Stop the Seal Hunt

[finbarrio]

IFAW's new "300,000 actions for 300,000 seals" microsite:

 

http://www.stopthesealhunt.com/site/c.ihKPIWPCIqE/b.2558507/k.B299/Stop_the_Seal_Hunt__300000_Actions_for_300000_Seals.htm

[Gaia]

I saw a PBS, or was it the Canadian CBC channel, in which they were interviewing the Canadians who actually go out and kill the seals. They start off showing you the humble little town, complete with the fish drying on strings strung across their porches, next to the laundry (so no washing machines or dryers), and then they tell their side of the story. They picked a 50 year old guy who has been killing seals all his life, and it is his livelihood, and frankly they put it out there that it was the town's livelihood, and without the seals they would perish. Definitely a tear jerker on the Canadian's side of the story, just as unbiased as what we see from the animal rights activists.

 

I am not so upset anymore by seeing these things. I see both sides. But what I don't understand is why everybody gets all hostile and starts yelling and collecting money to stop them. What do the animal rights activists do with all that money? Do they pay people to go out and try to stop the seal killers? Do they buy up land as sanctuaries? How about paying these people not to kill them?

 

Why doesn't someone come up with an idea of giving this town a different livelihood? And don't say "How about cutting down all this great timber you have here?" Then again, if the pelts are that expensive when sewn into coats, what do these old timers get for the seal pelts, cause they should afford a washer and a dryer. Maybe they forgot to mention that there is a big corporation that collects all these pelts and pays them very little for their work? Do the animal rights activists go after the corporations? Seems to me if you go to the source, the ones who kill for just the money in order to live a life, should be compensated some how, and then the supply will dry up, and the demand will die out also.

 

Wonder what the real truth is, and then how can we solve it so all involved are content. One sided arguments can never be fully solved.

[Matt]

That's true. The issue that is facing so many cultures is that they will not only change their livelihood, but their cultural lifestyle if they want to survive. Global warming is a big issue as well, and for example in the United States, people are at some point going to have to give up their cars. Not because there aren't zero emission alternatives, but because their production will still produce the toxins we don't need and there won't be any inexpensive, practical way of doing it that still won't hurt the environment.

 

I'm not really preventing a solution to this particular issue, but I agree that everyone will need to adapt in some fashion in the near future to their convenient and traditional lifestyles if we all are to survive, the seal hunt is no exception.

[compassionategirl]

I saw a PBS, or was it the Canadian CBC channel, in which they were interviewing the Canadians who actually go out and kill the seals. They start off showing you the humble little town, complete with the fish drying on strings strung across their porches, next to the laundry (so no washing machines or dryers), and then they tell their side of the story. They picked a 50 year old guy who has been killing seals all his life, and it is his livelihood, and frankly they put it out there that it was the town's livelihood, and without the seals they would perish. Definitely a tear jerker on the Canadian's side of the story, just as unbiased as what we see from the animal rights activists.

 

I am not so upset anymore by seeing these things. I see both sides. But what I don't understand is why everybody gets all hostile and starts yelling and collecting money to stop them. What do the animal rights activists do with all that money? Do they pay people to go out and try to stop the seal killers? Do they buy up land as sanctuaries? How about paying these people not to kill them?

 

Why doesn't someone come up with an idea of giving this town a different livelihood? And don't say "How about cutting down all this great timber you have here?" Then again, if the pelts are that expensive when sewn into coats, what do these old timers get for the seal pelts, cause they should afford a washer and a dryer. Maybe they forgot to mention that there is a big corporation that collects all these pelts and pays them very little for their work? Do the animal rights activists go after the corporations? Seems to me if you go to the source, the ones who kill for just the money in order to live a life, should be compensated some how, and then the supply will dry up, and the demand will die out also.

 

Wonder what the real truth is, and then how can we solve it so all involved are content. One sided arguments can never be fully solved.

 

 

Okay, guys, stop emailing me and asking me to "set people straight" about animal issues on this forum and how it isnt the same without me here (you know who you are). . I appreciate your kind support and am flattered that people loved my posts so much and miss me, but the administration chose Barrylove (and his solid and extensive contribution to the forum ) over me with no apologies, (yep, many people are probably asking "barry who?" ) so I have moved on. Instead, I encourage you all to educate posters on this forum regarding issues about which they seem to be misinformed. Just email me what you need and I can send you the info and you can post it here yourselves. But I'd rather not be signed on here, unless I am posting about something urgently time sensitive to help animals. Okay, so, about the seal hunt and what activists are doing...

