milk or no milk

[kuramus]

i know many of you people think lacto-vegetarians as not-vegetarians, but as you can read from my emo story in my intro, i am living with people who do nut understand why it is necessary to be a vegan, so i must accept the things they buy without the meat. i never drank much milk/milk products until some months ago i decided to give it up completely.

but i was wondering if in my case when not eating special healthy vegan foods it might be bad for me to just quit and not substitute it with anything?

 

thanks for listening.

[pelicanAndrew]

Just make sure you get your calcium from other sources. That's your only worry.

 

Try and get them to read factual unbiased books(The China Study comes to mind) about how animal fats and proteins are basically the downfall of our society's health.

 

If that fails, maybe some footage of dairy cows and how they really "live" will make them a little bit more understanding.

[Guest]

If your eating/drinking dairy and stop you don't need to substitute it with anything since in reality your losing calcium when you consume dairy...if you stop immediately and eat all the same things in the same amount the only thing you'd be lacking is a bunch of lousy calories. If you weren't getting enough calcium while drinking milk you'll have more in your body when you stop...even if your calcium sources were minimal.

[Kathryn]

People who drink milk are vegetarians (lacto-vegetarians) by all traditional definitions of the term.

 

The only things you are getting from milk are a sugar that is often hard to digest (lactose), fat, pus (the US allows a higher percentage of pus in milk than do other countries, and cows in the US are more apt to have mastitis and produce pus because of the hormones they are given), and calcium (vitamin D is added to milk, and is not natural to it).

 

The only things you need to make sure you are getting are the calcium (which is actually found in better company of synergistic minerals like boron and magnesium and manganese in plant foods, especially dark greens) and vitamin D (which you can get enough of from 10=15 minutes a day of daily unprotected sun exposure, or though supplements.

 

Most non-dairy milks are fortified with calcium and vitamin D to replicate that found in cow's milk, and they make excellent direct substitutes for cow's milk in recipes.

 

Perhaps your housemates would better understand the need to give up milk if it were pointed out to them that milk 'production' is very much tied in to the veal calf industry. Every glass of milk contains a bit of veal calf. By that, I mean that in order to have milk, a cow has to have a calf at least once every two years. If the calf is female, she will probably be added to the herd of milk producers (after being prematurely separated from her mother). If the calf is a male, he is of no use to the dairy farmer, and will most likely be shipped off to a veal 'production' facility, again, after being taken from his mother when only a few days old (if they wait that long!).

 

Also, have your housemates read T. Colin Campbell or John Robbins, they might help them understand better why one 'needs' to be a vegan (RObbins is especially good, IMO). Or, arrange a showiing of "Diet for a New America" (Robins' video) some night.

[Cristian]

i know many of you people think lacto-vegetarians as not-vegetarians, but as you can read from my emo story in my intro, i am living with people who do nut understand why it is necessary to be a vegan, so i must accept the things they buy without the meat. i never drank much milk/milk products until some months ago i decided to give it up completely.

but i was wondering if in my case when not eating special healthy vegan foods it might be bad for me to just quit and not substitute it with anything?

 

thanks for listening.

 

You should have no problem getting calcium from natural sources, Check out this list.

 

http://pages.interlog.com/~john13/recipes/calcium.htm

 

Apricots are also rich in calcium and you can always get calcium from some fortified foods like soy milk.

[belleadonna]

Try almond milk. It's delicious. You can buy it almost anywhere. You shouldn't need to worry about calcium unless you are taking in high levels of protein. Protein robs the body of calcium. You get plenty of calcium from veggies and other vegan goodies.

[michael]

One of the biggest lies prepetuated where human health and nutrition is concerned comes to us courtesy of the dairy industry, which for nearly 80 years now has been the de-facto dispenser of nutritional advice.

 

Calcium loss is only one aspect of osteoporosis and osteopenia in aging people. And it has always been about maintaining your reserves over the years rather than trying to boost your levels. (Just ask the Asians and Africans). Bovine lactate, as I call it (and it should be labeled as such on cartons) is poor in the very minerals which facillitate Ca uptake (e.g. iron) in the body.

