the animals and environment benefit from my new lifestyle

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It's certainly true, and please don't ask for references.

I don't think that's going to convince anyone! References are necessary.

 

As for diabetics needing meat:

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/29/8/1777

 

Also, you must eat a LOT if you're veggie because of the small quantity of proteins, carbs, fibers in veggie items.

Are you suggesting that animal products have more carbs and fiber than veggies do??

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It's true that Vegans are more prone to strokes and heart attacks, though.

 

If vegans are more prone to heart attacks/strokes, it's most likely because of elevated homocysteine levels, which are tied to low levels of B12. The 'solution' is not to eat animal products, but to be sure to take a vegan B12 supplement.

 

It's alright to eat meat once in a while, even for a vegan.

 

I certainly wouldn't call that person a "vegan," more like a 'flexitarian" (PC term for people who just want to eat whatever, whenever! ) And, please, if YOU are doing this, DON'T call yourself a vegan (or even a vegetarian).

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Sorry if people are upset, I was just trying to understand because I am new to this ism. I am not a troll. I am a serious vegan bodybuilder. As far as proof that vegans find it hard to put on muscle, you only need to look around. Are there vegetarian Schwarzenegers? Slys? Van Dammes? The list goes on. Not implying that there are no vegan bbs but it's that much more difficult.

 

Out of curiosity, are vegans permitted to drink milk? if not, why not?

 

Again, I am only trying to learn, so please don't sling accusations.

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You have to remember that about 1% of people in the US are vegan (and I think it's similar in the UK). The rate is probably even lower among bodybuilders. With such a tiny propotion of builders being vegan, it's not surprising that there aren't many or any famous ones. Also, I think that vegans are more like to be natural bodybuilders, while most of the big names tend to use steriods. This doesn't mean that it's impossible for vegans to be good bodybuilders--there just aren't many out there trying it compared to the number of meat-eating builders there are.

 

Out of curiosity, are vegans permitted to drink milk? if not, why not?

It's not a matter of being "permitted" to do things. But vegans are people who have decided not to consume meat, dairy, eggs, honey, or other animal products (or use or wear animal products). That's what a vegan is, so a person who drinks milk is not a vegan.

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Sorry if people are upset, I was just trying to understand because I am new to this ism. I am not a troll. I am a serious vegan bodybuilder. As far as proof that vegans find it hard to put on muscle, you only need to look around. Are there vegetarian Schwarzenegers? Slys? Van Dammes? The list goes on. Not implying that there are no vegan bbs but it's that much more difficult.

 

Out of curiosity, are vegans permitted to drink milk? if not, why not?

 

Again, I am only trying to learn, so please don't sling accusations.

Bill Pearl won Mr. Universe as a lacto-ovo vegetarain in 1971.

He quit using steroid 10 years earlier. I'm not sure when he went vegetarian.

I wouldn't give credit to Arnold's success to meat.

Hard work and genetics were a major part.

A few performance enhancing ingredients probably also had a part.

I'm sure with a properly planned vegan diet Arnold could have been just as big.

 

Most vegan bodybuilders are natural bodybuilders.

They will never get as big as guys like Arnold.

 

I know the first question that probably comes to mind is, "How will I get enough protein?" According to the PDCAAS (Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score), one of the measurement scales for protein quality, soy has been rated 1.0 (the highest) right alongside whey and above that of beef which scored a .92. It is a complete protein source containing all of the basic building blocks (the 8 essential amino acids) necessary for the growth and recuperation of muscle tissue.

Does that makes soy a better bodybuilding food than beef?

Edited by MontanaVegan
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I just saw this thread this morning. I always like to give forum members a chance before I decide they are a troll and get rid of them. I think veganbuilder just may be curious about how it all works. I'm even chatting with a guy online right now, who is asking very similar questions. He says he has a lot of respect for what I'm doing and is asking all about vegans, athletes, nutrition, what to eat, etc.

 

I think some people may be curious about these things.