 

 

You asked the following question, Gaia and Matt:

 

"But what I don't understand is why everybody gets all hostile and starts yelling and collecting money to stop them. "What do the animal rights activists do with all that money? Do they pay people to go out and try to stop the seal killers? Do they buy up land as sanctuaries? How about paying these people not to kill them? Why doesn't someone come up with an idea of giving this town a different livelihood?"

 

Answer: The movement against the seal hunt, and in particular, Paul Watson and his group the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, HAS offered alternatives to brutally murdering baby seals. Unfortunately, the reality that is NOT shown on programs like the one you watched Gaia is that these sealers and their official Sealing Association, have rejected the alternatives with scorn and vitriol. Does that sound like a bunch of poor, decent folks who hate the brutal blood bath that is the seal hunt but murder baby seals with remorse and only because they have no economic choice?

 

 

 

I will provide you with two examples that come to me off the top of my head. The Sea Shepherd had, several years, ago planned and executed the "seal brushing project" which was a no kill alternative to the seal hunt. This alternative to the blood bath which the Sea Shepherd proposed to the killers involved the utilization of naturally molted seal hairs. Paul Watson did not stop there. He even secured a market for this and was in a position to hire 300 people to start when the government pulled their permits after rioting sealers in the Magdalens attacked Watson and his crew, saying that it was a "faggoty idea and seals were meant to be clubbed not coddled."

 

 

And by the way, the riotting sealing thugs (yup, much like that poor old man you saw on the program ) who attacked Watson and his crew for proposing these alternatives, beat Watson severely, broke cameras and threatened people's lives. Read Mickey Dwyer's book. He's a sealer who wrote "Over the Side, Mickey." Even he describes what they do as barbaric.

 

Furthermore, understand that the seal slaughter is subsidized. In other words it's a glorified welfare system. If the government paid the sealers not to kill seals, it would cost the Canadian tax-payers less. As a Canadian taxpayer, (let alone as an ethical vegan) I can tell you that I am sickened by the seal hunt.

 

Let me provide you with a second more recent example: Sea Shepherd member Cathy Kangas wrote the Government of Canada the following letter, offering the government $16 million dollars to stop the hunt among other things. Do you know how the Canadian Government, with the encouragement of the Sealing Association, responded to this very generous offer to help the "poor sealers" find a less bloody and brutal way of life? THEY NOT ONLY DID NOT STOP THE HUNT, BUT THEY RAISED THE NUMBER OF BABY SEALS TO BE KILLED!

 

Still feel sympathy for these barbaric sealers?

 

Below is Kangas's proposal to the Government of Canada and to the sealing association. Please read it, again, it will answer your questions.

 

CATHY KANGAS

106 CLEARVIEW LANE

NEW CANAAN, CONNECTICUT 06840

 

March 21, 2006

 

The Right Honourable Stephen Harper

Office of the Prime Minister

80 Wellington Street

Ottawa, Ontario

Canada, KIA O42

 

Dear Prime Minister Harper:

 

Your government has repeatedly stated that the $16 million realized from

the slaughter of Canadian baby seals is vital to the fishing communities of

the Gulf of St. Lawrence and Newfoundland. If you stop this year's hunt

immediately, we will provide you with this $16 million to be distributed at

your discretion.

 

Furthermore, we will work with your government to institute a program to buy back the fishing licenses and begin a program of eco-tourism in Northeastern Canada, which would replace the seal hunt. Through this program, high-end tour companies, such as Abercrombie & Kent, would provide opportunities for its customers to see the beautiful spectacle of seals giving birth on the ice floes. This could be a whole new source of revenue for the region and fishermen could serve as Park Rangers showing the seals and protecting them.

 

The eyes of the world will be on Canada when the seal hunt begins. We are providing you with an alternative to what Paul McCartney called "a stain on the character of the Canadian people." If this is really simply an economic problem, then take our offer. The money is being raised from animal protection groups worldwide including The Humane Society of the United States, which alone has more than 9 million members.

 

We are asking you to negotiate with us in good faith. If we do not hear

back from your office before the start of the hunt, we will have no other

choice than to take this offer to the Canadian people and worldwide media. We are providing the Canadian government with an opportunity to end the seal hunt and provide fishermen with an alternative livelihood. We look forward to discussing this offer with you. I can be reached through my assistant Diane

Jacobitti at (941) 929-7435.

 

Sincerely,

 

Cathy Kangas

 

 

-----

The sad thing is that Kangas did in fact take this offer and the government's rejection of it to the Canadian (and international media); yet, I am not aware of a single news channel or newspaper that printed this side of the story. Instead, the media continues to make it sound like the sealers' claims are accurate and true - oh those poor sealers, being villified by those pesky ar activists who keep giving them alternatives.

