Where does veganbodybuilding.com stand?

[Kon]

You don't need to have a raw food section to be able to talk about raw food. Same goes for most of the other sections as well.

 

The raw food section may attract raw foodists, but will their interest in bodybuilding be as strong as if they were joining a forum without a raw food section, but rather bodybuilding sections? Probably not, and hence by even having it it sways the attention away from the original goal.

[dontxhide]

You don't need to have a raw food section to be able to talk about raw food. Same goes for most of the other sections as well.

 

The raw food section may attract raw foodists, but will their interest in bodybuilding be as strong as if they were joining a forum without a raw food section, but rather bodybuilding sections? Probably not, and hence by even having it it sways the attention away from the original goal.

 

Ah. I see where your coming from. I would still be interested in staying, because I joined for the community and the bodybuilding aspect. The raw forum was just an added benefit.

 

If you do get rid of it, maybe make a health and nutrition forum (i think there is one already) that has a little sub comment on the diets you can discuss.

[pelicanAndrew]

You don't need to have a raw food section to be able to talk about raw food. Same goes for most of the other sections as well.

 

The raw food section may attract raw foodists, but will their interest in bodybuilding be as strong as if they were joining a forum without a raw food section, but rather bodybuilding sections? Probably not, and hence by even having it it sways the attention away from the original goal.

 

Ah. I see where your coming from. I would still be interested in staying, because I joined for the community and the bodybuilding aspect. The raw forum was just an added benefit.

 

If you do get rid of it, maybe make a health and nutrition forum (i think there is one already) that has a little sub comment on the diets you can discuss.

 

Well if you're going by that frame of mind we should probably get rid of the Relationships and Entertainment forums as well at least.

 

I just don't see it being a distraction at all. I tried going raw for a week and didn't like being completely raw but it was a nice way to look at food.

[Kon]

Why have two sections when you can fit both into one. Having just one section that appeals to both things allows members who may only have had visited one section to also see threads which they would have not seen and possibly overlooked. In effect, more unified community emerges.

[pelicanAndrew]

Why have two sections when you can fit both into one. Having just one section that appeals to both things allows members who may only have had visited one section to also see threads which they would have not seen and possibly overlooked. In effect, more unified community emerges.

 

That makes sense. I'm not apposed to combining them at all. I'm indifferent so I figured I'd play devil's advocate.

[Bigbwii]

Wow!!!

 

This is pretty sad to see and I can imagine that Robert would be sad to read this too.....Robert has stated many times that this forum is going in a different direction, one that's more open and diverse, etc, maybe people should leave it up to him to change as he wishes, as veganpotter mentioned the fitness part of the name covers a multitude of subjects.

 

As far as the raw section goes, do you realise that this sounds so much like what non-vegans say about veganism!!!???

 

I can't see how the raw food section can be such a threat, as Richard said, you either read it or you don't and if it upsets you that much then don't read the posts.....the raw lifestyle is no where near conventional so to expect conventional conversation/posts is asking for frustration....but I've seen this behaviour before many times regarding raw foods, I'm just dissappointed to see it here....oh well!

 

I really don't see where all this is coming from because nothing much has really changed, people come and go then they come back again and every forum has it's season and if this forum really has problems then I think closing the raw section will not make a blind bit of difference.

 

juss my 2 cents!

 

[pelicanAndrew]

Wow!!!

 

This is pretty sad to see and I can imagine that Robert would be sad to read this too.....Robert has stated many times that this forum is going in a different direction, one that's more open and diverse, etc, maybe people should leave it up to him to change as he wishes, as veganpotter mentioned the fitness part of the name covers a multitude of subjects.

 

As far as the raw section goes, do you realise that this sounds so much like what non-vegans say about veganism!!!???

 

I can't see how the raw food section can be such a threat, as Richard said, you either read it or you don't and if it upsets you that much then don't read the posts.....the raw lifestyle is no where near conventional so to expect conventional conversation/posts is asking for frustration....but I've seen this behaviour before many times regarding raw foods, I'm just dissappointed to see it here....oh well!

 

I really don't see where all this is coming from because nothing much has really changed, people come and go then they come back again and every forum has it's season and if this forum really has problems then I think closing the raw section will not make a blind bit of difference.

 

juss my 2 cents!

 

 

I really don't think this is an attack on raw foodists Big. And you all know that we all love and respect you and what you do.

 

Robert hasn't ever made a rash decision yet(that I know of

) so I'm sure he'll handle this all with tact and intelligence.

