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Michael Vick - Dog Fighter


robert
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I met a woman in Texas who was involved with PeTA activity...I saw her in a pizza place (I suspect eating a meat topped pizza-from what I saw, but never was quite sure)...anyway...she approached me and told me...in that crowded restaraunt, with people all around us...that Ingrid Newkirk had called her personally and asked if she would do some ALF activity and then asked if I would be interested...I immediately ceased contact with her...she was one of 3 things...an idiot, a liar, or undercover agent...she did not look like the typical activist I was accustomed to dealing with...I suspect she was lying to boost her "street cred" in the movement...I sincerely doubt Ms. Newkirk would have called her on public phone lines to ask her to do to do illegal ALF activity...thats not the way it works...I hear...and I suspect the president of PeTA would be wiser...anyways...I suspect potter is one of those 3, if not all...

Concerning infiltrators...my father is in law enforcement, he told me about his experience several years ago at the Savannah, GA G-8 meeting in 2004...he worked in riot control...they expected a protestor situation like that which happened in Seattle previously...but due to the war far fewer protestors turned up...he only recalled a few dozen arrests...HERES THE BEST PART...of those several dozen, nearly half were undercover agents...either they were arresting innocent people OR the undercover agents were creating disturbances to give the movement a bad rep...my dad thought this was hilarious...I find it deeply disturbing...

I'm not saying anyones an agent sabateur...but just know that they are out there! FYI

And that , by the way, is why I know law enforcement pick and choose who they prosecute...especially in the South...

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I too worked for SPCA...I find it VERY hard to believe they would risk your life for undercover operations...especially in Philly... a friend of mine's house was burned down because his dad had took 2 pitbulls from some guys (who no doubt were fighting them) they saw it as a stolen investment...THose kind of people don't take kindly to narcs either...

Also the SPCA lack the jurisdiction...ESPECIALLY if they lacked a law enforcement division...I also find it hard to believe that you wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb...I would find it very hard to remain calm and not express my utter for the situation...law enforcement agents can pull it off, the have the training...but your story sounds very suspect...sorry...I would almost believe it if soo much didn't make sense...

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I should clarify...

I don't think potter is an agent provocateur...I only brought up that subject in reference to the "activist" who approached me after dealing with her for only a few short months...so...potter's not a cop out to link animal activists to terrorism...but that still leaves options 1 & 2...

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I don't think it was a life or death scenario. I never felt unsafe there and being 320lbs probably had a lot to do with it. If I were a puny kid I don't think they'd even consider me for anything like this. I wasn't acting as an officer...I had no badge...no gun...no nothing. I was there to point out people denying they were there I wasn't gonna arrest anyone or even speak in court.

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Like I said...or actually, like the PSPCA explained to me...they do not use non-law enforcement people in their investigations...due to their inexperience in identifying suspects and following proper procedure...your story just seems suspect...it would be like me offering my services to go into a crack house and identify buyers...again, this is what the PSPCA told me...I didn't make this shit up..like I suspect you have a habit of doing...

 

Incidently, my favorite thing you've obviously made up was something you said to me ages ago when I first came on this site under a different name...you told me that instead of spraying my yard for fleas and ticks ...its not very vegan... I should instead wear high wool socks to prevent the parasites from getting on me...classic...apparently you sleep standing up...I still chuckle at that advice!!!hahahaha!

 

But to get back to my point...RACE matters in who gets prosecuted in these kinds of crimes...even if you are right when you say in Hawaii native Hawaiians aren't prosecuted...that proves my point...RACE MATTERS...everyone should be pursued equally...period...But in the South blacks are more likely to be prosecuted...and specifically in Texas...blacks and Mexicans are more likely to be prosecuted in these kinds of cases...and its usually tied to narcotics investigations...(another reason I have doubts about your story)...If you think that race doesn't matter in Southern law enforcement I ask you to please come back to this universe!

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Huh...I told you to wear high wool socks. I've never heard that one before.

