Pirate's Tavern is Closing Friday December 7, 2007

[robert]

I just learned about this when I got home tonight. I assume it is accurate. My friend sent me the e-mail announcement:

 

To all,

 

Im sad to report that Pirates Tavern is closing, and Friday (today, by the

time many of you see this) will be their last day in business. Jill and I

just ate there tonight, and the food was great and everything is much less

expensive than it was earlier. Unfortunately, the reason for their closure

was evident, as there were only a handful of people in the place.

 

If you get a chance, head out to Pirates on Friday for as last meal and a

chance to say goodbye to Johnny Zukle and wish him well.

 

Thanks to Keith Idings for alerting me to the fact that Pirates Tavern is

closing. Keith posted a nice entry about this on the Northwest VEG forum.

You might want to check it out and add your own comments.

[robert]

Here is the forum post from the www.nwveg.org forum.

 

It seems that "some" of these issues fall into the "vegans bashing vegans" theme I am so worried about.

 

Ironically, when I think of this issue, some of the places listed below immediately come to mind.

 

I know there were MANY other issues with the place that is closing but in fairness part of it did have to do with "vegans bashing vegans", though a lot of the dislike for the place that is closing was for other reasons too.

------------

 

 

Local news: Pirates Tavern is giving up after their September makeover failed to bring in more business. A tragic loss, after the place got so close to perfection. I really liked the new improvements - some healthier menu items featuring all-veg dinner dishes too, like beans-rice-veggies, and a new budget all-hours menu with a 'fast food' motif, for very reasonable price ($6 all inclusive). They also added a pool table and a movie room, and a new fast ordering scheme where you ordered and paid upfront, then got served at a much faster pace, plus you were free to go when done eating because you had already paid. The place really seemed to be picking up some energy with the fine tuning.

 

But Johnny says it fell flat. There hasn't been a stream of 'regulars' to keep afloat - the overhead is pretty steep for the low customer turnout. I personally saw that a few people worked to undermine the restaurant's credibility, and I think it was undeserved. A couple of disgruntled employees who were fired spread unrebutted rumors, and a customer with a child supervision problem started a hate campaign after being asked to control her kids.

 

Our NW Veg experience wasn't perfect because of the delay we experienced, but in fairness, they were trying to accommodate us and that night was the biggest customer count they had experienced. I think we needed to be more supportive and compromising on the commercial expectations as they got going. Vegan restaurants are special places because they are unusual and need dedicated support to survive. Johnny says that the next NW veg visit only had a few diners show up, and none of the members have been regulars (unless you count my family).

 

I heard the criticism that they were trying to be too much like a regular family restaurant, with too much faux meat on the menu. But that was their plan all along, to try to be a place for everyone where the meat clingers could still feel comfortable. Really sad that they are closing. We liked them for that exact reason, that our 12-yr old could invite his friends along to eat out with him and they could order fast-food americana and still be vegan. We did that about twice a month, and we were really hoping to be able to keep going there because the postive rumors were starting to spread, that people were having a positive experience going there.

 

Friday, December 7th is the last Pirate's night there. That might be at least a good opportunity to demonstrate to them that they are appreciated, and wish them luck, whatever happens next. The likely lesson is that all our vegan restaurants could go the same route. I hear that VegeThai is saying that they are barely making it, and Veganopolis is starting to dwindle, maybe up for sale. I would much rather go to a vegan-only restaurant than to compromise the food integrity where meat and veggies are prepared in the same space.

[Michelle]

Bummer... I liked that place. And pirates!

[Odidnetne]

I thought it was kind of cool, even though I felt the "fast food" effects after eating there.

[Guest]

This stinks. I would have really liked to go there again. And outside of the not so healthy menu I didn't experience any of their problems(although I only went there once). Weird thing is I don't hear many people complain about Mighty-O. Its not like Organic Donuts are much healthier than non organic vegan burgers. I'm not complaining about either and both have their place...and at least you can't get any dairy cream at Pirates Tavern like you can at Mighty-O.

[loveliberate]

Thanks for posting this Robert. I am sad to see the place closing and had hoped that they could resolve &/or overcome the problems they were having.

 

That said, in all honesty I am surprised that they lasted as long as they did. The location is iffy at best, prices were extremely unreasonable, the quality of the food often left much to be desired and even if the worst of the rumors about the owner are untrue, there seems to be a very worrisome tendency among some folks to ignore or minimize real problems.

 

Personally, I really liked the space in a lot of ways but never felt real comfortable there and rarely found enough of a reason to go...

 

I'd REALLY like to hear more about this from any & every one involved:

"I personally saw that a few people worked to undermine the restaurant's credibility, and I think it was undeserved. A couple of disgruntled employees who were fired spread unrebutted rumors, and a customer with a child supervision problem started a hate campaign after being asked to control her kids."

