Reaction after eating something cooked...

[belleadonna]

Taz loves raw food but he is not a vegan. He loves raw possum the best!! But he will not argue about it. He will just rip your head off. http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/belleadonna/02cb9c65.gif

[jonathan]

When I think of raw eating I tend to think of the vegan vs. not vegan issues. We say the raw & vegan diet are healthy, etc. etc. but lots of people I talk to always say I like meat or something like that. So now faced with raw diet I am using the same arguments people use not to go vegan. I like the taste of cooked food, convenience, etc. etc. It is humorous, but has also helped me gain perspective.

 

For me this is a false analogy. For most people the reason that they go vegan is not health. It is from an ethical point of view, and being opposed to animal exploitation. The health angle is simply a bonus. Now with raw vegan vs non raw vegan there is no ethical reason to go raw vegan, so the analogy is void. The ethical implications of eating animal products are far reaching but a person's health is their own business.

 

Regarding veganfitness and raw foodists, we have had a significant number of members (ha being the most prominent) being really abbrasive in their promotion of raw foodism. Search through his posts to see what I mean. Once you understand that, you understand the backlash. Veganitaliana, you do have yourself to blame for hostilities if you are going to start threads with the first line being 'Anyone that considers themselves to be vegan for ethical reasons should be a raw vegan'. If you seriously do not expect to piss people off starting threads like that then you need your head examined.

 

Now veganbodybuilding is at the other end of the spectrum. As raw foodism is more popular in the U.S. and this is primarily a North American board, raw foodism is almost unquestioned here. I think that this is wrong as criticality is important in every diet/lifestyle. I think separate moderation of this section would not contribute to this.

 

Perhaps a happy medium is somewhere in between the two board. Do not forget that this is a bodybuilding and fitness board, not a raw bodybuilding and fitness board.

 

Jonathan

[Zack]

I don't really see the problem. Even if you don't agree with bigbwii, which I don't entirely. He is pretty good about avoiding the non-raw posts. I haven't really seen any that were not in the raw sections that he posted in promoting the raw lifestyle. He is respectful in that way, whether you agree with him or not.

 

I do have my opinions about it. I'm raw right now, but I don't agree with a lot of the things being talked about here. I think if you had a raw moderator, it would just be censored in favor of raw foodists. There should not be a need for that, need to see both sides of a situation I think.

[Bigbwii]

Personaly I don't think there's anything wrong with the various sections, I think it helps to bring like minded people together, can you imagine if I tried to post raw vegan articles in the general discussion/Vegan recipe/lifestyle section, I'd imagine a lot of people would view that as confrontational and offensive but in the Raw food section it's totally apropraite!

 

I just think it's a matter of living and letting live and co-existing, simple as that, after all what's the point of going into the Raw food section professing your dis-taste for the lifestyle, that's just asking for trouble, that's like posting recipes for meat dishes in the Vegan section......like I say, if people don't like what they read here then don't read the posts in that section, after all it's one thing to not agree with it and it's another thing to voice negative opinions and cause trouble.

 

But anyway I'm gonna shud up 'n' train!

[Odidnetne]

I've been watching this forum pretty well, putting out fires wherever they are, I don't think we need another moderator to simply watch the raw food section, and I don't think this is getting out of hand enough to really step in on. As much as you and Jonathan disagree, you seem to work out your differences without someone coming around and locking up the topic. Like Richard though, I'm going to start to watch this section more carefully (even though I read every thread on this section already).

[Zack]

I think if it's just constructive criticism and debate that's cool, it should be stopped when things get personal and offensive though. A light argument isn't really bad.

[Veganitaliana]

The ethical implications of eating animal products are far reaching but a person's health is their own business.

 

Veganitaliana, you do have yourself to blame for hostilities if you are going to start threads with the first line being 'Anyone that considers themselves to be vegan for ethical reasons should be a raw vegan'. If you seriously do not expect to piss people off starting threads like that then you need your head examined.

 

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan, I expected a healthy debate, not people telling me that I need my head examined like you just did. How respectful is that?

 

And since you bring up the ethical issue again. I do not think that a person's food choices only affect their own health. By choosing the food one chooses a person is supporting many things including a type of agricultural system. For instance, by not choosing organic you are choosing the continued use of pesticides, sewage sludge use, migrant worker poisonings, etc. the list goes on and on. By choosing organic fruit, a person is supporting a healthier environment for everyone including animals. You should see my organic garden. I've got who knows how many birds in it, at least two types of snakes, frogs, butterflies, rabbits occasional deer, even bears sometimes come for the cherries and that's only one acre of land. Do not tell me that a person's food choices do not have ethical considerations. Just because it's vegan doesn't necessarily make it the most ethical choice.