 

The bottom line, however, is that the seal hunt is NOT necessary, as sealers and those who support them would have you believe. Alternatives have been offered and proposed, money has been offered. But of course even vegans are not aware of those details because the government of canada and newfoundland does NOT want the world to hear about those details. They would rather make themselves out to be destitute decent communities who murder baby seals not because they LIKE to, but because they currently have no other choice.

 

And that, as you now know, is categorically not true. I hope that helps.

 

Finn, thanks for bringing the seal hunt issue back into discussion and into mind.

Edited March 24, 2007 by compassionategirl

[Gaia]

OK, so you have asked them nicely (although I don't know how you would talk to someone nicely about not killing something they consider their property, and not a living being that has the right to a life as any other living thing) and offered them money (just like are property again, but from the other side) and they have refused it (although that sounds a little messed up to me - like the whole story is not being told). So why would I want to put more money into the campaign that doesn't seem to be working? Especially since they have already refused the amount of money given? Is it to fund a group that goes out and does what the rioting sealers did to Watson? Is it fighting fire with fire theme?

 

Sounds like the government again is not representative of all the people. Sounds like an upset fraction group of people (the sealers) are in charge on the beach. It also sounds more like the sealers have some pretty hurt egos that aren't going to go away with some money. Pride is probably the source of the rejection of the animal rights activists' offer. The deal has to come from somebody else. Or somebody has to apologize and make it really sincere. Or was the 16 million a little less than what they were actually going to bring in for that year, and they upped the price. This could be thought of as extortion, and we refused to pay more. And what are they to do next year? Are we to keep giving it to them each year?

 

That naturally molten seal hairs sounds like a great approach. I don't understand why the government pulled their permits AFTER rioting sealers in the Magdalens attached Watson and his crew for their faggoty ideas. Again, sounds like a clash of ego and pride again. We are calling them Barabrians (and perhaps if this way of getting the seal hairs (which I am pretty sure is a process) does do the trick, they will be out of their EASY way of getting the seal pelts) and they are calling the animal rights activists faggots. Did the government have to pull their permits because the workers couldn't just keep quiet and wait for the seal rioters to vent? Did they have to stop an all out riot between the sealers and the activists by pulling the activist's permits and get them off the beach? All this name yelling and ego clashing will keep it going for sure. Sounds like Ireland, or any other warring group fraction, except it is with people. Hate keeps people going and going.

 

My point is that there is always two sides to the stories that we hear. And each side has justice on its side as always (such as God is helping both of us to win). It will be the quiet and steady/constant supply and demand from a private sector (with no political or interest group ties) that will triumph in the end. My case of the vegan/vegetarians options in the stores now, and even with organics/non GMO's produce, and how the supply and demand have increased. And how now even the supermarkets are now supplying the organics and vegetarian options, making the little health food store owners struggling as they thought they had the monopoly. All this from educating the people and making their consumer purchases heard loudly.

[finbarrio]

Hi Gaia-

I definitely can't blame you for asking all those questions after watching that (very biased) PBS special. I think CG has answered a lot of the questions, but I just wanted to point out a couple things:

1. The seal hunt is horrifically cruel. Virtually any scientist who has observed the hunt has found that many of the animals are skinned alive.

2. I believe that animal rights/welfare groups will win this fight, because they are right. The donations made to those groups have helped create an incredible amount of awareness on the issue. The US has banned the import of seal parts since the 80's, and European countries have recently started doing the same. There is definitely progress being made.

3. The sealers are already being paid subsidies because the market can't support the industry - but there is a greater moral question here - should an industry that is based on cruelty be subsidized and allowed to persist? Factory farming, circuses that use animals, zoos, rodeos, animal-testing facilities, race tracks, etc.. - they all employ people. Do you think those cruel industries should continue just because the people need jobs?

 

Where I live, on Cape Cod, whales used to be killed in HUGE numbers. But then "Save the Whales" came around, and now commercial whaling is illegal in the states. However, whale watching is a billion dollar industry around the world. There is a man in Toga who used to hunt whales, now he runs a whale watching boat. Times change, and people change with them.

 

I think our world will continue to evolve to one that is more compassionate to all beings, and as it does, new industries will pop up. You cited how vegetarian options are popping up all over. Eventually (hopefully) that will spell the doom for some factory farms that refuse to adapt to this new market. And the people who work there will lose their jobs. But there will probably be an organic veggie farm down the street that will need help. That's what I call progress!

[Gaia]

Yes, you are right finbarrio.

 

With some people you can change with education and they can see the other side's point of view (may the humane one win in the end).

 

But with some they can't see the change, or don't want to see the change. Those are the ones that I guess you have to use the fight fire with fire theme to get the change to occur.

 

I personally don't like to see violence used in either side to justify their cause.

 

Plus, I already bought one of those darling "do something" seal tshirts from Wildlife Works to help the Humane Society.