 

Not to be a capitalist sounding douche, but this is his site and his vision. We should all of course contribute to this thread so he gets an idea of how people feel but in the end it's up to him.

[Bigbwii]

Wow!!!

 

This is pretty sad to see and I can imagine that Robert would be sad to read this too.....Robert has stated many times that this forum is going in a different direction, one that's more open and diverse, etc, maybe people should leave it up to him to change as he wishes, as veganpotter mentioned the fitness part of the name covers a multitude of subjects.

 

As far as the raw section goes, do you realise that this sounds so much like what non-vegans say about veganism!!!???

 

I can't see how the raw food section can be such a threat, as Richard said, you either read it or you don't and if it upsets you that much then don't read the posts.....the raw lifestyle is no where near conventional so to expect conventional conversation/posts is asking for frustration....but I've seen this behaviour before many times regarding raw foods, I'm just dissappointed to see it here....oh well!

 

I really don't see where all this is coming from because nothing much has really changed, people come and go then they come back again and every forum has it's season and if this forum really has problems then I think closing the raw section will not make a blind bit of difference.

 

juss my 2 cents!

 

 

I really don't think this is an attack on raw foodists Big. And you all know that we all love and respect you and what you do.

 

Robert hasn't ever made a rash decision yet(that I know of

) so I'm sure he'll handle this all with tact and intelligence.

 

Not to be a capitalist sounding douche, but this is his site and his vision. We should all of course contribute to this thread so he gets an idea of how people feel but in the end it's up to him.

 

Hey PA, how you doing?

 

Anyway has anybody even spoke to Robert about this to see what's happening, or to get his point of view, it just seems odd to have all this posted on the forum!

[Zack]

He'll be back tonight, I told him about it.

[Bigbwii]

Cool....

[xveganjoshx]

Wow!!!

This is pretty sad to see

 

What is sad to see? People expressing their honest thoughts and opinions?... It must be sad to you, since honesty is not a quality you possess.

 

the fitness part of the name covers a multitude of subjects.

The last I was aware of, starving yourself of protein and calories, and losing strength were not part of fitness. Not of any fit disciple or of any healthy lifestyle.

 

As far as the raw section goes, do you realise that this sounds so much like what non-vegans say about veganism!!!???

Except that most vegans don't go on omni bodybuilding forums talking about their lifestyle, and if they do, they have sound nutritional advice at hand to legitimize their view. Also, this is not a raw forum. (Don't you have one anyway???)

 

I can't see how the raw food section can be such a threat

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you didn't read my post . If you did, I'm sure you ignored it. I dare you to quote me, and try to legitimize your view. You can't, because it's based on non-sense and lies.

 

I really don't see where all this is coming from because nothing much has really changed

A couple of nonsense threads in the raw food forum ignited a feeling that has been building for awhile here, whether expressed or not. You and others have been spreading misinformation for far too long. It's time to expose the misinformation for what it is: lies, deceit, and nonsense.

 

juss my 2 cents!

 

[veggieprincess]

just an idea, but maybe unifying some forum sections would help bring some focus back to the forum. I personally only visit like a few sections.

Having a bunch of sections is confusing in my opinion and dilutes/spreads out all the posts.

 

There needs to be a clear structure to the forum sections and whatever sections there are, they all need to be strong.

 

example:

 

News & Announcements

General Discussion & Information

Vegan Health & Nutrition (Foods, supplements, vitamins, etc)

Vegan Kitchen (cooking, recipies, mealplans, etc)

Beginner's Vegan Bodybuilding (questions, concerns, advice, game plans, support!)

Experienced Bodybuilding (detailed bodybuilding discussion)

Fitness & Training (Exercises, training journals, routines, etc)

Off-Topic (anything off-topic)

 

OMG, I just sent Robert a PM on this a couple days ago.... that I felt there were too many sub-topics. Good to see some folks are in agreement that there are way too many categories in here. I spend too long searching for threads and get frustrated.

[Bigbwii]

I really don't see where all this is coming from because nothing much has really changed

A couple of nonsense threads in the raw food forum ignited a feeling that has been building for awhile here, whether expressed or not. You and others have been spreading misinformation for far too long. It's time to expose the misinformation for what it is: lies, deceit, and nonsense.

 

juss my 2 cents!