I dont know much at all about this and have heard virtually nothing first hand, I tend to get real skeptical real quick when I read stuff like that. Until & unless I have good reason to be otherwise, I am most sympathetic towards the workers + the mama/kids involved.

 

I strongly prefer to give my money & support to veg*n places but I'm definitely not going to go out of my way for places with unreasonably high prices, so-so quality/taste/etc, owners that dont treat their workers well, places where I've gone repeatedly but still rarely feel welcome, places where the staff have consistently shitty/aloof/snobby attitudes - and the list goes on. I'm sure many of you can guess at the places I'm thinking of & have your own similar experiences.

 

It is really sad to have to say but I can definitely see how many folks who would otherwise be open to eating veg food or even becoming vegan would be strongly turned off by more than a couple of local veg places...

 

All that said, when vegan & veg places are great or even just ok, we should make sure we do our part to keeping them in business & helping them succeed. On that note, it looks like one of my personal favorites: the Red & Black Cafe - should re-open within a few weeks in a location just down the block from the vegan mini-mall!!!

The R&B collective is strongly considering becoming entirely vegan - let's be sure to encourage them!

[robert]

Good post love.

 

I'm sure there is much more too it. I agree with a lot of your points and I think there were a lot of reasons to be critical of the restaurant (nothing to do with veganism) but as you mentioned, food price/quality, restaurant location, etc.

 

I found it interesting to hear that some other vegan places in town may be in trouble?

 

This post came from someone at NW VEG on the www.nwveg.org forum. I have no idea who, but you could join the forum, or if you're already there, send a PM to learn more. That is the best way to get answers since we can track down the poster that way.

 

I'm still 100% certain that "vegans bashing vegans" was part of the issue and is still part of an issue with a number of places in town. You know I'm even caught up in the middle of some vegan feuds right now, but because of the way I've been treated by some people in this community, I'm not ready to "give in" at the moment. I still promote the heck out of most vegan places in town and support them very well with events I put on, meetings I have, and my own purchasing dollars.

 

But anyway........I'll go over there tonight before or after my leg workout.

 

Anyone else planning on going?

[xdarthveganx]

honeestly good riddance. I hated that place, and the owner always rubbed me the wrong way. I think what it comes down to is that we as vegans have a lot of good quality food options in Portland. Pirate's had some of the worst, least thought out food ive ever had. It had nothing to with too much faux meat, and everything to do with them half-assing everything they did.

 

As far as veganopolis this is another place that I feel has only so-so food quality. Not one thing in that place jumps out at me and makes me want to eat there. Also from what I understand the owners are not the nicest people in the whole world and have alienated numerous people in the Portland vegan community who only wished to help them.

 

As far as vege-thai I will be sad to see this place go, but to be honest im not CRAZY about the food their either. I think its much better than the aforementioned places above but that isnt really saying much. In a town like Portland, having food isn't enough. You have to make GOOD food, that stands out above the rest, just like any other regular restaurant has to do to compete with those around it.

[robert]

Good post darth!

 

I think these are very very good points!

 

Food Quality and how you feel while you're there (I've heard multiple people say they feel uncomfortable at some of these places) and at least a couple of you have mentioned that here too.

 

So it makes sense.

 

low quality food and low quality service/friendliness can easily lead to low-quality production by the restaurant or place of business.

 

Places like Blossoming Lotus and Proper Eats have some of the friendliest owners and great food (in my opinion) and they seem to thrive.

 

Good call on some of the main issues with certain places in town. I'd love to see many places that serve vegan food succeed.

[Odidnetne]

Exactly, I can't imagine Blossoming Lotus or Proper Eats going anywhere any time soon.

[Zack]

Randall probably remembers how unhappy i was when they charged me like 4-6 dollars for a bowl of soup that I literally got 4-5 bites out of...that's not sarcasm either... it didn't even taste good. =\

 

[Aaron]

Vege thai closing? Hm. Hope something new opens in that space that's veg. friendly.

[offense74]

Oh, poor Portlanders, now what are you going to do for food?

[loveliberate]

Yo Aaron & other PDX folks - have ya'll checked the Chaos Cafe on Powell? If ya havent, please do!

It's 90% vegan, has friendly staff, good food & hosts a variety of events. Neat artsy place from the owners of Village Merchants over on Division.

[Aaron]

Thanks for the headsup LL! : )

[robert]

Oh, poor Portlanders, now what are you going to do for food?

 

Hey man

 

Yeah, I know, we're losing a few places, but we also gained a bunch of new places like The Bye and Bye, Nutshell, and others that are opening up all the time.

 

Of course the Portland Vegan Mini Mall is open now too, in fact I was there today

 

So, nothing to worry about in Portland. We stand strong and we will support those who need the support and use our good judgement to keep the vegan community here thriving.