 

 

Incidentally, this comment from you amuses me.

 

"3) The fact that crackers are hardly a good or indeed whole food."

 

How come you can admit HERE that crackers aren't a whole food or that they're pretty far down the list of healthy choices of foods available?

[Veganitaliana]

 

Yes unfortunatly this reaction is pretty much common place anywhere you go, you are going to come across people that will be extremely rude/negative towards you and the raw lifestyle and those that live it are grossly miss-understood and much fearv and bitterness surrounds it.

 

I went through it for years when I first started out and this even happens in the raw community when you try to talk about Fruitarianism, you just got to live your life as you see fit and not rely on other peoples acceptance.

 

The thing with me and Jonathan has been going on long before you came here so don't think you started anything.

 

For that reason you got to be a strong person to mainain the raw lifestyle in every way...it's pretty hard to find a place where Fruitarians/Raw Vegans can chill out and share their experences without watching their backs, you got to be careful where you share your raw food stuff because people can get pretty defensive/offended, almost as if your accusing them of not doing what they can for their health.

 

As far as links go, do the leg work yourself, just go through this section and pick what relates to you!

 

 

Yeah, you're right. There shouldn't be any shortcuts. I've got to do the research properly myself if I'm going to learn anything. I like your stuff btw, especially the "shudup'n train". It's exactly what I need to do. Ciao

[Bigbwii]

 

Yes unfortunatly this reaction is pretty much common place anywhere you go, you are going to come across people that will be extremely rude/negative towards you and the raw lifestyle and those that live it are grossly miss-understood and much fearv and bitterness surrounds it.

 

I went through it for years when I first started out and this even happens in the raw community when you try to talk about Fruitarianism, you just got to live your life as you see fit and not rely on other peoples acceptance.

 

The thing with me and Jonathan has been going on long before you came here so don't think you started anything.

 

For that reason you got to be a strong person to mainain the raw lifestyle in every way...it's pretty hard to find a place where Fruitarians/Raw Vegans can chill out and share their experences without watching their backs, you got to be careful where you share your raw food stuff because people can get pretty defensive/offended, almost as if your accusing them of not doing what they can for their health.

 

As far as links go, do the leg work yourself, just go through this section and pick what relates to you!

 

quote]

 

Yeah, you're right. There shouldn't be any shortcuts. I've got to do the research properly myself if I'm going to learn anything. I like your stuff btw, especially the "shudup'n train". It's exactly what I need to do. Ciao

 

All the best!

[Kon]

The world needs people that will challenge your beliefs and help you question yourself. Without these moments it would be easy to get comfortable with your tendencies and in effect not grow as an individual. There should be no reason to be annoyed by anyone who percieves something differently than you do. Instead be greatful for the instance of time where conflict arises and a choice can be made. Changes whether good or bad can't happen without conflict.

[offense74]

@Veganitaliana

You're defenately not the first one here (or probably at other places too) getting dissappointed about the rudeness at veganfitness.

As I remember we've touched this subject here before.

[Bigbwii]

Yeah I know a lot of people are into this "challenge" "debate" thing but I'm all about the action part, there's those that just wanna chit chat/debate about the raw lifetyle, etc and there's those that want to get desired results and have set goals they would like to achieve like getting off cooked food, getting past there detox, increasing their raw intake, getting fitter for instance and trust me keeping a positive mindset during all of that is hard enough as it is.

 

I can honestly say that as Fruitarians/Raw Vegans you kinda get sick of being "challenged" and "debated" with everywhere you go, it gets real boring and can eventually have a negative effect on your efforts, let's put it this way....it's like deciding to run a marathon and for the whole time leading up to it everyone keeps telling you that you can't do it, even while your doing it people are hassling you and telling you you can't do it and you'll never finish.....or if you dedcide to quit smoking and everyone is telling you that you'll never quit and why would you even want to.... and after a while some people actually start to believe all this stuff and they quit the raw lifestyle because all of that "challenging" gave them the excuse to take the easy way out and quit!!!