 

 

I'm sorry I still don't see were the threat is....if you don't like the posts don't go in that section, that's why it's the rawfood section, so raw foodist of like mind can discuss things and share info relevant to them, if such wrong info is being spread then let other decide that for themselves....

 

Be good

 

[Bigbwii]

Wow!!!

This is pretty sad to see

 

 

 

the fitness part of the name covers a multitude of subjects.

The last I was aware of, starving yourself of protein and calories, and losing strength were not part of fitness. Not of any fit disciple or of any healthy lifestyle.

 

 

 

Isn't that what bodybuilders do to cut up!!???

 

and what's the name of the forum your on...Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

 

Anyway you guys be good...

[xveganjoshx]

Wow!!!

This is pretty sad to see

 

 

 

the fitness part of the name covers a multitude of subjects.

The last I was aware of, starving yourself of protein and calories, and losing strength were not part of fitness. Not of any fit disciple or of any healthy lifestyle.

 

 

 

Isn't that what bodybuilders do!!???

 

and what's the name of the forum your on...Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

 

Sorry I couldn't help that one....

 

Anyway you guys be good...

 

Don't even pretend that you know the first thing about bodybuilding. What you think you're referring to, called cutting, involves a calculated caloric and protein restriction. Something on the order of: 6500 kcal a day and 250 g protein to 4000 kcal and 200 g protein, for a pro, for example. But wait, you don't believe in protein or calories, so I guess this doesn't apply to you.

[Kon]

uh

while I don't want to get into a debate over raw food in this thread,

I must say that if people want to discuss raw food, all sides should be welcome of conveying their point of view. Saying that if you don't like raw foodism, then don't post anything makes no sense.

Considering this is a forum which probably consists mostly of people who have mixed feelings about raw food, its safe to say these people will be more judgemental and have preconcieved or supported beliefs against it. Raw foodist have to accept this and not shrug them off by saying stuff like, oh you have to experience it yourself to know that this is good.

thats all im gonna say on this here..

[Odidnetne]

Enough!

 

BigBwii was right. Even though the site may have been pushing closer (or at least opened up more) to raw food people, it was a few spam messages a few weeks ago that really got this snowball rolling.

 

As much as I agree that cooked food is really for the bodybuilders though, any information that any of the raw people gave really was for people who had no interest in bodybuilding.

 

I really don't want to see this thread just turned into "Cooked VS. Raw", because if we want to put the focus back into body/power/weightlifting, we can do that with new thoughts of organization, not exclusion of people, and certainly not through an argument that we've had 20,000+ times on this forum.

[CollegeB]

Yeah the forum is diversifying away from focusing solely on bodybuilding, but Robert has always tried to balance the forum. Bodybuilding is a lifestyle so there are going to be other issues which it impacts, and veganism also being a lifestyle does the same thing.

 

I like jonathan have been very infrequent in the forum. I personally do not get as much information from it as I used to. I think though that its great to stop by and support the new members, and I hope that people continue to participate on the forum for many years instead of just a few months.

 

I do feel that the biggest change is that we don't have many hardcore bodybuilders on the forum anymore. Fitness has taken over, and that isn't a bad thing in the least, but it does not appeal to a sort of meathead mentality. As I recall when the forum started up we considered ourselves just as much meatheads as anyone else pumping iron. I'm not really in that camp anymore, but thats just how it used to be.

 

All in all yes the forum is changing, but I don't think thats bad. If more people come and learn healthy things then that is fantastic. I'm probably not going anywhere anytime soon though.

[Zack]

it was a few spam messages a few weeks ago that really got this snowball rolling.

 

 

No it is not. This has been a concern of quite a few people's for some time. Nobody spoke up about it though. Some of us thought it was about time so I did it, it's not the spam that caused it at all...

 

 

I do not want this to turn into a raw vs. cooked thing either. That is not what this thread is about.

[robert]

Hey everyone,

 

I just got back from the World Vegetarian Day Festival. I was a guest speaker there and it was an awesome time. I haven't read through any of this yet, but some people sent me messages about it.

 

It's almost midnight so I need to head to bed soon. Please understand that I'm working 12-15 hours a day 7 days a week and I'm under high stress with immediate deadlines.

 

Also please be aware that I will be away from home more than home over the next couple of months. I just got in from San Fran and I'm off to Denver in a few days, then Boston, then Orlando, then in Portland for an event, then San Fran the next day, then Eugene, etc.

 

I'm pumped to have my own National Speaking Tour but it's going to be a hectic time!

