Selenium now...serenity later...

[oregonisaac]

I was on www.fitday.com (really neat site) plugging in my daily food to see how my nutrition worked out, and I had zero intake of selenium. After looking into it and seeing the links to both physical and mental health (immune strength and anxiety issues) I decided to look for selenium in a raw whole food form.

 

I found it in Brazil nuts!

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/selenium.asp

 

By my calculations, if 26 brazil nuts weighs in at 4 ounces (I measured at the store today) and you get 780% of your RDA in 1 ounce, that means you need approximately .8 brazil nuts a day to get your selenium.

 

So for now instead of having to supplement, I bought a lb of them in bulk (organic and raw) for $8 and that should last me a couple months!

[pamela]

I think this might be a flaw of fitday's. I noticed that many days I had almost no selenium intake, presumably. However, when I looked up what contains selenium, it seemed as though I should have been getting plenty.

 

But hey, it's a good reason to eat brazil nuts.

 

I was on www.fitday.com (really neat site) plugging in my daily food to see how my nutrition worked out, and I had zero intake of selenium.

[offense74]

Yeah, I know abou this. I checked the things that *might* be trouble for vegans (and others) and found out the following:

 

b12 -> Needs to be eaten in an unnatural state (pill or added to something).

zink -> Might be trouble although vegans seems to do allright even though it's low. It can be added via a multi. Some mushrooms also have some.

iodine -> Kelp or other seaweed. Spirulina and chlorella doesn't work. Salt might work also but then again that's bad for you.

selenium -> Brazil nuts.

Vitamin D -> If the sun is broken parts of the year you need to find a way to get the D. Fortified stuff or pills might work. There are extremely small amounts in mushrooms.

Iron -> Doesn't seem to be the problem alot of people make it up to be. It's overhyped. Eat your greens and you will be ok.

Calcium -> This one is all bullshit. I've never heard of a person who eats enough of whatever and get calcium deficiency. McDougall on this and other things dairy related

 

The biggest one is of course b12. The reason for this is that it usually doesn't give you any warnings. You're running a marathon one day and feel awesome and the next day you get a heart attack and finds out that you're arteries are severley damaged because of elevated homocystein. Gives me the creeps

[veggymeggy]

 

The biggest one is of course b12. The reason for this is that it usually doesn't give you any warnings. You're running a marathon one day and feel awesome and the next day you get a heart attack and finds out that you're arteries are severley damaged because of elevated homocystein. Gives me the creeps

 

That, and neurological damage. Cardiac damage can be hidden (or delayed, if you will) for a long time by folate, which most vegans wil get plenty of... The neurological damage of a severe B12 deficiency is a whole other ball game on top of that!

[pratt]

one teaspoon of spirulina has 33% of the USRDA of B-12.

[offense74]

one teaspoon of spirulina has 33% of the USRDA of B-12.

Nope, it's an inactive form of B-12. It can even hinder the uptake of real b-12. The manifacturers of the stuff saays otherwise but the published, peer-reviewed studies says it's inactive. Sorry

[pratt]

good to know, thanks

[michael]

Nope, it's an inactive form of B-12. It can even hinder the uptake of real b-12. The manifacturers of the stuff saays otherwise but the published, peer-reviewed studies says it's inactive.

 

No, that's not right. This myth is being perpetuated by those trying to create a disinformation campaign against viable sources of vegetarian based bioavailable B-12.

 

From the Kushi Institute in The Netherlands:

 

Seaweeds and Vitamin B-12 - In a study of the vitamin B-12 status of long-time vegans, Finnish nutritionists reported that vegans who ate nori and/or chlorella seaweeds had B-12 concentrations in their blood twice as high as those not eating seaweeds. "We conclude that some seaweeds consumed in large amounts can supply adequate amounts of bioavailable vitamin B-12," the researchers stated.