 

No, insufficient calcium stores have a great deal more to do with sedentary living, smoking, alcohol consumption and excessive meat eating--which promotes bloodstream acidification, etc., all the things that are in abundance in western societies, but relatively minor in traditional ones.

 

Try almond milk. It's delicious. You can buy it almost anywhere. You shouldn't need to worry about calcium unless you are taking in high levels of protein.

 

Good choice--naturally high levels of more bio-available Ca. I'm especially fond of sesame and quinoa for Ca sources. High levels of animal protein are especially bad due to their greater levels of sulfur (read: non-alkalizing) bearing amino acids.

[kuramus]

Try almond milk. It's delicious. You can buy it almost anywhere. You shouldn't need to worry about calcium unless you are taking in high levels of protein. Protein robs the body of calcium. You get plenty of calcium from veggies and other vegan goodies.

Um, almost anywhere in the US? Here in Estonia we don't even have soymilk almost nowhere.

 

ayways, thanks for answering.

[CollegeB]

Someone put up an almond milk recipe around here somewhere...

[belleadonna]

Oops, didn't notice where you were from. Sorry. But you can get almonds there, no? There are recipes for making almond milk on the net somewhere.

[Kathryn]

Almond milk:

Soak almonds for 2 hours or more (up to , drain (the dark tint in the water is from antinutrients that inhibit enzymes), put 1 part almonds to 1-2 parts water in a blender (along with some dates for sweetening if you like) , blend, then strain. The more water-to-almonds, the lighter the 'milk,' the less water, the thicker.

 

You can also make sesame or sunflower 'milk' (soak for the shorter time), or a combo. You can even make hemp milk (hulled hemp seeds and water).

[Freesia]

I am learning so much each time I come here. Thanks Katheryn for the milk recipe. You always post good nutritional info.

 

Do you think dairy causes arthritis type aches and pains. When I was drinking milk I wasn't sure but was wondering if that was the cause of my pain.

 

What do you all know about that? Just to be free from the pain I get when I get up from sitting for awhile will make me so happy. Sometimes I have it more than others that is why I think it is dietary related. I know it is probably because I need to lose a lot of weight(working on that). Something flares it up.

[Kathryn]

Do you think dairy causes arthritis type aches and pains. When I was drinking milk I wasn't sure but was wondering if that was the cause of my pain.

I don't recall seeing anything about that, but if your body has a somewhat allergic reaction to milk, then it would cause inflammation, which could lead to pain.

 

I think our bodies can react in a myriad of ways that let us know that something is not good for us.

 

Some people say that when they avoid nightshade-related vegetables (tomatoes, eggplant, potatoes, tobacco), their arthritis pain is reduced. You might want to look into that.

[Odidnetne]

Do you think dairy causes arthritis type aches and pains. When I was drinking milk I wasn't sure but was wondering if that was the cause of my pain.

I don't recall seeing anything about that, but if your body has a somewhat allergic reaction to milk, then it would cause inflammation, which could lead to pain.

 

I think our bodies can react in a myriad of ways that let us know that something is not good for us.

 

Some people say that when they avoid nightshade-related vegetables (tomatoes, eggplant, potatoes, tobacco), their arthritis pain is reduced. You might want to look into that.

 

I also read in the book "You don't need meat", that a lot of people who drink dairy have reduced arthritis pains when they quit drinking it, and it returns if they start drinking it again.

[_raVen_]

 

Do you think dairy causes arthritis type aches and pains. When I was drinking milk I wasn't sure but was wondering if that was the cause of my pain. .

 

Freesia, if you're coming off a standard Western diet, you may be suffering the effects of it -- or your joints are. You are correct that it is most-likely diet related. One of the biggest culprits is dairy, yes! It is the animal protein (that seems to be the problem most times, isn't it?) For this reason, meat is also considered a contributor as well -- it is the acidic nature of these "foods" which also cause so, so many issues!

