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MY ABS( Do I need surgery?)


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I don't know if you missed this or not but most of the people posting here on this thread have been overweight. I wouldn't say what they have to say isn't worth listening too. Most people here have experience worth looking into.

 

I assume this is addressing my rant...and I do understand that many folks here have been overweight. I also really enjoy the forum and have found it to be mostly full of incredibly positive and motivational (sometimes hilarious) commentary! I know many folks on the forum personally and they are truly great people.

 

The ultimate basis for my rant is that it is easy on a forum to say something flippant ("e.g. just eat fewer calories..."), something that would never be said face 2 face (or at least not said in that way, so tersely), and not think about the effect on other people. I saw it and it bothered my so I commented on it.

 

It isn't a huge deal but hopefully we can learn from it and be a little more aware going forward (me included).

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If you're looking for something with immediate results, I would recommend trying body wraps. Some of them actually do help tighten up post-weight-loss loose flesh.

 

What is a body wrap?

 

With the one I had quite a few years ago, they wrap you up tightly in what looked like ace bandages soaked in a mineral solution, then have you move around for an hour, while wrapped up like a mummy. It's supposed to help you reduce by detoxing and compressing the fat cells together or something. The website is here: http://www.suddenlyslender.com I know it sounds like a bunch of crap, but my jeans were definitely and noticeably looser when I left than they were when I arrived. And it stayed that way, until I gained weight later on - so I don't think it was a dehydrating effect. And it did tighten up the bit of loose skin I had at the time.

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I assume this is addressing my rant...and I do understand that many folks here have been overweight. I also really enjoy the forum and have found it to be mostly full of incredibly positive and motivational (sometimes hilarious) commentary! I know many folks on the forum personally and they are truly great people.

 

The ultimate basis for my rant is that it is easy on a forum to say something flippant ("e.g. just eat fewer calories..."), something that would never be said face 2 face (or at least not said in that way, so tersely), and not think about the effect on other people. I saw it and it bothered my so I commented on it.

 

It isn't a huge deal but hopefully we can learn from it and be a little more aware going forward (me included).

 

Nope I'm not really addressing your rant...that was fine. I know for a fact its not all about calories because if it was I'd be well under -50lbs by now considering how much a train and how much I eat.

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Thanks for all of the advice guys

 

And I do agree with ya Tasha. I wish we could magically look like whatever we wanted. I'd ask for a flawless body, perfectly clean and shiny finger/toe nails, no hair except where I want it, natural pink hair and George Clooney Teeth.

 

But considering the reality of it I can't. So this is what I( Eventually) plan on doing about this.

 

I will list my whole days schedule so in case I can add more stuff please help me with that.

 

6am: Wake Up, Eat Breakfast. Stretch. One Hour Crunches/Sit Ups.

7am: Cardio for one hour( Advice needed on Indoor Cardio I can do)

8am: Shower and get ready for day.

8:30-9am-Arrive at Gym and remain working out until 11PM.

11PM: Lunch

11pm to 12pm: Work out more.

12pm: Shower at gym and get ready for work.

1PM to 9pm: Work at job( Which I am still looking for)

9PM Go home and eat dinner.

9:30PM( Or whenever I am done eating and cooking dinner) Cardio

11PM: Crunches and Sit-Ups for a half an hour.

11:30pm: Shower

12am: Bed

 

 

 

As for my diet I've been working on it profusely in an attempt to make a super healthy diet that works for me. A hybrid raw and cooked.

 

BREAKFAST

Veggie Juice: Tomatoes. Spinach, Carrots, Onions, Celery( Still looking to add more veggies) + Sea Salt( It tastes nasty plain. But if salt is going to work against me I am willing to suffer the nastiness)

Oatmeal: Just plain Oatmeal. Still thinking of things to add to it.

 

LUNCH

Protein Fruit Blend: Soybeans, Oranges, Blue Berries, Apricots, Strawberries,( working on adding other fruits as I think of them) No sugar added. I think the fruit will sweeten it perfectly enough.

Trail Mix: Almonds, Raisans, Walnuts, Cashews( Any other ideas of what I should add?)

 

Dinner: Penne Mein: Cooked Penne Pasta( My Favorite) Tofu, Potatoes, Mushrooms, Spinach, Cilantro, A little bit of soy Sauce( Once again I know it's got Sodium. So if it will not help any I am willing to make this meal with fresh tomotoes and make my own sauce instead) ( And any other ideas of what I can add to the pasta is encouraged )

Grape Juice: Someone once told me( someone here) that since Wine is good for the blood Grape Juice would be too. So I'd be drinking that instead.

