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On adding more protein to your diet...


_raVen_
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This is the kind of article I'd like to post a link to in some other forums where the subscribers are so 'gung ho' on protein, especially animal protein--and would then be summarily deluged with angry responses. The article more or less states, like John Robbins in "Diet for a New America" that it is virtually impossible to not get adequate amounts of protein with a well rounded vegetarian diet, which I firmly believe.

 

I always suspected that a friends' recurring kidney stones is strongly correlated with his high meat/protein intake.

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That is an interesting article.

 

So are there detrimental effects from plant based protein powders?

 

BennyBoy, I do know that the doctors familiar with and who have studied vegan nutrition do not advise protein powders and supplements, as michael stated. Soy isolate seems to be one of the worst.

However, Dr. Fuhrman has some professional and Olympic athletes under his care and mentions that for them, when caloric needs increase, his favorite nuts and seeds to add to their diets are pine nuts and sunflower seeds for their high-protein content. This, with the nutrient dense foods like leafy greens, supply a lot of protein. Their muscle size comes from weightlifting and not food.

 

Protein stuffing, some believe, may make them bigger or more cut or whatever, but it is not health promoting; and going on and off, on and off -- yo-yo'ing, basically -- is also not healthful.

 

In terms of studies on whether equal amounts of plant protein and animal causing the same damage, I'm not aware (like the kidney damage and calcium leaching, etc.)

Plant protein is absorbed differently from animal, so that's one problem I can see already!

 

I recall reading that plant protein is not as bad as animal protein; but we all know that already, and it did not mention isolated protein sources and intake.

 

thanks Raven, that's fabulous info

That blog has great stuff in it. I read it almost every day

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I recall reading that plant protein is not as bad as animal protein; but we all know that already, and it did not mention isolated protein sources and intake.

 

 

As I recall, one of the bad things about animal protein (there are others) is it contains high amounts of sulfur containing amino acids and is a lot more acidic than plant based proteins.

Edited by 9nines
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As I recall, one of the bad things about animal protein (there are others) is it contains high amounts of sulfuric amino acids and is a lot more acidic than plant based proteins.

 

Ick...there's that acid word again. That word has become a trigger for me It's almost as bad as "meat."

That's one reason why plant protein isn't as bad as animal protein; but I'd still like to know what issues are caused by excessive plant protein isolates besides the obvious of being out of nutritional balance...like does it also burden the kidneys, leach calcium from the acid, etc.? I'm guessing it does; but just not as much and doesn't have all the other negatives linked to animal proteins.

 

That reminds me: when I was experimenting checking my PH, when I took rice protein (alone) right before bed, I awoke acidic; when I had my green smoothie (leafy greens) before bed, I awoke alkaline.

But, again, I don't know if this really means anything in regard to kidneys, calcium-leaching, etc.

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I would like to know dangers of isolatwd proteins. I am having trouble eating enough calories in a day. I get ~250 calories from a Cliff Bar or similar. It would be hard to make up that 250 calories but I do not like the isolated soy protein or the saturated fat those bars have.

 

I just want the calories, are there any "nutritional" (I know they are really junk food) bars that do not have isolated protein?

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The only ones I know of are Bumble Bars; but not sure how you feel about the sugars.

You could also try making your own. Bean-based would be good.

 

 

Those look very good, like peanut crunch bars that I used to like but the Company only sells locally, per the web site. Also most of the calories are from nuts but I am trimming fat intake.

 

Is isolated protein just junk or is it bad? I might just start eating some walnuts again, I guess.

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They are available via distributors; I've seen them here, in Los Angeles.

 

Aren't walnuts, nuts? I still think making your own would be better -- you can control the contents.

 

...Is isolated protein just junk or is it bad?

 

Yea...that's the question...or how bad is it? rather. It's pretty much void of nutrition in isolated form; I would like to think raw organic hemp protein powder is -- at least -- more nutritious, or the lesser of evils...would like to...

 

Btw, fruit -- especially dried -- is high in concentrated calories.

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Yes, but, from what I gather, it maintains much more of its nutrients than other isolates -- chlorophyll, vitamins, minerals, etc.

It's mostly the oil which is removed from raw, organic hemp powders, anyway. It is still isolated protein. This is why I like to think it's not as bad...but the question of whether the excess protein is problematic still stand

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This is worse than getting nutritional information from comic books

 

That made me laugh so hard.

 

The educational materials used in most schools have been provided free by the meat, dairy, and egg industries for more than seventy years

 

That reminded me of that one episode of the Simpsons:

 

Seymour Skinner: We can buy real periodic tables instead of these promotional ones from Oscar Meyer.

Edna Krabappel: Who can tell me the atomic weight of bolognium?

Martin: Ooh ... delicious?

Edna Krabappel: Correct. I would also accept snacktacular.

 

 

About the actual article though, I think you can get all the protein you want if you eat just food. Meaning if I want to increase my protein intake if I'm working out harder, I'll just eat more lentils, because now along with the protein, I'm giving my body carbs to help break it down, and vitamins and minerals, not just protein for the body to use on it's own.