 

VB, one thing to remember is that the # of vegans is pretty small and the number of bodybuilders is pretty small, so there aren't going to be a ton of vegan bodybuilders out there, but we do have a solid group of us who compete.

 

There have been some amazing vegan athletes out there, including one of the greatest athletes ever, Carl Lewis, who won 10 Olympic medals and who was my favorite athlete growing up (even though I didn't even know he was vegan).

 

Things take time. It takes time for athletes to evolve and switch their eating habits and lifestyle choices. We just have to look back only a few decades to see how athletes and sports have changed dramatically.

 

In 20-30 years, we'll be able to look back and wonder why there weren't more vegan guys in the NFL, etc. because I think we're moving more and more elite athletes to a plant-based diet.

 

Remember to respect the group, that we are vegans and we are passionate about our lifestyle. Feel free to ask whatever questions you like, but remember that 99% of them have already been answered somewhere in the forum, so just keep exploring.

 

All the best,

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I'll respond to the specifics later on, but for now, suffice it to say some people just can't add muscle without meat. It's certainly true, and please don't ask for references. Experience is the best teacher. Some people have bodies which are so extremely soft and fragile it's impossible to build strong, hard muscles without some meat. It's my personal experience. After giving up meat, I am finding it hard to bulk. Also, you must eat a LOT if you're veggie because of the small quantity of proteins, carbs, fibers in veggie items. These are the obvious disadvantages.

 

Out of curiosity, why are you guys vegans? Is it from a health perspective, or on account of ethical considerations, like you dont wanna hurt animals? For me, it's the latter. The bible and other holy books, however, clearly encourage meat-eating, so it wouldn't be spiritually wrong, I suppose.

 

As far as the bible goes, as told in Genesis, we were created for a vegan diet, man never ate meat until Noah landed the arc. Not to mention our bodies are created like every other naturally occuring vegetarian in the wild. (Hence the long intestines, the flat flimsy nails, flat blunt teeth, and in men, seminal vesicles).

 

 

I believe eating meat is wrong, no matter what aspect of life you look at.

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I'll respond to the specifics later on, but for now, suffice it to say some people just can't add muscle without meat. It's certainly true, and please don't ask for references.

Do you have a reference for that?

 

Also, you must eat a LOT if you're veggie because of the small quantity of proteins, carbs, fibers in veggie items. These are the obvious disadvantages.

I would suggest you go to some nutritional database and check out the nutritional value of things like soybeans, chickpeas, lentils, tofu, seitan, pasta, rice and then rethink your position on this issue.

 

Out of curiosity, why are you guys vegans? Is it from a health perspective, or on account of ethical considerations, like you dont wanna hurt animals? For me, it's the latter.

If you are against killing animal, why do you think it's ok to eat meat every now and then?

 

I am a serious vegan bodybuilder.
Out of curiosity, are vegans permitted to drink milk? if not, why not?

No offense, but how can you be a serious vegan bodybuilder when you dont know what a vegan is? Perhaps this link may be useful .

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Sorry if people are upset, I was just trying to understand because I am new to this ism. I am not a troll. I am a serious vegan bodybuilder. As far as proof that vegans find it hard to put on muscle, you only need to look around. Are there vegetarian Schwarzenegers? Slys? Van Dammes? The list goes on. Not implying that there are no vegan bbs but it's that much more difficult.

 

Out of curiosity, are vegans permitted to drink milk? if not, why not?

 

Again, I am only trying to learn, so please don't sling accusations.

 

You have a lot of learning to do, that's all I have to say.

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After giving up meat, I am finding it hard to bulk. Also, you must eat a LOT if you're veggie because of the small quantity of proteins, carbs, fibers in veggie items. These are the obvious disadvantages.

 

See these before/after pics. I gained around 30 pounds of muscle on a meatless diet viewtopic.php?t=1455

 

Pound for pound, there are more grams of protein in dried lentils than in steak. Beans have lots of fiber and protein. Pasta and rice have lots of carbs

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Here are my before and after photos.