 

That's it for now( diet wise) I am still working on it. I won't be able to spend 100+dollars a week on food until I get that job. no one else works in the house we all live on disability.

 

And just for laughs I will include my idea for dessert to see if you all thing if I should leave it in( If I can afford it) or just leave it out( If it's not nessecary)

 

Homemade Soy Ice Cream

Fresh Soybeans turned to soymilk in Soymilk machine. Toss in Ice Cream Maker with fresh fruit( Instead of sugar) and add fresh juiced Vanilla plant( If you can even buy fresh vanilla) and Fresh Coco Bean( I woulnd't have any idea how to juice that)

 

Personally I love my ice cream but I can do without to save money for other stuff and save time.

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Hey Pink,

 

I've never been seriously overweight like some of the others who have been debating the topic, so I can't comment on that.

 

From looking at your schedule, I do have a suggestion to make. If you can find a way to do your cardio first thing in the morning (before eating breakfast) you will probably see way more dramatic results. I did cardio for years at various times of the day and never seemed to cut the fat... When I've been religious about doing it first thing in the morning on an empty stomach (drink some water before and during workout) the fat really starts to melt away.

 

From what I've read, this is because your body doesn't have any carbohydrates to burn first thing in the morning (you haven't eaten in many hours). As a result, your body goes directly to the fat stores (triglycerides) for the energy required to do the work. Some people claim that you burn 300% more body fat this way. I don't know if that claim is accurate, but I do know that the only time I've ever really gotten fast results doing cardio was when I performed it in this manner.

 

I know it sounds crazy, and many people are like "I could never do cardio on an empty stomach..." but many of these people have never tried it. When I first started doing this, I would sometimes experience some nausia or light-headedness during my workout, but it would always go away in a minute or two if I just sucked it up and kept going.

 

Keeping a food log with carb/fat/protein totals for each day helps as well. It's a lot of work, but it does help, and if you can manage that, you could then maybe look into "caloric cycling" which could possibly speed your progress even more.

 

HTH,

Chris

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This is slightly off topic of Dr. Pink's question, but closely enough related that I think he will find it interesting.

 

Some guys who get big stomachs develop a crease in their ab skin similar to the crease people have in their elbows. The crease is between the top the abs and the solar plexus area.

 

Has anyone lost a lot of weight off of their abs and seen that crease go away on its own?

 

If it can go away, is there anything that will speed it up going away?

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Several people gave Dr. Pink the great advice of doing all the fitness work he can (gaining muscle, losing fat, working his abs ) before sitting down to decide on whether or not he wants to consult a plastic surgeon.

 

What body fat percentage would be good for him to achieve before he decides that he has gotten all of the the flab/loose skin tightening he is going to get from exercise?

 

It used to be that the only way to get an accurate body fat measurement was to take a dip in a water tank. Lots of fun, I did one about 15 years ago.

 

I've heard that there are now scales that can measure body fat. What is their margin of error? What are the good brands and models?

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I don't know if you missed this or not but most of the people posting here on this thread have been overweight. I wouldn't say what they have to say isn't worth listening too. Most people here have experience worth looking into.

 

I assume this is addressing my rant...and I do understand that many folks here have been overweight. I also really enjoy the forum and have found it to be mostly full of incredibly positive and motivational (sometimes hilarious) commentary! I know many folks on the forum personally and they are truly great people.

 

The ultimate basis for my rant is that it is easy on a forum to say something flippant ("e.g. just eat fewer calories..."), something that would never be said face 2 face (or at least not said in that way, so tersely), and not think about the effect on other people. I saw it and it bothered my so I commented on it.

 

It isn't a huge deal but hopefully we can learn from it and be a little more aware going forward (me included).

 

 

It was probably on me. Sorry Ravi and Pink, I didn't mean to be rude in my posts. My personal trainers and boot camp coach told to do this when I was struggling with being over weight (believe it or not ) in my childhood/teens. I got teased, picked on, name calling, no boyfriends etc... But I lost 20lbs and keep it off since. With training and eating properly it worked.

So sorry everyone I know what it feels like to be hurt.

I'll try better to watch what I write next time

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This is going to be a LONG one, but I'll be very detailed:

 

I will list my whole days schedule so in case I can add more stuff please help me with that.

 

6am: Wake Up, Eat Breakfast. Stretch. One Hour Crunches/Sit Ups.