Edited by Odidnetne
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I read his blog almost every day too.

 

There's a lot of info on veg vs. animal protein in "The China study" and as I remember it animal protein increases tumor growth while veg. reverses it but (as I remember it) when you add a lot of veg. protein that's not good either.

 

You also have a connection for auto-immune deseases. Protein are built by chained amino acids and our pancreas releases enzyme to break down these proteins to their parts so that they can be built back together to build tissue (think of the proteins like a box of LEGO and your intestines as a 3-year old child). Thing is, some whole chains (that are not/only partially broken down) slips through the intestine wall. These are poisonous (wheather they are from veg. or animal doesn't matter) and gets attacked by the immune system. Since the animal protein is more like our own tissues the immune system might sweep up some of our own healthy tissues too (it can't see the difference). Diabetes type 1 has been linked to dairy in some studies because of this.

 

The bottom line is that protein seems to be more complex than fat and carbs due to the breaking down and building up process. Once we know more about it I believe that the conclusion will be to eat less (no supplements) and stick to veg.

 

You can trust me, I'm always right except when it comes to fashion.

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Yes, but, from what I gather, it maintains much more of its nutrients than other isolates -- chlorophyll, vitamins, minerals, etc.

It's mostly the oil which is removed from raw, organic hemp powders, anyway. It is still isolated protein. This is why I like to think it's not as bad...but the question of whether the excess protein is problematic still stand

 

You sure it is not just ground hemp seeds?

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It's not just ground seeds; the fat (most of it) is removed by cold pressing, yielding a concentrated protein.

 

Offense seems very much the fashionista to me...

 

Just got an answer from Dr. F.: He agrees that the hemp, and rice are better than the animal protein powders if one chooses to use them, "in reasonable amounts." So, no excess (which makes sense since you'll be out of balance) or protein stuffing. He doesn't know of any studies, I assume.

The focus should be more on micronutrients -- vitamins, minerals, etc. -- rather than on macronutrients -- fat, carbs, protein. If you follow basic guidelines, it all seems to fall into place nicely. I stay within 10-15% naturally by focusing on eating nutrient dense foods as recommended, occasionally having a bit more carbs, or fat, protein on any given day. I think obsessing on percentages is a losing situation, but it's good to find out what your percentages are when first figuring out what works best for you.

 

Anyone use a database? I found NutriData helpful to give me a general idea of what I'm eating how many calories, the macronutrients, etc., and how much nutrition I'm getting (those ideals are not based on vegan nutrition or vegan recommendations, but it's still good as a guide). Just enter your food and it gives you all kinds of good info.

I used this for about a week and was done with it. Good if you want to tweak your diet or are curious about the fat content of x-amount of y.

For example, I now know 1/2 an ounce of Brazil nuts is 9.7 g fat. I weighed it and that's about 5 Brazil nuts. This info on nuts has made it easy for me.

 

...

That reminded me of that one episode of the Simpsons:

 

Seymour Skinner: We can buy real periodic tables instead of these promotional ones from Oscar Meyer.

Edna Krabappel: Who can tell me the atomic weight of bolognium?

Martin: Ooh ... delicious?

Edna Krabappel: Correct. I would also accept snacktacular.

 

Bologna is one of the most vile things on this planet! That said, I used to eat it fried

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Haha

Just added Brazil nuts to my daily diet two weeks ago for the selenium (you only need one nut a day to get the daily intake).

I actually checked my multivitamin and looked it up and added foods that had the things listed. Now I only take B-12, DHA and I'm looking for vitamin-D (it's really hard to find without vitamin-A added to it).

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Haha, I did same thing weeks ago, I checked out all the ingredients in all these supplements I though I would like to use and found their natural alternatives, if they don't have natural alternatives than they aren't meant for us and were just created by the supplement industry to make money.

 

The supplement industry is no better than the drug industry, they market all these symptoms and make you believe you have them to push thier products and make profits. I almost become a victim myself.

 

Most fitness magazines are full supplement advertisements, and garbage you have to dig through them to find any worth while info, they are not even worth the money.

 

Hemp seed and Flax seed are a good source of DHA.

Vitamin D, I rely on the sun for that.

 

I take B12 too, but once I go fully organic I might not even need it.

 

The only supplements left in my diet are vitaminmineral, nutritional yeast, and hemp protein. However the the makers of vitaminmineral say vitaminmineral is not a supplement it is a food.

