Health & Fitness Advice From People Who Aren't Either

[beforewisdom]

What do "you all" think of veg*ns who are obviously not fit and who have an unhealthy appearance spouting off about how veg*sm is great for your health as well as weight control?

 

A fact is a fact, no matter who speaks it.

 

However, I have seen people do this and I have seen other people ridicule them behind their back later. I have also heard a few people conclude that the health and weight control argument for veg*sm is bunk because a heavy/way thin/unhealthy looking person spouted off abut the health benefits of veg*sm.

 

A few years ago when I was heavy due to some injuries a coworker who was also a friend put the matter of me giving fitness advice beyond a certain point to me bluntly....in private. It really hurt, but I am glad I was told.

 

A registered dietitian who speaks at Summerfest made a smilar point to a big audience he was talking to. He told the crowd that if you have an obvious weight or health issue you shouldn't go around talking about health and veg*sm as both you and veg*sm will be judged negatively.

 

I'm on a non-veg*n web board where this vegetarian woman is always bragging how she is a health nut being into yoga, massage and have gotten several boyfriends to lose weight by convincing them to go vegetarian. She has posted pictures of herself and she is quite rotund.

 

So what do all of you think about this kind of situation?

 

My personal view is that it is wrong for people to judge people.....and advice this way....but, it seems to be a fact of life. IMHO unless someone is the picture of health they should stick to the other arguments for veg*sm when talking about it.

 

Opinions?

[LongTimeVegan]

unless someone is the picture of health they should stick to the other arguments for veg*sm when talking about it

 

This is true... And there are plenty of other great reasons to go vegan!

 

From my experience, the best way to inspire people to adopt a healthier and more ethical lifestyle is to simply set a good example.

 

I have found that when people see that you are living in an ethical manner and have a great physique, they will likely become interested and want to learn more.

 

- Chris

[offense74]

This actually goes deeper than that.

A large (not to say huge) percent of fit people are fit to a large part due to genetics. Most people I know that are thin have no clue about health issues. They might think they do, but they don't.

There are people (like me and maybe you) that are struggling every day not to get fat again. There are also alot of people struggling to gain weight at the gym but can't.

I'm slightly overweight so people generally don't come to me for health or fitness advice. Instead they go to the guy gobbling down casein like there's no tomorrow that will probably have a quadruple bypass at the age of 50.

 

Here's the kicker: If you go ask one of the "fit" guys at the gym, or one of the bigger guys and then go ask one of the smaller or not as fit guys it's very likely that they're using the same references for nutritional advice (i.e. Twinlab or Met-RX or their sponsored magazines). They probably eat about the same thing and they probably workout as often. Everybody is asking the fit guy what he does so they can imitate but there are no questions for the struggling guy so they know what not to imitate. It's like making a scientific study without any reference group. It's pointless.

 

I do think it's in everybody's interest that as many vegans as possible try to take care of themselves so that it is obvious that a vegan diet can be adequate for health and fitness. But but more importantly we need to inform ourselves so that we know what we're talking about.

[robert]

What do "you all" think of veg*ns who are obviously not fit and who have an unhealthy appearance spouting off about how veg*sm is great for your health as well as weight control?

 

A fact is a fact, no matter who speaks it.

 

However, I have seen people do this and I have seen other people ridicule them behind their back later. I have also heard a few people conclude that the health and weight control argument for veg*sm is bunk because a heavy/way thin/unhealthy looking person spouted off abut the health benefits of veg*sm.

 

A few years ago when I was heavy due to some injuries a coworker who was also a friend put the matter of me giving fitness advice beyond a certain point to me bluntly....in private. It really hurt, but I am glad I was told.

 

A registered dietitian who speaks at Summerfest made a smilar point to a big audience he was talking to. He told the crowd that if you have an obvious weight or health issue you shouldn't go around talking about health and veg*sm as both you and veg*sm will be judged negatively.