7am: Cardio for one hour( Advice needed on Indoor Cardio I can do)

8am: Shower and get ready for day.

8:30-9am-Arrive at Gym and remain working out until 11PM.

11PM: Lunch

11pm to 12pm: Work out more.

12pm: Shower at gym and get ready for work.

1PM to 9pm: Work at job( Which I am still looking for)

9PM Go home and eat dinner.

9:30PM( Or whenever I am done eating and cooking dinner) Cardio

11PM: Crunches and Sit-Ups for a half an hour.

11:30pm: Shower

12am: Bed

 

Holy crap, that's WAY more time exercising than you really need to put in. Here's my bit - when I was FINALLY down to 192 lbs. (I was shooting for 185ish and leaner), I was overtraining and undereating, and my progress came to a halt. I have the feeling that you may be on that same path. For example, I was running for 30-60 minutes per day, then weight training for 60-90 minutes on top of that, all the while eating only around 2000 cal/day. For me, there was NO WAY my body could handle it, and it clung to my fat storage like nothing else, and in the end I only lost muscle but couldn't lose any more fat. During that time I was either eating very clean (for an omni diet) or doing a ketogenic diet (think Atkins) and neither thing helped. If you put too much demand on your body it CAN still cling to fat even if you're at a severe caloric defeceit. Let me give another example -

 

In the town I lived in a few years back, there was a woman who obviously suffered from EXTREME anorexia who insisted on running for what I can only guess was a minimum of 1-2 hours every day. She looked skeletal in the face, but when you'd see her arms and legs, there was loose skin and some fat still on her that did NOT go away. At the same time, she had no muslce tone at all - her arms and legs looked like pipe cleaners, totally stick thin but still, no definition whatsoever, just loose skin and fat covering bone. I've seen similar things on TV shows with people who are anorexic - many times, muscle will waste away faster than fat from the excessive working out and lack of calories, and while those people are happier to see a low number on their scale, they don't have a grasp over how they could have eaten/trained to look far better and actually lose the fat without sacrificing their muscle content at the same time. Remember, a drop in your weight is not an indicator of progress of the good sort - getting into the undereating/overtraining mindset is a bad way to go, so here's my suggestion for an altered plan:

 

6am: Wake Up, Eat Breakfast. Stretch. DROP THE EXCESSIVE CRUNCHES - THEY'RE NOT REDUCING ANY MIDSECTION FAT, DO OTHER AB WORK LATER.7am: Cardio for one hour( Advice needed on Indoor Cardio I can do)

8am: Shower and get ready for day.

8:30-9am-Arrive at Gym and remain working out until 10 PM (adjusted time to reduce training. IF YOU'VE ALREADY DONE YOUR CARDIO, JUST SPEND 30-60 MINUTES LIFTING, THERE'S NO NEED TO GO OVERBOARD HERE AND TRAIN BEYOND THAT RIGHT NOW.

11PM: Lunch

11pm to 12pm: Work out more. NO NEED FOR THIS AT ALL. YOU'VE ALREADY TRAINED TWICE, MORE IS NOT BETTER.

12pm: Shower at gym and get ready for work.

1PM to 9pm: Work at job( Which I am still looking for)

9PM Go home and eat dinner.

9:30PM( Or whenever I am done eating and cooking dinner) Cardio NO REAL NEED FOR A 2ND CARDIO SESSION, YOU'RE JUST PUTTING YOUR BODY UNDER TOO MUCH STRESS AND OVERTRAINING.

11PM: Crunches and Sit-Ups for a half an hour. DO THE AB WORK FOR MAYBE 5-15 MINUTES DURING YOUR TIME AT THE GYM. FOR MOST PEOPLE, TRAINING ABS 3x/DAY IS NO MORE EFFECTIVE THAN TRAINING THEM ONCE PER DAY. LIKE ANY MUSCLE GROUP, THEY DO NEED SOME TIME TO RECOVER.

11:30pm: Shower

12am: Bed

 

Like, I said, you're training WAY too much. I can see a lot of cardio if you were training for a specific endurance sport that required it, but for your goals of primarily losing more fat and trying to gain some muscle, you're never going to get there with the excessive volume you're putting in. In the end, I'd say that you should confine your cardio to 30-60 minutes and your weight training to around the same, maybe more if you only get to train a few times per week, but if you go to the gym every day (or, most days), then you don't need to go this overboard.