 

vitaminmineral

Ingredients:

 

Land vegetables – whole leaf barley grass, whole leaf wheat grass, nettle leaf, shavegrass (horsetail), alfalfa leaf juice, dandelion leaf juice, kamut grass juice, barley grass juice, oat grass juice, burdock root, broccoli juice, kale juice, spinach juice, parsley juice, carob pod, ginger root, nopal cactus, amla berry

Algaes – spirulina, broken cell wall chlorella

Wildcrafted aquatic vegetables – Icelandic kelp, Nova Scotia dulse

Enzymes – protease, amylase + lipase, cellulase, bromelain, papain, alpha glalctosidase

 

Comprehensive probiotic mixture – beneficial organisms including exclusive NSO (natural soil organisms) and implantable species: A. Agilis, L. Acidophilus, R. Arrhizus, DDS-1 Acidophilus, Bifidus, L. Bulgaricus, A. Brasilienese, B. Brenis, P. Chrysosporium, A. Citreus, L. Casei, P. Calcis, S. Cellulasae, P. Denitrificans, S. Faecium, S. Fradiae, P. Flourescens, A. Globiformis, S. Griseoflavus, P. Gelatic, B. Lipolyticum, A. Luteus, A. Lipoferum, A. Lwolfii, B. Laterosporous, P. Marinoglutinosa, , B. Macerans, P. Nigraclens, P. Putida, L. Plantarum, B. Pumilus, B. Polymyxa, B. Stationis, L. Salivarius, B. Subtilus, B. Succinogenes, A. Simplex, B. Subtilus, S. Thermopolis, A. Terreus, M. Verrucaria, T. Viride., K. Zopfit.

 

 

It just looks like whole punch of stuff put together.

 

 

 

I think if one uses the hemp protein in moderation, like I only use it once a day after working out, everything should be fine. Any normal vegans don't even need protein powders, you can easily get your protein from whole foods. Just 3 servings of quinoa gives you 18 grams of complete protein. The only reason I use the hemp powder is because liquid foods are better than solid food after a workout. Faster digestion and transport of nutrition.

 

Nutritional yeast is very nutritional and tastes like cheese, and I don't see any harms in using it unless I am unaware of something..

 

From Wikipedia:

Nutritional yeast, similar to brewer's yeast, is a nutritional supplement popular with vegans and the health conscious who use it as an ingredient in recipes or simply as a condiment. It is a deactivated yeast, usually Saccharomyces cerevisiae.

 

It is an excellent source of protein and vitamins, especially the B-complex vitamins. It is also naturally low in fat and sodium. Some brands of nutritional yeast, though not all, are fortified with vitamin B12, which is produced separately from bacteria.

 

Nutritional yeast has a nutty, cheesy, creamy flavor which makes it popular as an ingredient in cheese substitutes. It is often used by vegans in place of Parmesan cheese. Another popular use is as a topping for popcorn. Some progressive movie theaters are beginning to offer it along with salt or cayenne pepper as popcorn condiments.

 

It comes in the form of a yellow powder similar in texture to cornmeal, or in flakes, and can usually be found in the bulk aisle of most natural food stores.

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Mmmmmm, Brazil nuts! For veg vitamin D, "Country Life" has one -- do you have that brand where you are?

Which DHA are you taking? I've tried the OmegaZen3 and Dr.F.'s DHA Purity.

Are you getting iodine?

 

Ggreen, Nutritional yeast is not considered a reliable source of B-12 and it is recommended you not forgo this very important vitamin -- it's just too essential to mess with. By the time you are deficient, it can be too late. Not trying to be an alarmist; that's just what the docs say.

Also, on nutritional yeast, you should limit the amounts to 2 TB per day or the equivalent -- in other words, if you have a lot of it one day that's okay as long as you don't consume a lot every day. Joanne Stepaniak, who wrote the Nutritional Yeast Book, warns against too much

Edited by _raVen_
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I take omega-zen DHA. I buy them from the UK even though the shipping is very expensive. I have to keep looking for the vitamin D, I'm sure I will find something otherwise I go to the doctor and get it. We have a state owned monopoly on drugs in Sweden (the current government will hopefully put an end to that) and when I went there to ask they were all like "Well, you could eat fat fish. We don't have an obligation to get vitamin D for you, sorry." A prescription might fix the shitty attitude.

 

GGreen:

There is no DHA (or EPA) in flaxseeds (or hempseeds). The body can manifacture both of them from the shorter chained omega-3 present in the seeds. Thing is, the enzyme that makes the DHA also makes AA from omega-6 and the enzyme "prefer" omega-6. This is why the ratio between w-3 and w-6 is so important. I believe that if one goes on a low-fat, whole food vegan diet one might not need DHA but I'm not quite there yet (even though I'm close).

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Does that omega zen contain EPA too?

 

No. Your body manufactures the EPA from the efa's consumed; there is no vegan EPA.

 

HOWEVER , there are attempts right now being made to make available a vegan EPA.

One called V-PURE (a.k.a. "Algae Pure"is the first and only supposedly vegan EPA; but they have not released their formula, citing "patent pending." So, I would wait for the science before pinning any hope on its efficacy or authenticity . There is controversy as to whether EPA can truly be extracted from Algae.

 

Not sure if it is available at all yet; but it would only be in certain parts of Europe (if I remember correctly a reference to same..)

 

There is a NON-Vegan EPA (fish).

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Does that omega zen contain EPA too?

 

No. Your body manufactures the EPA from the efa's consumed; there is no vegan EPA.

 

Yea I know, I was reading some articles and many suggest supplementing EPA, DHA, and GLA because the body only converts small amounts.

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