 

I'm on a non-veg*n web board where this vegetarian woman is always bragging how she is a health nut being into yoga, massage and have gotten several boyfriends to lose weight by convincing them to go vegetarian. She has posted pictures of herself and she is quite rotund.

 

So what do all of you think about this kind of situation?

 

My personal view is that it is wrong for people to judge people.....and advice this way....but, it seems to be a fact of life. IMHO unless someone is the picture of health they should stick to the other arguments for veg*sm when talking about it.

 

Opinions?

 

You know what?...........I see this all the time in Portland (lots of unhealthy looking vegans here) and it actually bothers me.

 

I understand that facts are facts and logical info is logical info, but sometimes there are very poor representatives for the vegan lifestyle out there promoting the "health" benefits, and I don't like it very much. I'm too nice to tell these people but maybe I should. It will sting a bit, but some people need to hear this. It doesn't look good and doesn't do us a lot of positive work.

 

In fact, one of the main reasons I'm back on top of my training and nutrition programs is because I'm speaking all over the country about being healthy and happy. (as I tend to be and look like examples of both).

 

I'm still in "good" shape and I "cover up" a bit when I give presentations so I don't feel too bad about my appearance as I represented the vegan lifestyle all over the country. But the better I look, more fit and healthy I look, the better I will be received when I speak.

 

Thanks for bringing this up. I think it is pretty important. I say leave the "giving health" advice to a large scale audience to those who walk the walk and talk the talk and look like what they are talking about.

 

Sure you can be fit and not have a clue about what you're talking about, but most people in that category don't find themselves talking to large groups, but rather online on forums or in small group or one on one discussions.

 

Everyone gets judged, that is just the way it is. Make sure your health (appearance, physique, energy levels, etc.) can back it up before you go spouting off to others about how to live.

 

 

P.S.

 

I think it is great to have all types of vegans.......skinny, fat, etc. just like the rest of the population so everyone can associate with a certain type of vegan......but when it comes to talking about health, especially to the public, I think you need to look the part. I truly believe that it can do more harm than good if one does not look healthy and is trying to represent the vegan lifestyle from a health standpoint to the public.

[bronco]

What do "you all" think of veg*ns who are obviously not fit and who have an unhealthy appearance spouting off about how veg*sm is great for your health as well as weight control?

I'd say the main point is not if the person saying such things look healthy or not, cause saying that all vegan diets are great for your health is simply not true. You can eat a healthy vegan diet as well as an unhealthy. Same about the weight control, saying that you will automatically be in control of your weight if you follow a vegan diet is not true. I dont think making generalisations like that is good for veganism, cause if somebody thinks that just going vegan will solve there problem, there is a big risk they will fail and drop out of veganism. And then of course they will start bad mouthing veganism .

Personally I would rather say that a vegan diet can be just as healthy (or even healthier) than any other diet, and just as effective for weight control.

 

On the other hand if people are saying that it is possible to be a great athlete on a vegan diet, it does of course help if they themselves are proof of that .

[Richard]

I think it is incorrect to say that veganism is inherently more healthy than non-veganism. In themselves, neither is inherently 'healthy', since you could eat total crap in both if you chose to. But having said that, if someone is unhealthy or unfit, and is talking about how fruits, vegetables and seeds etc are good for you, I don't see a problem with that. If they're going into specifics, which are factual, then it can't be argued with really. If they're claiming that they do these things, then that's where it's nonsensical, they must be doing something wrong if they're overweight or whatever.

[damdaman]

This is an interesting topic for vegans to discuss.

 

Basically this is why I decided to start working out. I was a very passionate new vegan, and despite the fact that I'd been skinny (really skinny) my whole life, whenever I'd talk to someone about veganism their mind would automatically equate my skinniness with veganism. I could talk till blue in the face with all the logic and facts I could muster about protein and nutrition, etc, and nothing would change the impression people got that I was too skinny because I was vegan.

 

So, I realized that as a vegan I had to work twice as hard to represent veganism well. I believe that I have a responsibility to represent it well. And while this may mean different things to different people, I wish more vegans made the effort to represent it well.