 

Next, on to diet:

 

BREAKFAST

Veggie Juice: Tomatoes. Spinach, Carrots, Onions, Celery( Still looking to add more veggies) + Sea Salt( It tastes nasty plain. But if salt is going to work against me I am willing to suffer the nastiness)

Oatmeal: Just plain Oatmeal. Still thinking of things to add to it.

 

It's not bad, but for my personal tastes, I'd take in a bit more protein if you're going to be doing weight training later on. Never hurts to make sure you're adequately fueled.

 

LUNCH

Protein Fruit Blend: Soybeans, Oranges, Blue Berries, Apricots, Strawberries,( working on adding other fruits as I think of them) No sugar added. I think the fruit will sweeten it perfectly enough.

Trail Mix: Almonds, Raisans, Walnuts, Cashews( Any other ideas of what I should add?)

 

This one's tough to say without knowing the quantity of the foods and the calorie counts. If you're eating just a handful of trail mix, that's definitely not enough. If you've metered out, say, 400-500 calories worth to know what you're getting, then that's better. Same goes for the drink - do you know the calorie and protein content on that specific food? Again, if you're doing any weight training (or, just general sit-ups and resistance work), you're going to need a fair amount of protein for proper recovery, so if you can measure out how much you're getting it's good to know the amounts.

 

Dinner: Penne Mein: Cooked Penne Pasta( My Favorite) Tofu, Potatoes, Mushrooms, Spinach, Cilantro, A little bit of soy Sauce( Once again I know it's got Sodium. So if it will not help any I am willing to make this meal with fresh tomotoes and make my own sauce instead) ( And any other ideas of what I can add to the pasta is encouraged )

Grape Juice: Someone once told me( someone here) that since Wine is good for the blood Grape Juice would be too. So I'd be drinking that instead.

 

Sodium is not a bad thing in moderation, unless you've got high blood pressure or are trying to drain out every last ounce of water for something like a bodybuilding comp or physique photo shoot. Sodium makes things more palatable, and if a little bit makes foods more enjoyable and you don't go overboard, it's not going to have any real impact on your progress.

 

Again, food-wise, it'd be really good to know the amount you're eating and total calories. Without that info, we don't know if you're having a tiny plate or a big bowl, so the more info you can get on this the better.

 

Overall, you're eating some good, clean foods, but man, with your current workout regime there is NO possibility that you're able to give your body adequate fuel and nutrition for optimal fat loss/muscle gain on so little to eat. To ask, have you ever taken the time to measure out calories for each day and come up with a week's worth of totals? I'd strongly suggest starting there and letting us all know what you come up with. I can't envision that it's very high, and remember, you're probably burning 900 -1600 cal./day with all that training, which is probably the bulk of what you're taking in from eating. After that, what's left to fuel your body and keep you going? And, remember from above where I said that if your body goes into starvation mode from eating too little/training to much that it will hold fat more than ever? It looks like you're on that path, so I'd do whatever possible to get off of it ASAP and take a sensible approach. One thing to remember is that, after getting off of an undereating/overtraining program that you've been on for more than a very short while, you may find that you put on a few lbs. at first because your body is FINALLY able to start nourishing itself and wants to store all it can. Think back to caveman times - when food was scarce and people may not have always had something to eat, the body goes into a defensive position once it finally gets a meal and wants to store as much as possible because it doesn't know WHEN it will get fed again. This shocks some people who are scale-obsessed, but with getting on a sensible program, it balances back out soon enough.

 

I think I speak for all of us here when we say that we want to see you succeed, but your training and diet show that you've got a lot to learn in the way of training and nutrition for meeting your goals. I, and many others, will be happy to help out in any way, so either post any info here or PM me and I'll be glad to assist with any input I can offer. Best of luck in your continued work to get the body you're after!

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It was probably on me. Sorry Ravi and Pink, I didn't mean to be rude in my posts. My personal trainers and boot camp coach told to do this when I was struggling with being over weight (believe it or not ) in my childhood/teens. I got teased, picked on, name calling, no boyfriends etc... But I lost 20lbs and keep it off since. With training and eating properly it worked.

So sorry everyone I know what it feels like to be hurt.

I'll try better to watch what I write next time

 

Nope not you Tasha...VP loves Tasha

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It was probably on me. Sorry Ravi and Pink, I didn't mean to be rude in my posts. My personal trainers and boot camp coach told to do this when I was struggling with being over weight (believe it or not ) in my childhood/teens. I got teased, picked on, name calling, no boyfriends etc... But I lost 20lbs and keep it off since. With training and eating properly it worked.

So sorry everyone I know what it feels like to be hurt.