 

As for race mattering I know it does but if enough people cry out sometimes people get out of things because of race. Most of the time it doesn't work that way of course but sometimes it does. As for cock fighting in Hawaii...everyone gets away with it no matter what the race is but for some reason lower income people took part and in hawaii that works out to be the few natives, Filipinos and the small latino population from what I remember a long distant 4 years ago. As for Philly they were a complete mess. The shelter I used to work with was private yet in the back they would hold all the dogs for the city that were involved in legal disputes(this could mean abuse, dog fights, puppy mills etc). The city eventually took this sector over after I left but before then there was no animal enforcement division of any kind in Philadelphia. Heck...when people got caught with livestock animals in the city we had to take those in temporarily too. I don't think many shelters in cities would have to take in a llama, pig or chicken but our shelter did. I can't be sure but I'm assuming my shelter took kick backs for doing that...I don't know I was just a volunteer.

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Actually you told me "wool like" socks...wool wouldn't be vegan...you don't remember? Funny, cause thats one of the reasons I quit coming to this site...seemed some people were in some kind of contest to be more vegan than the others...that's fucking ridiculous! Even though I very rarely will kill even an insect, parasitic bugs are seldom spared in our household, especially since one of our dogs is deathly allergic to them...the fact that you don't recall that makes me think you were just talking to hear yourself talk or be "veganer than thou"...much like on this thread, which I began because I thought it was unfortunate that the law wasn't enforced equally...if what you say is true about native Hawaiians getting away with the crime by playing the race card it still proves my point. Though I am skeptical...youi've already expressed your dislike for that ethnic group (filthy & lazy) and your explanations are EXACTLY the samer as the one racists use against Mexicans in Texas (they're filthy , lazy and get away with certin crimes) and also the same arguement racists use against blacks in Atlanta- (where much of my family currently lives). And as I also said, many whites get away with it too because law enforcement just doesn't care...BUT...if they really want to stick it to someone, they will pile on as many charges as possible, especially in narcotics investigations. And once again, that is how Vick got busted...his cousin was being investigated on drug charges and during the investigation they discovered the dog fighting...and wow, it waqs linked to a high profile figure ( a rich, black man with previous encounters with law enforcement...BINGO! this will look good AND they can get rid of an "uppity colored"...

I hope Vick does get nailed, but I doubt he will...as stated before race will be an underlying motive in pursuing the case, but wealth will help get him off...he'll probably get community service....his cousin will probably be less fortunate...unless he turns state evidence...

Incidently...look at the cities that have animal cruelty law enforcement...Houston, Philly...are there others...I'm sure there are...hmmm what do those cities have in common? I wonder...

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Ah OK...so I'm crazy because wool socks aren't vegan. Its no contests its what fits under the definition. Maybe thats why I don't remember because we get so many people on here thinking milk is vegan if its raw and organic.

 

Back to Vick I think he won't get a slap on the wrist. The outcry is too great...he'll either be found completely innocent or get 6 months in prison...kinda a slap on the wrist but it would still suck to be in prison for 6 months.

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Actually...I was trying to clarify on your behalf...you didn't say wool socks...you said socks that were course like wool...but regardless, its ridiculous to endanger human and animal life by allowing a parasitic infestation...I hate killing, but I hate dying even more...

I guess we'll wait and see on Vick...the outcry is pretty loud, and he's been asked not to show up at training... I think he won't get prison time though...hell, NFL players have been involved in murder and did zero time..(what's his face from the Ravens)...he may get community service, and for a while the NFL may try to distance themselves...but the public is fickle and it will all be forgotten when Lindsey Lohan or some other celebrity kills someone ina DWI or has a bad hair day...

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The thing with Jamal Lewis was ridiculous. Baltimorians were really backing him...its ridiculous how people accept bad things if its from someone on the home team. Anyway he got off easy and easy from the NFL too in how they allowed him to serve his suspension.

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kalozojo,

I appreciate you bringing up issues & concerns about racism for folks to consider. That said, a lot of what you've written really doesnt come across well & starts feeling like personal attacks on Potter. Please keep sharing your thoughts but please dont be rude about it.

