Question about non Vegan food.

[Rawj]

A good friend/roommate of mine seems pretty interested in at least eating products that are from animals that are treated well (as well as they can be when they are still getting killed). She is pretty health and environment conscious and has been watching videos on my profile (myspace) and visiting the pages of vegetarians/Vegans that are on my friends list and reading info and watching videos. She always asks me questions and I explain stuff to her. Occasionally I just bring stuff up too (Today I mentioned the link between osteoporosis and countries with high intakes of dairy and the fact that the % of fat in milk is based on weight and not volume. She doesn't drink dairy milk, but her kids do (she eats cheese and ice cream and things with dairy in them though. After we had that talk she told the kids that they are going to most likely going to cut out the dairy milk and stick to soy milk (Right now they drink about 50% of both))). Today one of my bulletins made her literally cry and even caused her to call her mom (who used to be vegetarian). She makes comments like "I will be Vegan before you know it” and asks about alternatives to things. She has 4 kids so if she were to make the conversion then they would too as she feeds them basically what she eats. She does eat a lot of veggies and most of the time already eats things like garden burgers instead of hamburgers. Currently she wants to try and find things that are cruelty free as possible. That means cage free/free range/etc. I explained to her that most of the time that is a marketing gimmick (especially with factory farms). So she was curious if I knew of any farms where those things are less about marketing (the animals actually get to roam and they aren't abused). I was wondering if anyone on here knew of any such places? We are in the Northwest (Salem, Oregon) so the close to here as possible the better. I have another friend who would also benefit from this (actually happens to be my roommates ex husband ). He is also very aware about environment concerns and has admitted he knows that the animals are treated bad, but just says he doesn't think about it when he eats it. He said that I got him to start reading ingredients and tries to avoid some things now.

 

So any help would be nice .

[flanders77]

Hey Rawj!

Great to see that you support your friends in finding a better and less cruel way of living/eating!

i think you should not waste any energy and time in finding places that treat the animals they "use" and kill fro your friend. Instead help her to make the change to a completely vegan diet. I am sure she will be open to any help you provide her to move in this direction.

 

Keep us updated!

[veganmadre]

She has a complexity of things she is dealing with right now. Transitioning her child to a vegan diet is going to be something of concern for her as well. It's hard enough making the soley personal decision. How old are her children?

 

As for "less" cruel options, I have no idea but, I agree that encouraging her to jump into veganism is a the best solution. What is it that she "needs" eggs for? Is it that she likes scrambled eggs? Introduce her to strambled tofu. Soymilk is an essentially equal exchange for milk, in my opinion. Desserts can be made sans eggs. Follow your Heart vegan cheese has great melty qualities. Earth Balance is trans fat free and fantastically tasty. What are her "crutch foods" - what are the foods she feels as though she can't give up? I'm willing to bet that I have a recipe to replace it and I'd be happy to share!

 

Same for her children - what do they love and fear losing with a vegan diet?

[andgbr]

for a less-cruel option... try tofu-meat sauteed on olive oil and soy sauce. really simple, cheap and satisfying to eat.

 

-----

 

Ok, forget my silly joke...

Tell him to try eating less animal products.. every week eating less and less animals and more veggies.. after a few weeks to go completely vegan...

I think that's a better way.. forget about 'organic meat', just tell him to change his diet slowly.. eat less animal product as possible, and decrease that amount everyday..

[Sam801]

i went vegetarian for a few months before going vegan, so meat was the first to go, with all the mock options i didnt miss it at all. i really reccomend vegetarianism as a first step so that you don't feel to overwhelmed and give up. some people are able to just go vegan with no sweat, but some people really have alot to learn before they're comfortable with it.

 

over time i started cutting other stuff out, milk and eggs are pretty easy to ditch in general. cheese seems to be a pretty big deal for alot of people, i like the toffuti presliced stuff for sandwhiches and stuff, melts great and tastes really good. vegan gourmet block cheese is awesome for stuff like pizza... it all came overtime to where i was only letting the little stuff get by so i felt totally comfortable cuting the crap.

 

its good to have a mentor(or a few of them) when making the switch to keep you informed about stuff. i have a friend right now that i've helped convert from ovo lacto vegetarian to vegan in the past month or so. it feels great to help people switch.