 

Ultimately I believe that since we're the minority, we're automatically going to be judged more critically. This is not fair, but it is reality, thus we must work harder to be not just in good shape and general good health, but in great shape and great health, to overcome people biases.

 

Nowadays I can speak with confidence, with the evidence to back it up, when someone starts asking me about protein, iron or nutrition. It's much harder for them to argue with the evidence before their eyes that clearly I am getting enough protein and I'm thriving, not just surviving. They still sometimes TRY, but it's much harder to ignore the facts.

 

This is a big motivation that keeps me training.

[pamela]

One reason I decided to lose weight and get fit was because I wanted to be a good example of a vegan, so people would take me seriously. I have found since I started running and doing well, and as my appearance continues to improve, people take me even more seriously. It's now one of my top goals to ensure I am a glowing example of a healthy and happy vegan.

 

Veganism isn't a magical elixir to good health any more than omnis seem to think meat is. But I think a vegan diet done properly is the ultimate health-giving choice. In my own life I try to strike a balance between consuming the vast majority of my calories in the form of highly nutritionally dense food, and also showing people I can junk out a bit too just like "normal" people and that I'm not "deprived." One thing about minimalist raw food diets is most regular people look at that (and so do I) and see only deprivation.

 

But yeah, if you're clearly not healthy, it's a bad idea to go around trumpeting the health benefits of being vegan. People will take any excuse they can find not to join us, unfortunately.

[Odidnetne]

It's funny to note just who will defend how healthy meat eating is. I've had literally morbidly obese people tell me how I'm going to die without meat.

[veggieprincess]

Last weekend, I was having a convo with one of the sales people at the gym I work at.

 

We were talking about protein and I mentioned that I was Vegan.... and he said, "You don't look like a Vegan... you look alot healthier".

 

We have to keep in mind that is how alot of Non-Vegans think.... that we are unhealthy. For me, it's an excellent motivational tool... to keep up a very healthy, fit appearance to debunk this attitude.

 

I don't know, I think the more that we can be calm, patient and understanding with myths that people have about Veganism, the more we can slowly change people's minds. That is why I try very hard to never get indignant, angry or self-righteous about my views.

 

I feel that living by example and having people come to you because they "want what you have"... is the most effective tool and constantly keeps me motivated to keep it up

[Odidnetne]

Last weekend, I was having a convo with one of the sales people at the gym I work at.

 

We were talking about protein and I mentioned that I was Vegan.... and he said, "You don't look like a Vegan... you look alot healthier".

 

We have to keep in mind that is how alot of Non-Vegans think.... that we are unhealthy. For me, it's an excellent motivational tool... to keep up a very healthy, fit appearance to debunk this attitude.

 

I don't know, I think the more that we can be calm, patient and understanding with myths that people have about Veganism, the more we can slowly change people's minds. That is why I try very hard to never get indignant, angry or self-righteous about my views.

 

I feel that living by example and having people come to you because they "want what you have"... is the most effective tool and constantly keeps me motivated to keep it up

 

It is hard to not get indignant, angry or self-righteous, though it can get a bit frustrating before any of those.

[robert]

Oh man.....I wish I had more time to respond. This is one of my favorite topics and something I always address when I talk around the country.

 

I always talk about the fact that "just because it's vegan, it doesn't mean it's good for you."

 

I talk a lot about "thriving" vs. "getting by"

 

I talk about how we represent our lifestyle and are we:

 

Angry because we're vegan (angry all the time about animal suffering)

 

or

 

Happy because we're vegan.

 

I also talk about how we look, act, etc. because if we put ourselves out there in the public eye and establish the fact that we follow a vegan lifestyle, we are going to be judged and we need to represent this lifestyle well.

 

This is one of the main topics I talk about because there are lots of images people have in their minds about vegans and many of them are TRUE! Many are not true, but many are, and I try to challenge people to represent this lifestyle in a positive light.

 

I'm in a hurry but this is one of my new favorite threads!