 

http://www.vegetarianteen.com/interviews/robertcheeke.shtml

 

Just ignore how many tofu hotdogs I was eating back then. It worked to put on a lot of size, but isn't the "healthiest" way to go.

 

Daywalker, Jonathan, and many others have awesome before and after photos. There are only a handful of big-name vegan athletes but that number is growing all the time, including within strength sports, not just endurance sports.

 

Stay inspired, Go Vegan!

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Vegan Builder. You ask why there are no vegan Scharzenegers and the like...well with so many meat eaters I dont understand why there are not at least 20 Arnolds. I think its a one in a million kind of person, despite what they eat. But just wait we'll have our Arnold. Anyhow the vegan diet should not be a hinderance to your training. If it was I dont think we'd have people doing flag stands and deadlifting over 500lbs, winning competitions, etc.

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CollegeB is right, and I try to get that point across as well. There are certain people who are one in a million type that you just don't find on every street corner.

 

There are also 300 million people in America, yet only one Michael Jordan (although Lebron James could eventually be even better).

 

Then there is the vegan population that is pretty small right now. I'd like to think that it is growing all the time, and will soon produce these amazing athletes.

 

I also think that you can take these Arnold and Jordan guys and put them on a vegan diet and their performance will not go down, perhaps it would even improve. As long as they take in the same amount of calories, grams of protein, etc. as they did on their non-vegan diet, there shouldn't be much of a difference....perhaps more energy would be a by-product of being on a vegan diet.

 

Even within our small population of vegans, we do have some amazing athletes....everything from Olympic to World Champion, World-Class, Professional and elite from a variety of sports.

 

I'd like to see more Pro Vegan Athletes and I'm not sure what the best way to do that is......get good vegan athletes and encourage them to get better, or take current pro athletes and get them to switch to a vegan diet/lifestyle.

 

We'll get our Vegan Arnolds someday....perhaps we already had him with Andreas Cahling.

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Also, remember that vegan bodybuilders are more apt to be 'natural' bodybuilders, and not use things like Steroids or Human Growth Hormones. Obviously, seeing that a vegan won a European natural BB contest, they can compare favorably to non-vegan natural bodybuilders.

 

Another question is, how "natural' is it to get as big as some bodybuilders? Not very, IMO, if it takes drugs to do so. And we're not even talking about the health consequences of the diet and lifestyle of the hard-core bodybuilder (I'd like to see stats on the life expectancy of these folks).

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Most of those big muscle would be bigger than the average person with and without meat and before roids...roids are what get them outlandishly huge. I'm naturally muscular and got a ton of muscle and stregth before I went vegan but when I went vegan it was even easier to do that and that is without supplements(pre-vegan I took whatever wasn't illegal)...now I can't even lose muscle on a vegan diet which is my goal...if I'm failing to lose muscle on a vegan diet its surely possible to gain it just as easily. The only problem is that these muscle men are told they need meat to grow so they eat it...we only need people like them to decide to eat vegan at an early age in order to prove that muscle growth is similar.

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Also, diabetics need meat, there is no way around it.

 

This is completely incorrect. Read Drs Ornish and McDougal's studies on this. Dr. Ornish has reduced 75% of test subject from needing diabetic medicine, by eating a very low fat vegan diet. There is a Kansas University Medical School study that shows the same thing. The high fat SAD diets is the cause of most diabetic cases. Dr. Ornish just had his study present to the Diabetic association and it is fully peer reviewed (it was all over the news recently.)

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Vegans are actually not prone to heart attacks at all (the average carnist man has a 50% chance of dying from a heart attack, a vegan has only a 4% chance). In some cases, where a vegan eats a highly-processed diet (which is full of sodium), they may be more prone to strokes than would the average carnist. But I think we're all safe from that, hmm?

 

I don't care if you're vegan, dude, DON'T SPREAD MISINFORMATION. It's not cool, and it's not helpful.

 

P.S. There ARE famous vegan bodybuilders. In Germany there's a bodybuilding contest called the Welt Meister (World Master), and this year a vegan won the contest.

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