 

Well that's what it's like as a Fruitarian/Raw vegan and many would just like a peaceful place to do things like get support in getting off cooked foods and not have their efforts "challenged" or to just chill with like minded people, be able to read raw articles without having some non raw person get offended or want to "challenge" it.

 

I know it may seem stupid to some of you non-raw members but going raw is extremely hard and support and compassion is something that is very much needed, but hey this ain't my forum so I'm shutting up.

 

Anyway this subject is getting tired and I've done way too much chit chatting!!!

 

Time for me to shud up 'n' train!

 

[Richard]

And since you bring up the ethical issue again. I do not think that a person's food choices only affect their own health. By choosing the food one chooses a person is supporting many things including a type of agricultural system. For instance, by not choosing organic you are choosing the continued use of pesticides, sewage sludge use, migrant worker poisonings, etc. the list goes on and on. By choosing organic fruit, a person is supporting a healthier environment for everyone including animals. You should see my organic garden. I've got who knows how many birds in it, at least two types of snakes, frogs, butterflies, rabbits occasional deer, even bears sometimes come for the cherries and that's only one acre of land. Do not tell me that a person's food choices do not have ethical considerations. Just because it's vegan doesn't necessarily make it the most ethical choice.

 

You can still buy cooked organic food. The rawness in itself isn't an ethical issue, it is a health issue as far as I know. There are a couple of benefits to the environment however; by not cooking food, energy is saved and there is probably less pollution (of course you could have a solar panel on your house or a turbine to power the cooker). The other thing is packaging, and if you are buying loose vegetables and fruits, there is far less packaging than anything else. But having said that, you can buy exactly the same stuff and then cook it (or grow your own stuff and cook it) so you don't necessarily have less packaging on a raw diet, but it is more likely, given that most people on a cooked diet will buy more stuff which comes in packaging.

[belleadonna]

Why argue at all? Just do what you gotta do. No one likes a born again believer who preaches at them do they (and I am a born again believer)?? So we don't need to preach raw veganism or any other form of veganism. Just do it and others will follow if they dare. And if they ask questions, all the better. Lead by example. I don't debate with them. It doesn't do any good.

 

As to the form each one of us desires to eat, that is our business. Right?? I applaud anyone who is striving to better their health and live with a clear conscience.

 

Discussion is one thing. Belittling anothers views is wrong. When it gets personal, it gets ugly.

 

ROCK ON!!

[Kon]

it's only belittling if you allow it to be.

bigwii, if someone tells me i cant do something, it makes me want to do it more to prove them wrong, so that really depends upon the individual and whether they have the self esteem and self motivation to be a true individual which has the frame of mind to realize that it's not the other people which determine what you can do, but rather it is yourself which determines it.

I don't think anything should ever be ignored though whatever it is.

A challenge can be a reminder for why you are doing what you are doing and would help motivate you to continue to improve your current state whatever it may be.

[Odidnetne]

I can honestly say that as Fruitarians/Raw Vegans you kinda get sick of being "challenged" and "debated" with everywhere you go, it gets real boring and can eventually have a negative effect on your efforts....

 

Unfortunately, living here in the States, being any sort of Vegetarian/Vegan is hard enough (unless you're the kind of vegetarian that eats fish) with being challenged with stuff that you've obviously proven wrong. It gets on my nerves quite often, and I have learned to try to not challenge people on certain beliefs.

[jonathan]

@Veganitaliana

You're defenately not the first one here (or probably at other places too) getting dissappointed about the rudeness at veganfitness.

As I remember we've touched this subject here before.

 

Ah stop whinging. Just because people say what they think there you regard that as rudeness. If you have a problem with someone on there, say something, rather than skulking off over to veganbodybuilding and moaning about it.

 

It is by no means a board where people are permitted to flame one another. If you post on other strength boards you would understand that VF is indeed a very polite place.

 

Jonathan

[offense74]

@Veganitaliana

You're defenately not the first one here (or probably at other places too) getting dissappointed about the rudeness at veganfitness.

As I remember we've touched this subject here before.

 

Ah stop whinging. Just because people say what they think there you regard that as rudeness. If you have a problem with someone on there, say something, rather than skulking off over to veganbodybuilding and moaning about it.

 

It is by no means a board where people are permitted to flame one another. If you post on other strength boards you would understand that VF is indeed a very polite place.

 

Jonathan

Things are as they are. I felt like telling Veganitaliana that others too had had bad experiences over there. I will stop whing now since I don't want to waste energy on a place that I don't even frequent.