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Yea, it was a bit personal, I should offer a truce...afterall, after all that bickering potter actually finally agreed to my point. That point being that the law should be prosecuted equally across racial and class lines...really that is all I was saying...why was that so hard to agree with?

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If I can give one more example of selective enforcement...while I was Texas, PeTA erected a billboard that read "Jesus was a Vegetarian"...I'm sure your all familiar with it...well in the Texas panhandle beef is second only to Jesus...you can imagine the reaction. Someone called the ASPCA and threatened to burn a cat for every day that sign was up...the police were notified and their reaction was..."So, what...it's not against the law."

Now I'm no lawyer, but I believe it IS against the law...and even the act of threatening to do so is against the law, especially under those circumstances! They even went so far as to tell the paper that no law was being broken, but the PeTA billboard might be against the law as a traffic hazard!!!!!!!! (Because of the "distraction") But then, about a year later, that young black man stabbed the dog and the same cops were acting horrified at the brutality of the crime!! (It was terrible, but they were hippocrits!)...incidently, the dog lived... Maybe my experience in the South has made me extremely cynical when it comes to law enforcement...I hope I'm wrong about VIck and he gets prison time, but I just don't want the let down...

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The same exact cops...do you have their names???

I believe it was Officer Newfeld...he was the PR guy for the Amarillo P.D.

The APD was/is extremely corrupt and/or incompetent. A few incidences...

Our house was broken into, my room mate had $600 stolen (he was a tattoo artist and always had lots of cash)...finger prints were found and it turned out to be a guy who was once our friend...he snuck in through a window...the investigating officer told us charges couldn't be filed because we had previously given the guy permission to enter the house when he watched our dogs...that was years previously!!! WHAT THE HOLY FUCK??! I still can't figure that one out...I thought that only applied to vampires!

When my friend Brian was murdered the cops who arrived on the scene essentially escorted dozens of teenagers away from the scene of his murder-told them to go home without taking names or anything!!!! One of my friends actually knew the first cop who showed up, he was actually a decent guy and quit the force in large part due to how they handled the case. At least one cop testified on behalf of the murderer essentially saying that Brian had it coming...(he was run over from behind fleeing after escaping from 6 or so guys beating him on the ground with pool sticks and bats...

There were a few decent cops...but as a whole the department was filled with the quintessential PIGS! (No offense to four legged swine)...

Brian's case got alot of publicity world wide...especially since his murderer only got 10 years probation, but what's not known is shortly afterwards there was another hit and run of a jogger and the accused also got only 10 years probabtion..I believe he was some businessman in town, the victim was a visitor who was staying at a hotel near the airport. Their family issued a scathing statement about how corrupt and incompetent the Amarillo law enforcement and legal system was after the verdict...

And oh yeah, concerning Brian's case...one of Dustin Camp's defenses (he was the murderer) was that he was a football player and therefore inherently good...Brian had a mohawk and therefore inherently bad...)

Another thing...one year we had 7 police related killings...2 in one week by different cops...this is a town of 200,000...I hear one year Cinncinatti had 2 police shootings and the city went apeshit...and they have 750,000! There is/was a real John Wayne mentality among those cops...might I add that my father is in law enforcement, he's a bit of a biggot and even he was ed by some of the things I've told him about that town's cops...

sorry about the rant...

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Incidently...this year is the 10th anniversary of Brian's murder and there are dozens of benefit concerts scheduled around the world...if you can, and your into punk rock, I would suggest going...Brian was an awesome guy...and besides, I'm sure you could set up booths and distribute "Why Vegan" pamphlets...We did that in Amarillo at the first big "Unity through Diversity Fest" that was held in his name...we got alot of good food out to people and tons of "Why Vegan" pamphlets were distributed...

Just a thought...

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I was searching for the newspaper article in the AMarillo Globe News about the PeTA billboard... I found this...what is amusing about this is that PeTA DID NOT ask to have it taken down...the advertising agency took it down, in breach of contract I suspect...I know this because I am the one who called PeTA to tell them the billboard had been removed...they were shocked and were looking into the matter...