 

Source: A. L. Rauma et al., "Vitamin B-12 Status of Long-Term Adherents of a Strict Uncooked Vegan Diet," Journal of Nutrition 125(10)2511-5, 1995.

[offense74]

From the vegan society website:

"In over 60 years of vegan experimentation only B12 fortified foods and B12 supplements have proven themselves as reliable sources of B12, capable of supporting optimal health. It is very important that all vegans ensure they have an adequate intake of B12, from fortified foods or supplements. This will benefit our health and help to attract others to veganism through our example."

 

and

 

"Claimed sources of B12 that have been shown through direct studies of vegans to be inadequate include human gut bacteria, spirulina, dried nori, barley grass and most other seaweeds. Several studies of raw food vegans have shown that raw food offers no special protection."

 

Again, it's all about who one trusts

[michael]

Well, I trust the researchers publishing in the Journal of Nutrition. There are several other scientific studies that refute the position of the Vegan Society, like this one appearing in the Journal of Nutritional Science, dated Oct, 2002:

 

"Substantial amounts of vitamin B12 were found in some edible algae (green and purple lavers) and algal health food (chlorella and spirulina tablets) using the Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. lactis ATCC7830 microbiological assay method. Corrinoid-compounds were purified and characterized from these algae to clarify the chemical properties and bioavailability of the algal vitamin B12. True vitamin B12 is the predominate cobamide of green and purple lavers and chlorella tablets. Feeding the purple laver to vitamin B12-deficient rats significantly improved the vitamin B12 status. The results suggest that algal vitamin B12 is a bioavailable source for mammals."

[veggymeggy]

Nope, it's an inactive form of B-12. It can even hinder the uptake of real b-12. The manifacturers of the stuff saays otherwise but the published, peer-reviewed studies says it's inactive.

 

No, that's not right. This myth is being perpetuated by those trying to create a disinformation campaign against viable sources of vegetarian based bioavailable B-12.

 

From the Kushi Institute in The Netherlands:

 

Seaweeds and Vitamin B-12 - In a study of the vitamin B-12 status of long-time vegans, Finnish nutritionists reported that vegans who ate nori and/or chlorella seaweeds had B-12 concentrations in their blood twice as high as those not eating seaweeds. "We conclude that some seaweeds consumed in large amounts can supply adequate amounts of bioavailable vitamin B-12," the researchers stated.

 

Source: A. L. Rauma et al., "Vitamin B-12 Status of Long-Term Adherents of a Strict Uncooked Vegan Diet," Journal of Nutrition 125(10)2511-5, 1995.

Holy crap, a citation...I almost wet myself. Way to be.

[offense74]

Well, I trust the researchers publishing in the Journal of Nutrition. There are several other scientific studies that refute the position of the Vegan Society, like this one appearing in the Journal of Nutritional Science, dated Oct, 2002:

 

"Substantial amounts of vitamin B12 were found in some edible algae (green and purple lavers) and algal health food (chlorella and spirulina tablets) using the Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. lactis ATCC7830 microbiological assay method. Corrinoid-compounds were purified and characterized from these algae to clarify the chemical properties and bioavailability of the algal vitamin B12. True vitamin B12 is the predominate cobamide of green and purple lavers and chlorella tablets. Feeding the purple laver to vitamin B12-deficient rats significantly improved the vitamin B12 status. The results suggest that algal vitamin B12 is a bioavailable source for mammals."

 

How was it tested? It all depends on what kind of measurment they're using. If I were to conduct a study at the same time as I was selling spirulina it would be easy to fix this with the wrong type of measurement as stated here.

 

"Seaweeds Can Falsely Inflate sB12 Levels

 

Methods for determining sB12 levels rarely, if ever, distinguish between B12 and all inactive B12 analogues. Seaweeds contain a variety of inactive B12 analogues. Someone who is eating large amounts of seaweed may have serum B12 levels well above normal, but much of it could be inactive B12 analogues that may actually be interfering with B12 function (see the section Inactive Analogues: Worse than Useless in Vitamin B12 Analogues).