[Hero]

the glands in my throat swell up immidiately upon cooked food. also immidiately my nose is filled with mucuous and sometimes running.

i also get a headache right away.

 

anyone else get reactions like this?

[Zack]

the glands in my throat swell up immidiately upon cooked food. also immidiately my nose is filled with mucuous and sometimes running.

i also get a headache right away.

 

anyone else get reactions like this?

 

How long were you raw for?

[Zack]

I really still think a lot of cooked food "symptoms" are because of people's mentalities.

 

That being said, I have noticed after cutting out cooked food 100% my skin has broken out and I am cleaning out even more. I have been high raw for months, but I think actually cutting it all out is allowing my body, especially liver/spleen situation to sort itself out. A little early to tell, I've only been all raw a few weeks now..

[Hero]

the glands in my throat swell up immidiately upon cooked food. also immidiately my nose is filled with mucuous and sometimes running.

i also get a headache right away.

 

anyone else get reactions like this?

 

How long were you raw for?

 

since this winter 90%-100% raw. i keep trying to reintroduce cooked food into my body but it doesnt want it. but eating fruits is so damn expensive. i cant get the variety i need and the amount i need. And im spending money like crazy just to eat fruits and I cant even get enough calories.

so i was trying to introduce rice and pasta...cheap grains and stuff that are calorie dense. but my body doesnt want em

[Zack]

the glands in my throat swell up immidiately upon cooked food. also immidiately my nose is filled with mucuous and sometimes running.

i also get a headache right away.

 

anyone else get reactions like this?

 

How long were you raw for?

 

since this winter 90%-100% raw. i keep trying to reintroduce cooked food into my body but it doesnt want it. but eating fruits is so damn expensive. i cant get the variety i need and the amount i need. And im spending money like crazy just to eat fruits and I cant even get enough calories.

so i was trying to introduce rice and pasta...cheap grains and stuff that are calorie dense. but my body doesnt want em

 

Try to stay away from grains. Try something like garbanzo beans or something you like. That helped me alot, grains never did anything but harm me. I could tolerate beans pretty well, and it allowed me to get in enough calories along with the rest of my food being raw. Now raw is an absolute necessity for me though, so I am back to it. I have found that watermelon is a huge source of calories. A good sized one is somewhere around 1,000 calories and maybe 20 grams of protein, that and bananas have been a huge source of inexpensive raw calories for me.

[Guest]

since this winter 90%-100% raw. i keep trying to reintroduce cooked food into my body but it doesnt want it. but eating fruits is so damn expensive. i cant get the variety i need and the amount i need. And im spending money like crazy just to eat fruits and I cant even get enough calories.

so i was trying to introduce rice and pasta...cheap grains and stuff that are calorie dense. but my body doesnt want em

 

Try sprouting the grains...the calories are just the same, yet they don't seem to bother people that have problems with things like gluten.

[Veganitaliana]

the glands in my throat swell up immidiately upon cooked food. also immidiately my nose is filled with mucuous and sometimes running.

i also get a headache right away.

 

anyone else get reactions like this?

 

How long were you raw for?

 

since this winter 90%-100% raw. i keep trying to reintroduce cooked food into my body but it doesnt want it. but eating fruits is so damn expensive. i cant get the variety i need and the amount i need. And im spending money like crazy just to eat fruits and I cant even get enough calories.

so i was trying to introduce rice and pasta...cheap grains and stuff that are calorie dense. but my body doesnt want em

 

How about growing some of your own stuff? All you have to do, even if you live in a northern climate is dedicate one or two walls to growing mostly climbing fruits. Paint the wall white to reflect as much light as possible. Install long grow lights at the top (they're pretty cheap to buy at any plant nursery and they consume little energy). You can grow tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, passionfruit, melons, peas, pole beans, lettuce, strawberries, ground tomatoes, figs, mushrooms etc. very easily indoors and with very little space. Then there's sprouting too. Instead of cooking your seeds and grains you can sprout them. Admittedly, not much of your calories should come from them, it's definitely cheap and one bean sprouts into eight times its size. Hey, if marijuana growers are smart enough to figure out how to grow the stuff here in Québec's northern winters in their basements, we've got to be smart enough to figure out how to grow our own food stuff.

 

Finally, about the variety. IMHO, I don't think you need to have variety at every single meal or even every single day. I think that the variety that counts is the longterm, over the year variety that is important. So if bananas are on sale, stock up on them and enjoy!