[Rawj]

She isn't just going to jump in. The only way it will happen is if she transitions slowly,trust me. She already uses Earth balance and uses tofu for things. She also drinks soy milk and sometimes eats non dairy ice cream and pretty much always eats dairy free dark chocolate. I went from omni to Vegan overnight,but that doesn't work for everyone. I am not asking for Vegan help ( I consider myself very knowledgable about Veganism and can answer her questions about that and talk to her about how it is better and the bad things about eating meat) I am just wondering if anyone can help with my original question in order to help her transition. She seems to already be slowly changing,but she wants to try and consume meat that was treated better while it happens.

 

Since it is happening slowly I would also prefer the animals that are being forced to die at least live in better conditions before dying. I do not consider killing them humane,but even as a Vegan I know there are smaller farms where they treat them well right up until death. When I lived in Ohio I was on such farms where they had plenty of space,there seemed to be no abuse, they actually put them unconcious before slaughtering them, and so on.

 

I prefer no death at all,but when there current choices are animals who are crammed and abused and then killed or not crammed not abused and then killed I will go with the second choice until I can get to the best one where there is no cramming no abusing and no killing.

[veganmadre]

Well, good to know she has excellent vegan guidance. My offer is retracted as it is apparently unnecessary. I'm not from Oregon so I can't help with your original question but plenty of people are the forum are so...

[Kon]

If she wants to eat meat, why is she eating vegan foods?

either she wants to eat healthy or she doesn't, simple as that. Especially if her biggest concern is over morals and animal treatment. It is hypocritical to think that the way animals are treated is wrong, but killing is ok, and its ok if she eats it if she eats other good things along with it.

I think she is thinknig she is doing good by only doing a little and thinknig that this little bit is enough, but if she truelly wants to change and work towards something better she should go the entire way not just partly.

So she needs to make a decision on what she is going to do if she wants to do something about it and stop sitting on the fence.

The simple fact that she hasn't given up meat shows that she feels some sort of need for it, either for comfort or for some other reasons. Changing is a tough thing to do as it is often times not known how things will turn out once changes are made, so there is a level of fear here. The simple fact though that other people are doing without meat is proof that there is a place for her once she decides to change, and that is it feasible to survive without it and live comfortably without it.

She seems interested in changing, but she needs to follow through with it, and for her to do this, she needs to conquer the fears attached to the journey which will get her there. I suggest helping her bring light to those reasons why she hasn't already attempted the change, and help her see how to overcome them.

course, this is my opinion, so take what you want from it.

[veggymeggy]

If she wants to eat meat, why is she eating vegan foods?

either she wants to eat healthy or she doesn't, simple as that. Especially if her biggest concern is over morals and animal treatment. It is hypocritical to think that the way animals are treated is wrong, but killing is ok, and its ok if she eats it if she eats other good things along with it.

I think she is thinknig she is doing good by only doing a little and thinknig that this little bit is enough, but if she truelly wants to change and work towards something better she should go the entire way not just partly.

So she needs to make a decision on what she is going to do if she wants to do something about it and stop sitting on the fence.

The simple fact that she hasn't given up meat shows that she feels some sort of need for it, either for comfort or for some other reasons. Changing is a tough thing to do as it is often times not known how things will turn out once changes are made, so there is a level of fear here. The simple fact though that other people are doing without meat is proof that there is a place for her once she decides to change, and that is it feasible to survive without it and live comfortably without it.

She seems interested in changing, but she needs to follow through with it, and for her to do this, she needs to conquer the fears attached to the journey which will get her there. I suggest helping her bring light to those reasons why she hasn't already attempted the change, and help her see how to overcome them.

course, this is my opinion, so take what you want from it.

 

Change is a process....it involves multiple steps, and for most, periods of relapse and starting over. I think it's very condescending to just assume everyone can make a humongous life and dietary change overnight and never look back - ESPECIALLY when children are involved.

She sounds like she's hovering between action and preparation, and I say good for her, and good to you rawj for supporting her.

I can't think specifically of any brand/farms that fit what you're looking for, but I'll bet a quick google search could come up with some. I know they exist, locally too, I just don't know what they are, sorry.

 

P.S. - I'm referencing the transtheoretical model of change when I say 'preparation' and 'action'. We use it a lot to describe people when doing nutrition counseling.

[Kon]

well, in my opinion, the majority of people CAN make changes, and if they want to but don't, it is because they have issues in their head which need to be resolved.

You can have all the information in the world, but still you may not make the change.

[Sam801]

even small time farms that may treat there animals pretty well, in order to sell them to the public, they need to go through the same cruel slaughter process.