"

[DV]

Getting back to sources of selenium for raw foodists:

 

Soil in North America is selenium rich and wheat/oats absorb selenium. I would suggest sprouting North American wheat berries or oat groats as another source of selenium. One slice of whole wheat bread or one cup of oatmeal will give you 1/3 to 1/2 the RDA of selenium.

 

There really needs to be a raw foodist nutritional guide, similar to the "Becoming Vegan" for vegans.

[michael]

From "Simply Nutrition":

 

"There is research to show that edible forms of green and purple algae do actually contain bioavailable B12 or true vitamin B12. The research from Japan found purple laver (an algae) contained 5 types of biologically active vitamin B12 compounds (cyano-, hydroxo-, sulfito-, adenosyl- and methylcobalamin), as well as the B12 coezymes (adenosyl- and methylcobalamin). Cyanocobalamin is the active form of B12 that is often used in B12 supplements. This same research (published in the British Journal of Nutrition in 2001) showed that algal vitamin B12 is indeed a bioavailable source for mammals, and was sufficient to lift B12 status in B12-deficient rats."

[offense74]

Vitamin B-12 from algae appears not to be bioavailable.Dagnelie PC, van Staveren WA, van den Berg H.

Department of Human Nutrition, Wageningen Agricultural University, The Netherlands.

 

The effect of algae (nori and spirulina) and fermented plant foods on the hematological status of vitamin B-12-deficient children was evaluated. Although rising plasma vitamin B-12 concentrations in children consuming only plant foods (0.1-2.7 micrograms vitamin B-12/d) indicated that the vitamin B-12 was absorbed, elevated baseline values of mean corpuscular volume (MCV) further deteriorated. In contrast, MCV improved in children receiving fish containing 0.15-0.5 microgram vitamin B-12/d or a vitamin B-12 supplement. Further studies on the specificity of current vitamin B-12 assays are warranted. It seems unjustified to advocate algae and other plant foods as a safe source of vitamin B-12 because its bioavailability is questionable.

 

PMID: 2000824 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

We can go on doing this for quite awhile. Thing is, there is one safe option and one that might be safe. Health nuts have dropped off dead for alot of stupid reasons, not getting b12 being one of them.

[veggymeggy]

It's too early in the morning for me to feel like searching for sources, but to toss in my two cents re:B12, the current consensus among dieticians is that plant sourced B12 is not bio-available. If enough evidence comes out saying the oppositie, opinion will swing, but at the moment the majority of studies suggest that seaweed, etc will not provide B12 in forms humans can use, and if one does not have an animal source of dietary B12, then supplements may be in order.

[oregonisaac]

Getting back to sources of selenium for raw foodists:

 

Soil in North America is selenium rich and wheat/oats absorb selenium. I would suggest sprouting North American wheat berries or oat groats as another source of selenium. One slice of whole wheat bread or one cup of oatmeal will give you 1/3 to 1/2 the RDA of selenium.

 

There really needs to be a raw foodist nutritional guide, similar to the "Becoming Vegan" for vegans.

 

I have actually been thinking about adding some raw oatmeal to my diet as a hearty brunch. I will look into this.

[michael]

animal source of dietary B12

 

B-12 has nothing to do with animals--it's derived rather from algal/bacterial sources.

[oregonisaac]

animal source of dietary B12

 

B-12 has nothing to do with animals--it's derived rather from algal/bacterial sources.

 

Wow, impressive ability to make an argument out of things. Perhaps you should be a lawyer.

 

Cheers.

[veggymeggy]

animal source of dietary B12

 

B-12 has nothing to do with animals--it's derived rather from algal/bacterial sources.

Yeah, bacteria creates the b-12, but you don't go out and eat bacteria. The reason most of the world doesn't have a B12 deficiency is because most people get it in the meat that they eat. Good effort on obfuscating the point though.