Richard Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Hello, I'm in a bit of a sitch. A friend of mine had a baby a few months ago. Initially he was being breast-fed, but pretty soon the mother found it 'inconvenient' and has started using formula. I tried to tell my friend that she should be breast-feeding for at least a year. Also I've told him that there are health risks involved with giving the child non-human milk (cow's milk). He doesn't seem to want to listen. I don't want the kid to grow up getting IBS, asthma and whatever else, and right now he is being forced to have this food which can be dangerous; as a baby he has no choice, so I think it's not right. But I feel like I've come to a dead end. Anyone had this situation before, any advice on how I can get them to listen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belleadonna Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Not sure there is much you can do to make anyone listen who doesn't want to. It seems like people just turn off when I try and talk nutrition with them. So, I don't until they ask. They are also linking milk (non mama's) to type one diabetes. Maybe giving them a book might help but don't be suprised if they tell you to bug off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 I already sent the guy a couple of emails with links to helpeful websites with all that kind of information, with huge lists of what illnesses it can invoke. It mainly just seems like they can't be bothered. It isn't a huge surprise, the baby was a mistake in the first place, and the mother finds it too inconvenient to breast-feed, so they can't care too much. I was thinking that if I could show them a real alternative, a vegan formula, that would at least be better than dairy. I said also that if there is a real medical reason why she can't give breast milk, then she can get human breast milk on the NHS from milk banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belleadonna Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I don't think that there is any good substitute for mamas milk. The babies get certain nutrients that cows milk or any other for that matter can give. You'll just have to hope and pray that the light goes on. Off to the gym. Have a great day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 No there isn't a substitute which is as good as breast milk, but surely there is something which is vegan at least and doesn't carry the health risks that cow's milk does. I haven't been able to find anything though, doh. If I found that, then it would be just as convenient for them to get that, they would have absolutely no reason to avoid that, apart from it being 'weird' or whatever, which might well happen. But if it did, that would be the ultimate brickwall for me and I'd give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Hello, I'm in a bit of a sitch. A friend of mine had a baby a few months ago. Initially he was being breast-fed, but pretty soon the mother found it 'inconvenient' and has started using formula. Based upon my own experiences, I find her statement about breastfeeding being inconvenient just a little confusing. I decided to switch to formula with my first baby at about two weeks because breastfeeding was making my nipples hurt so bad, I couldn't stand it anymore. It felt like someone was dragging a dull razor back and forth across my nipple, and I was desperate for the pain to stop. Not that I actually know what that feels like, but it was the most accurate description I could come up with. So, I packed said baby into the car on a Sunday night and headed for the store. Convenience store at the end of the street had formula, but there was no telling how fresh it was, and they didn't have any bottles. Then I went to the grocery store, and another grocery store. Did I mention it was Sunday night? Everything was closed. By this time, baby was hungry again and crying, so I pulled into a parking spot somewhere to feed her. This was when I realized that it was "inconvenient" for me to do anything but breastfeed. I didn't want to be dependent upon having bottles and formula with me all the time; breasts are impossible to leave behind and the food is always fresh, sanitary, and at the perfect temperature. I didn't want to have to wash bottles or purchase formula, I didn't want to have to wake up in the middle of the night to prepare a bottle, and I certainly didn't want to end up overfeeding because there was just a little bit more left in the bottle that shouldn't be wasted. It really doesn't get much more convenient than that. Not to mention, breastmilk is about 18,000 times healthier than anything else one could feed a baby. And thankfully the pain (guess it was some sort of nipple breaking in period? who knows) subsided after another day or two. Anyway, Richard, if you are able to get your friend to listen, http://www.lalecheleague.org/ is a good resource. They have stacks of info and volunteers that might be able to help her through whatever challenges she's having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 The inconvenience was just that she was going into other rooms when they had company. As far as I know, that's her only reason for not breast-feeding, it isn't anything to do with the physical aspect or pain or anything, unless things have changed since I last saw them. It's a pretty selfish reason for not breast-feeding, it bugs me. She even had a breast pump but couldn't be bothered to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 The inconvenience was just that she was going into other rooms when they had company. And again, I find the "inconvenience" confusing. I breastfed in public all the time. Part of the reason was that I didn't think I should have to go hide somewhere to feed my child. Unless having other people around created distraction for the baby, I had no problem breastfeeding in a restaurant, a crowded mall, airport, family gathering, or anywhere else. And definitely no problem doing it in my own living room, no matter who was visiting, since it was MY living room. The other part of the reason that I breastfed in public was to set an example. It's a perfectly healthy and perfectly natural thing to do, and I wanted for people like your friend, who