 

Dateline: Texas--People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) has asked an Amarillo advertising agency to remove their controversial billboard claiming "Jesus was a vegetarian" from a major Texas highway. It seems that Texans, who take both Jesus and a T-bone quite seriously, were not amused by the anti-meat campaign. The Amarillo Globe-News reported that it has been deluged by angry calls and letters about what one of the newspaper's columnists called "PETA's efforts to convert all us West Texas chicken fried steak-lovin' carnivores into carrot-crunchin' melon thumpers."

 

Anyways...thats Amarillo for you...and why I'm glad as hell to be away from that shit hole...By the way, did you know it was Amarillo cattlemen who sued Oprah?

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Here is a link to the newspaper story...

http://www.amarillo.com/stories/032099/new_billboarddown.shtml

 

I must make a retraction...in this article an officer contacted says there is little they can do, not that it isn't legal...but, I believe the comment that no law was broken was made on the news, and it may have been from the DA Ferrin...he was a total good ol' boy...although I seem to remember the ASPCA having caller ID...

Dorothy LaBorde was quite a character...she was in her seventies and had only been vegetarian for a few years, she converted in her sixties...she was an awesome lady...and fiery as all hell! She was a stereo typical Texas grandma...except she was vegetarian...(picture a cross between Peggy Hill and Ann Richards...hahaha)

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  • 3 weeks later...

my socialist comrades chide me for my support of the 'Chinese Position' on crime.

 

I think Vick, and anyone else caught involved in dog fighting should be given a fair trial, if convicted, allowed one appeal, and if unsuccessful in that appeal, taken outside the court and shot in the head. Then his family or his estate will be billed for the bullet and the executioner's time.

 

I think that's really the best way to deal with animal cruelty, poaching, and a raft of crimes.

 

::sigh:: too bad that's not the way it is.

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Supposedly this judge has been known to not pay attention to plea deals and often times gives harsher punishments than the plea deals. This means Vick will at minimum get the 18month max recommendation but many defense attorneys have said that he sometimes gives the legal max which would be great. If Vick can get 5 years without probation it will be a good thing. If he gets out after 1-2 years he'll probably still be in great shape and he'll still be able to make money. After 5 I don't know if he'll be able to stay motivated in prison. Plus I love the fact that nobody is ever going to give him a fare shake in life ever again. I just wish the max fine was more than $500,000...thats pocket change to him. Honestly I wish ever criminal could get fined all of their money for really horrendous felonies. Vick was seen fighting dogs while still on college and should therefore lose every cent the NFL paid him..instead he's gonna get out of prison and still be very wealthy which is a shame because if he chooses he can live luxuriously in his house and never leave.

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This is getting annoying...before I start my rant, let me emphasize that I stick by my claim that race plays a major part in who gets charged with animal abuse...HOWEVER...just because race plays a role in who gets prosecuted doesn't mean those who are prosecuted should play the race card! The problem is, by selectively prosecuting these cases, it allows some to scream "Foul!" The NAACP, who I usually support, is claiming Vick is the victim of a conspiracy due to his off the field behaviour...wtf!!?? Everybody is whining that he deserves a second chance...first of all, he never gave his dogs a second chance...he killed them, himself, for "performing" badly. Second of all...he has already gotten at least a second chance...remember the incident with the pot at the airport?! He got away with that...how many chances does he get?! If these cases were prosecuted equally across racial and class lines we wouldn't have to deal with alot of this shit! What's sad is that just because he can throw a fucking ball, he will get a lighter sentence. And because of past abuses of the legal system, many in the black community will think he's being treated unfairly! And then there are those that bring up the fact that people shoot deer and other animals all the time and there are no consequences, yet because he killed dogs, everyone is upset...good point, but maybe they should consider that killing deer and other animals is also wrong! I hope Vick gets mauled by Ving Rhames' mastiffs...

-rant over

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