 

I'll be back later to agree/argue with many of you

[bronco]

Angry because we're vegan (angry all the time about animal suffering)

 

or

 

Happy because we're vegan.

I think we should be happy that we're vegan and angry (preferably in a constructive way) about the fact that not everybody are vegan .

[robert]

Yeah, I agree, but it's about how we carry ourselves and interact with others.

 

For example, in Portland, where we have more vegans than perhaps anywhere, a lot of people are annoyed by the high vegan population because they say, "vegans are the angriest people I've ever met." That doesn't give the lifestyle or movement a good reputation.

 

I agree that we should carry a certain amount of anger or frustration with us but we have to accept the fact that if we are publicly announcing that we're vegan (speaking, wearing a t-shirt, demonstrating, etc.) we are an example of what veganism is and stands for, to those who witness us.

 

It's like that with any group. Any time you take a stand for something (which is very good in my opinion to do so, about anything you're passionate about) you have to understand you're "on stage" and being judged. How do you want to look? How will your actions help reduce animal suffering?

 

Leading by a positive example, being a healthy, happy, fit, friendly person has been the best way I've been able to promote this lifestyle. It may not work for everyone, and it may not fit everyone's personality or body type, but I'm telling you, what a difference it can make when you're "not what they expected."

 

I'll be back to agree/argue more later.....gotta go now!......

[beforewisdom]

It's funny to note just who will defend how healthy meat eating is. I've had literally morbidly obese people tell me how I'm going to die without meat.

 

I had that happen to me a few years ago in my dot.com. Some guy ( otherwise nice, interesting, etc ) was going off like a know-it-all about vegetarians, saying they were all fat. He was so morbidly obese he couldn't sit right because his stomach and his chins got in the way.

[robert]

This happens ALL the time to me. It can be quite funny too, since I am a former successful 5-sport athlete and current competitive natural bodybuilder.

 

But that is how people are....more like sheeple, just following the crowd blindly.

[beforewisdom]

Last weekend, I was having a convo with one of the sales people at the gym I work at.

 

We were talking about protein and I mentioned that I was Vegan.... and he said, "You don't look like a Vegan... you look alot healthier".

 

I was standing in line for a sandwich a few weeks ago. Behind me were two college guys talking about a really fat vegan guy they knew. I got the impression he was obese, not just carrying a few extra pounds like most of us do. They weren't mocking him with a vengence with the idea of dissing veganism, but they were having a laugh at his expense. One guy mentioned to the other that all he ever saw this guy eat was french fries and the guy half jokingly admitted it. The other friend replied back "yah, that makes sense, I thought all they ate were salads so I couldn't see why he looks so fat and greasy".

 

Granted, this is off topic as the absent french fry vegan didn't sound like he was spouting off about health.

[Richard]

Yeah, at university a girl found out I was vegan, and said she didn't think I looked vegan since I wasn't skinny. I just laughed, and said there is no reason why a vegan would be skinny. I went on to say that I wanted to lose weight in fact, and she said I shouldn't because I was a good size. In a way it was a good conversation, but mainly it just reminds me of how ignorant people can be sometimes.

[beforewisdom]

I understand that facts are facts and logical info is logical info, but sometimes there are very poor representatives for the vegan lifestyle out there promoting the "health" benefits, and I don't like it very much. I'm too nice to tell these people but maybe I should. It will sting a bit, but some people need to hear this. It doesn't look good and doesn't do us a lot of positive work.

 

I think what that vegan RD did at Summerfest was very smart. By being very blunt to a large audience of veg*ns he got that point out, but since he was addressing an audience instead of an individual I don't think anyone was offended.

 

He didn't dwell on the point either.

 

He just said pretty much what you did. Facts are facts, but right or wrong people will judge you and veganism by how you look. Unless you look like a fitness buff don't go on to people about the health benefits of veganism.

[bronco]

For example, in Portland, where we have more vegans than perhaps anywhere, a lot of people are annoyed by the high vegan population because they say, "vegans are the angriest people I've ever met." That doesn't give the lifestyle or movement a good reputation.