 

Just understand that it may take me a little while before I can take any action regarding any of the ideas presented here.

 

Thanks and have a great week.

[flanders77]

It must be sad to you, since honesty is not a quality you possess.

 

The last I was aware of, starving yourself of protein and calories, and losing strength were not part of fitness.

 

(...) try to legitimize your view. You can't, because it's based on non-sense and lies.

 

You and others have been spreading misinformation for far too long.

It's time to expose the misinformation for what it is: lies, deceit, and nonsense.

 

@Josh: Reading these lines made me really sad, too. Not because some expressing what he thinks but because of the offensive choice of words that really does not fit into vbb&fitness. You discredit yourself by offending Bigbwii in such a way.

Bigbwii has inspired many members by his great physique and strength. Maybe he is not a Bodybuilder like you but he is very fit.

 

The members who know me personally and via internet know that I like debating (maybe not as much as Darth but still...). Usually I try not to debate on a personal level but to explain my arguments in detail without emphazising on me being a health/sports professional. I have absolutely no problem if someone has a different opinion and does not change it after a debate. Different opinions are not really unusual for an internet forum IMO .

As Richard and others stated Robert wanted to attract as many interested persons as possible with vbb&f. It was him who decided to create a rawfood-section. Those who where raw or became raw just used this section for what it was supposed to.

 

Two more things I want to draw your attention to:

As far as the raw section goes, do you realise that this sounds so much like what non-vegans say about veganism!!!???

If someone decides to believe in the traditional medical system this makes him as much of an believer as someone who decides to believe in other scientific systems.

[DV]

And maybe that's the real division here, not raw vs. cooked or bodybuilder vs. vegan couch potato. Maybe the real change in the forum has been that it used to be about people coming together who were working towards the same goal of bodybuilding as vegans.

 

Now it seems as though it's a forum for pushing "alternative" ideas as somehow better than "conventional" ideas just because they're different, regardless of how far fetched or lacking in proof. It's an insult to many members' intelligence to assume that they are close-minded of new ideas just because they ask for evidence that a new idea is valid. And this seems to happen mostly in the food and nutrition sections. When a member asks about an alternative to standard squats, the person giving the alternative can usually back up the reason why the alternative will work. When a member asks why a certain alternative food or nutritional ideas is valid, they're told to just do it and be open minded. That's the way it's appeared to me in recent months anyway.

[flanders77]

As I stated before and will repeat once again: It is about what you are willing to believe in. Concerning the raw section and the advice given there IMO Richard said it all:

To me, here are the scenarios:

 

1) Someone thinks raw food is nonsense, and so doesn't read the raw food section. Conclusion; they don't have a problem with the raw section since they haven't read any of it.

 

2) Someone thinks raw food is nonsense, but reads the section anyway, and doesn't change their mind. No harm has been done, they just disagree with what has been said there.

 

3) Someone thinks raw food is nonsense, but reads the section, tries out a few things, and finds that it works for them. Bonus.

 

4) Someone thinks raw food is nonsense, but reads the section, tries out a few things, and finds that it doesn't work for them. No harm done, they feel they have explored raw food and they can move on.

 

5) Someone likes the raw food lifestyle / diet, and so uses the section. Bonus.

 

If raw foodism is supposedly misinformation, then people will soon find themselves not getting anywhere, and they will change to another approach. They won't just stick with raw food even though it's getting them nowhere. Eating a raw food diet in itself won't make you ill or anything, so it isn't a danger.

 

If you don't like alternative and/or new ideas how did you come to the very alternative diet you consume

[DV]

If you don't like alternative and/or new ideas how did you come to the very alternative diet you consume

 

You assume that I don't like alternative or new ideas. That is a very wrong assumption on your part, Flanders.

 

I did a tremendous amount of research on a plant-based diet and that's why I consume one. I've also researched the weak areas of a plant-based diet and supplement accordingly. When I give advice, I base it on evidence. When I discuss new ideas that are opinion-only, I state that.

 

Perhaps you and I should not debate on this forum as our debates don't do much for the other members. We are probably more alike than we realize but we definitely have a different opinion on how advice should be given and how ideas should be expressed. I've met you and I like you personally - I don't want that to change because we disagree on this forum. By the way, you remind me very much of my German grandmother, not that it's a bad thing...........

[Guest]

Yeah Josh...I think you went too far. Especially since your trying to gain and you still don't look as fit, not nearly as strong in the gym or a big as bigwii.