 

Kathryn listed the nightshades which are also common triggers, as well as grains such as corn, wheat, etc., or derivatives of same -- cornstarch, gluten; so checking labels is important if you have an allergy. (Even tiny amounts can cause pain). You may want to try an elimination method to find out which is the little devil causing you problems. (note the acidic theme...Grains are also acidic and not optimal, especially a grain/starch-based diet)

 

However, you may have a notion of what it is...do you? If you consume dairy, I'd eliminate that first. You don't need it anyway, and it causes a host of other issues and you'll be healthier for getting rid of it .

 

It's another example of vital information the powerful Dairy and Cattle industries lobby hard to keep from Us.

However you can read HERE about it and the elimination procedure and HERE for more about food and arthritis.

 

Dr. Fuhrman's "Eat to Live" dietary guidelines have cured people of many conditions, including arthritis.

 

MORE here with a great comment following it.

 

Are you consuming enough/any E.F.A.'s? That can help with joint issues. 1 TB of ground flax seeds every day or a DHA Supplement will help tremendously with a LOT of things, including arthritic issues. As well, up your leafy greens intake for a great food source, as well as consuming nuts daily and (about 1 ounce total). Forgo oils for optimal nutrition and consume your fat in its natural form, such as the seeds and nuts.

 

I highly recommend Dr. Fuhrman's dietary guidelines and his products which are excellent, including his DHA.

[Freesia]

I think it was the dairy causing my stiffness and pain. I was consuming more dairy after I cut out meat. I am allergic to grains and breakout in hives. I tend to go into denial and eat them anyway Sometimes. To eat a balanced vegan diet I am still thinking I need to combine grains and beans and the like. I don't really like beans as they are. I like salads, raw veggies, seeds and nuts. I can eat rice. I guess I need to learn more recipes.

 

I am physically active at my job and being one hundred pounds overweight, I am sure that is causing some pain and soreness. Lugging all that weight up and down the halls and bending over to care for patients. Stress from that.

 

I will definetly make the almond milk and use that until I find out if I am allergic to soy. I had a reaction from a Genesoy bar. My heart raced and I broke out in some hives. I get that reaction from wheat and other grains especially if I eat more than one serving.

 

Mainly right now i have been eating salads (lots of olives mmmmm) fruit and some grain products. Trying to eat more beans .....

Thanks all for your advice!!!!

[Freesia]

 

Do you think dairy causes arthritis type aches and pains. When I was drinking milk I wasn't sure but was wondering if that was the cause of my pain. .

 

Freesia, if you're coming off a standard Western diet, you may be suffering the effects of it -- or your joints are. You are correct that it is most-likely diet related. One of the biggest culprits is dairy, yes! It is the animal protein (that seems to be the problem most times, isn't it?) For this reason, meat is also considered a contributor as well -- it is the acidic nature of these "foods" which also cause so, so many issues!

 

Kathryn listed the nightshades which are also common triggers, as well as grains such as corn, wheat, etc., or derivatives of same -- cornstarch, gluten; so checking labels is important if you have an allergy. (Even tiny amounts can cause pain). You may want to try an elimination method to find out which is the little devil causing you problems. (note the acidic theme...Grains are also acidic and not optimal, especially a grain/starch-based diet)

 

However, you may have a notion of what it is...do you? If you consume dairy, I'd eliminate that first. You don't need it anyway, and it causes a host of other issues and you'll be healthier for getting rid of it .

 

It's another example of vital information the powerful Dairy and Cattle industries lobby hard to keep from Us.

However you can read HERE about it and the elimination procedure and HERE for more about food and arthritis.

 

Dr. Fuhrman's "Eat to Live" dietary guidelines have cured people of many conditions, including arthritis.

 

MORE here with a great comment following it.

 

Are you consuming enough/any E.F.A.'s? That can help with joint issues. 1 TB of ground flax seeds every day or a DHA Supplement will help tremendously with a LOT of things, including arthritic issues. As well, up your leafy greens intake for a great food source, as well as consuming nuts daily and (about 1 ounce total). Forgo oils for optimal nutrition and consume your fat in its natural form, such as the seeds and nuts.

 

I highly recommend Dr. Fuhrman's dietary guidelines and his products which are excellent, including his DHA.

 

 

good info in those sources. TYVM