 

I agree that we should carry a certain amount of anger or frustration with us but we have to accept the fact that if we are publicly announcing that we're vegan (speaking, wearing a t-shirt, demonstrating, etc.) we are an example of what veganism is and stands for, to those who witness us.

I agree, anger as a source of motivation and energy can be good, but being angry when interacting with other people is usually not useful.

[beforewisdom]

I always talk about the fact that "just because it's vegan, it doesn't mean it's good for you."

 

Yep, concrete is vegan.

 

People also confuse "healthy" with "impossible to get from eating too much of", which they also do with "vegan".

 

I had a neighbor who is a vegan RD. We were talking one day when a morbidly obese vegan musician in our community came up. It was her belief that he was a "chegan" ( cheating vegan" ) because while vegans can get fat vegan foods could not support weights as this guys. I told her I was shocked at her opinion since she was an intelligent RD. I told her that I as a calorie counter could find many calorie dense vegan foods that pack a lot of energy into tiny portions that look innocent to many people. I added that all it takes to put on an extra 20 lbs of fat a year is an extra 250 calories a day.........the equivalent of one serving of potato chips. Bags of chips from vending machines have 2, the big supermarket bags have 7 - 10.

 

If I wanted to get morbidly obese on vegan food like this guy all I would have to do is eat a bag of chips a day, not exercise, and do that for 1-2 years to cross the obesity line.

 

I really wish calorie counting didn't have a negative stigma.

 

People have such medeval beliefs about food and energy because of that.

 

One of them being the myth of the "slow metabolism". Most people don't have a slow metabolism that will keep them from comfortable losing weight.......they just literally have no idea how much energy they are truly taking in.

 

All it takes is +- 250 calories a day to make a big difference by the end of the year and a major difference compounded over several years. It is like tracking your finances. Five dollars and ten bucks there doesn't look like much but once you write things down you see loads of opportunities to recover hundreds of dollars with only the smallest of saracfices.

 

End of sermon!

[hsorlando]

When I started out as a vegan I wasn't a very healthy one, but I learned quickly.And as I learned about nutrition, I'm still learning, I get a lot healthier. I think a lot of the problems with unhealthy vegans is that they don't know what is vegan when they start out. So they eat a lot of junk that is vegan like white bread, potato chips, cookies, white pasta, white rice, prepackaged foods, and a lot of other foods that have white flour, tons of sugar, and bad fats, so we ned fit, healthy vegans to help them. Not everyone is going to be a fitness guru, but we can all learn to eat better. I just hope that these vegans will be receptive to a better more healthy way of eating.

[Guest]

I think its an obligation of vegans to be more healthy than non vegans. If you are a vegan and don't adopt a healthy diet then don't promote veganism as being more healthy...focus on the animals and never mention its healthier. As for veganism being inherantly healthier I think it is. See who lives longer...the person eating Oreos or the Newman's Organic vegan version. Both my not live very long but the person eating the Newman O's will be healthier.

[cubby2112]

I agree with the idea that if someone isn't fit and is a vegan, he or she shouldn't go spouting off about how inherently superior a vegan diet is to an omni one. It is great to have vegans who are of all body types, I agree. I know it annoys me when someone who is skinnier or fatter than me insists that my diet is insufficient, so I imagine an unfit vegan bragging about the superiority of a plant-based diet would irk plenty of people.

[DV]

This is a great topic with some great responses!

 

One of the reasons I work out is specifically to avoid being a hypocrite. I am not an angry vegan and because of that (plus nutritional knowledge and a healthy look) I feel that I can positively represent veganism.

 

My biggest problem is that I have a really hard time putting on muscle mass, which gets blamed on my veganism if someone finds out I'm vegan. If someone doesn't know I'm vegan then they usually blame it on my height and sex (5'10" female). I was hoping to compete next year but I think it will take me 2 years to put on enough muscle mass. I look forward to promoting veganism when I'm in top form. Although just being lean and slightly muscled is really enough when many of my 40ish contemporaries look like hell.