might've felt uneasy about breastfeeding themselves (and others who might've criticized them for doing so) to see it as natural and normal and accept it. Society is so uptight about things! I'm sure I offended some narrow-minded people in the process, but I figure that's their problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 totally... they're just... dumb I guess. It's frustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odidnetne Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 It's hard to convince people not to do something like taking in dairy sometimes, especially after how many years people have been drinking it, but keep at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 well if she'd just stay breast-feeding the kid for a year like she's meant to, then I'd have a year to prepare something a bit better for then when he starts to go onto solids and stuff. As it is, it's like, right now I have to think of something else! And I can't, there doesn't seem to be anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willpeavy Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 The main health thing I know about young children involves organic v. non-organic rather than dairy v. soy. For example, my wife and son are involved in a playgroup - and the kids in the playgroup raised on standard factory farmed junk all tend to get sick more often. The kids whose families eat organic tend to get sick less often. This isn't scientific evidence, just an observation my wife has made and told me about ... So the best thing I can say is that if the mother doesn't want to breastfeed, at least try to get the baby on some organic formula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 yeah, i heard that organic cow's milk contains less hormone than non-organic. I'm not sure about anything else though. Perhaps after this first year, once the kid is on solids it will be easier to convince them because there will be a great variety of things he could eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 you gotta plant the seeds of change in what they want to listen to. kinda like disguiseing it so they dont know what they're listening to is what they want to ignore.. this involves knowing what kinds of things interest them though. that's what i think atleast.. changing a person's perception is no easy task. edit: here's another idea..instead of suggesting them to do things, as if they are doing something wrong.. try challenging them, by saying stuff like.. "whats so difficult about breastfeeding? are you so lazy you gotta get some other animal to do it for you?" or stuff like that.. thats more hard hitting, in the face type of stuff, than the softy, oh you should maybe consider this.. type if thing..course you could end up not being friends anymore after, lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 I've just tried from a purely logical point of view so far, told them what dairy can do, given them links to fact-based websites about it. I've stopped short of being more confrontational so far, that hasn't worked with anybody I know so far, but I might do it, it is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 About the 'inconvenience": Mothers can still feed breast milk without having to litterally breast feed all the time. I know several mothers who pump their milk, so there is a supply available at all times. So they can get out a bottle of mom's own milk, and even dad can do the feedings. (I think you can freeze breast milk, so that's what they do with the extra.) A colleague of mine (full-time professor) didn't have any trouble feeding breast milk for the first 2 years. She would either feed baby in her office once or twice a day, or have milk available for whoever was taking care of the baby at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 About the 'inconvenience": Mothers can still feed breast milk without having to litterally breast feed all the time. I know several mothers who pump their milk, so there is a supply available at all times. So they can get out a bottle of mom's own milk, and even dad can do the feedings. (I think you can freeze breast milk, so that's what they do with the extra.) A colleague of mine (full-time professor) didn't have any trouble feeding breast milk for the first 2 years. She would either feed baby in her office once or twice a day, or have milk available for whoever was taking care of the baby at the time. I know, I totally agree, and like I said she has a breast pump, but can't even be bothered to use that. They're just selfish I think and thoughtless, they won't even do this for the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 Does anyone have any good resources on where I can get more factual information about dairy specifically? I might be able to get through to my friend, I was just on the phone to him and he did have some concern about it, although he doesn't believe milk is really that bad. I need more info to get him to realise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offense74 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Does anyone have any good resources on where I can get more factual information about dairy specifically? I might be able to get through to my friend, I was just on the phone to him and he did have some concern about it, although he doesn't believe milk is really that bad. I need more info to get him to realiseJohn McDougall have a speech (as in video) on the vegsource website. He's a good speaker so maybe they can stand watching him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 Hey thanks, that was a good video. I just talked to him some more on the phone... it is depressing. I asked him if he has a book on how to stimulate your child's brain, how to kick-start language development etc. He said he doesn't, and I said he could maybe consider it, so he'd get some specific ideas to make sure his kid develops his brain early and healthily. He said he won't do it because he's only ever read 1 book IE he doesn't like books. He then 'joked' that that's the mother's job. I feel like there's just no point with these two, the kid is just stuck with them unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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