 

So don't feel too bad for us

[robert]

Jessifly and I went to Pirate's Tavern for their final night of business. It was actually an emotional night for me as I talked with the owner because I know how much time, energy, money and hope he put into it. It is sad anytime someone's dream doesn't come true.

 

The owner worked there 7 days a week, 16 hours a day, and his heart was in the right place. He's an ethical vegan for 23 years and really tried to make a go of it here in Portland. Tonight I went to thank him and it was a sad night for me.

 

Sure, I didn't go there all the time, but I did host multiple events there, sent friends and family there and was there for other gatherings. I know they had their problems and their location was questionable from the get-go, but I think it was great to have another 100 % vegan restaurant here in town while they lasted.

 

I really wish things would have worked out better for them, as I know the owner and some employees personally, but that is how business goes.

 

I'm not sure what the future holds for the Johnny, but I wish him luck. He had good intentions and was focused on the issue that matters so much to so many of us, but too many odds were against him this time around.

[CountAgranoff]

Yo Aaron & other PDX folks - have ya'll checked the Chaos Cafe on Powell? If ya havent, please do!

It's 90% vegan, has friendly staff, good food & hosts a variety of events. Neat artsy place from the owners of Village Merchants over on Division.

 

I don't know where that 90% vegan myth started,I've heard several people say that. I think the owners of the restaurant must of started that myth but Cari I looked at the menu on-line and it's not 90% vegan. I'd be surprised if it's 50% vegan. Tons of eggs, cheese. and I remember at one time seeing tuna on the menu. Unless they changed it.

 

Vege Thai has pretty good food. it's not the best but I'm sure their troubles have to do with the cost of their location.

 

-David

[CountAgranoff]

Well robert I think you being too kind(you are a friendly person!) He may have been ethically vegan, but you know you've heard the man say questionable things with your own ears. Others we know also have heard him say questionable things. It's Karma I'm afraid.

 

It could've survived the shitty location, but the more times racist statements and accusations of sexual harassment happen that doesn't do well for a place already has rotten food. most Vegans care about ethics beyond animals. the owner of crueltyfree.com is learning that right now. He is losing all kinds of members after bashing queers and transgenders. When in doubt always favor progressive ethics vegan busisness onwers ought to understand that.

 

-David

[Guest]

I only went there once and never experienced that but I've got to trust it since so many accusations can't all be unfounded. As for my experience it wasn't all the Piratey(as many have stated) but I had no complaints about the food. Its junky and thats what you should expect there...after all its a bar/restaurant. I had bites from three different plates and a shake and was quite pleased. The prices were a different story...especially since rent probably isn't all that bad where the location was but I've paid a lot more for a lot less. I'm hoping this guy learns his lesson and changes as a person. And in the future I'd love to go back to a second installment of Pirate's Tavern.

[CountAgranoff]

Well we were talking about on the vegan represent board and I think what we need is a Vegan ninja restaurant. Think about it. better than pirates.

 

Japanese menu. Servers in ninja outfits, a big screen TV playing english ninja movies. Come on! somebody wants to do it! you could call it the Ninja's den.

 

-David

[gkleinman]

Its sad news to hear that Pirate's Tavern closed. The kids really liked it and heck it was a friggin pirate vegan restaurant... so even if it wasn't my #1 favorite veg restaurant in town it was still a nice part of the vegan landscape in Portland.

 

I think the issue was that despite good intentions it just never seemed to find its groove, and some of the 'tweaks' just didn't seem to work out. I really enjoyed their Vegan Club sandwich but it vanished from the lunch menu to become a dinner item. Also for a family of 5 it got to be spendy.

 

The restaurant business is a brutal one, if you don't have the right combinations of things you just aren't going to make it. It's just sad to see a vegan place close no matter how imperfect it was.

Edited February 6, 2008 by gkleinman

[robert]

I think you said it well Geoff. I talked to a business friend of mine and lack of planning was the bottom line issue.

 

I'm sad to see it close too. In fact, I had an emotional few moments with the owner and staff as we said goodbye to Pirate's Tavern 2 days ago. I just saw how much effort, hope and money was put into it and anytime that doesn't work out, it is sad to me.

 

But it came down to business planning, branding, and everything else that goes along with business. I thanked them for being here and for trying to make a positive difference.

[Guest]

Do you know if they started that place with cash??? I couldn't imagine a bank giving a loan for a restaurant out there. It really was a stupid place to put it and even with proper planning outside of the location it may have been doomed to failure even if it weren't a vegan restaurant. I think they saw the layout of the place and that sold them on it...the never though of people actually having to get there and the fact that they would get no drive/walk by business which most places rely on.

[tofutod]

i loved their fish sandwiches. what am i going to do now?