I'll try better to watch what I write next time

 

Nope not you Tasha...VP loves Tasha

 

that was cute.

Tashie loves Potter

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My favorite way to eat oatmeal - is get the "quick" oatmeal... not the instant. Follow directions - it takes like 2-3 minutes to boil the water / liquid and about 4 minutes to cook. It's pretty quick, hence the name "quick oats".

 

-So I bring 1 cup hemp milk + 1/2 cup water to a boil

-turn heat down so it's just at the boiling point (half on my stove)

-add 3/4 cup oatmeal - stir the entire 4 minutes or else it will stick to the bottom of the pot

-at about 1min 20sec left add 1 cup frozen mixed berries / cranberries / cherries

 

It is incredible tasting, super nutritious and quick!

 

Also in my opinion I would ditch the grape juice and stick to water or unsweetened tea if you do caffeine. I just think the juice is too much sugar without the fiber you would get by eating the whole grapes. Oh and one other thing, if you can make it a habit to use only whole grain pasta, I think that would help you out. And healthy snacking throughout the day to keep you blood sugars balanced and energy and metabolism high. An apple here, an apple there, handful of nuts... etc. Good luck man - fortunately I've never been overweight - but I have never been able to achieve great abs and have always had a little pouch on lower abdominal - so I know that suckiness.

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@ Tasha: Don't be silly I didn't find what you said rude at all

 

@ Vegganessentials: Thanks for that long detailed analysis

 

I read it all and fully appreciate the effort it takes to write that much.

 

As for what you need to know about my diet intake. Well I haven't actually began doing it. I'm pre-planing the diet so I can eventually come up with the best diet. Same with the workout. I have not begun it so I don't know if the times will be the same( I might end up working out more in the afternoon if I get hired to work somewhere from 8am to 4pm or 9-5. But as for intake ideas I really only have an idea of how much I'd eat. Not a number content( Yet)

 

Breakfast: I'd use as much veggies as I can put in. I know I'd add a whole bundle of sPinach, 4 tomatoes( To make a long story short I'd fill it up till the blender was full) But since more protein in the morning was advised I guess I could add some Soy beans to the shake. Not sure if I want to use Vega yet( I want to cut down on the processed foods)

 

I'd find the best high protein Oatmeal I can find.( Any ideas on high protein foods I can add to this let me know)

 

And here's another idea( If I can afford it) Homemade Peanut Butter Bars. Made with real peanuts turned into Peanut Butter by hand. I'll add more stuff to that as I think of more protein foods.

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Thanks for the clarifcation - I had assumed you'd already started on this program.

 

For breakfast protein, if you want to avoid anything too processed, something like the Thor's Raw Power protein powder may be an option since you're trying to eat more raw stuff. Vega is really good, no question, but I couldn't say offhand how "processed" it really is, so stick with what you're comfortable with.

 

For high-protein oatmeal, I think that regular oatmeal is all pretty close to the same (at least from what I've seen.) The ones with added protein always seem to be from whey, so steer clear of those unless you are fortunate enough to find one that's actually vegan. And, if you do find such a thing, let me know because I'd be interested in it myself

 

The peanut butter bars aren't a bad idea. Naturally, nuts and seeds have a great protein content, so keep those as a staple if you're going to go in favor of being mostly raw and that should help out nicely with the protein intake.

 

Like I said, just keep things reasonable for your workload as far as training duration and make sure you get enough food to get by on and be able to make your goals without starvation and I think in time you're going to be seeing some results!

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I weighed 275 at my heaviest and cut down to 165 at my smallest. Right now I weigh 175 and have roughly the same body fat as when I was 165. I have some love handles and a pouch over my belly button area. I lost most of the weight around two years ago and the skin is looking better all the time, but it doesn't seem that it will ever look great without surgery.

 

What I have found to work best is like others have said, get your body fat lower and build up some muscle to fill the skin. This is pretty obvious, but Veganessentials is completely right in the way your body stores fat and builds muscle. When I first cut calories, I lost quite a bit of fat, then I hit a plateau. I increased the amount I ate and stopped going so crazy with cardio and fat started to shed again. Now that I have realized the skin isn't going to melt away by dieting, I have started to really bulk for the first time. This seems to be the best way to go about it in my experience so far.

 

About the high protein oatmeal: oat bran has about as much protein as your average legume (~25% composition) and can either be eaten alone or cooked into regular oatmeal. It is a processed food by definition, but it is the healthiest fraction of the grain, so it probably isn't that bad. If you do use it, know that it cooks quickly, absorbs more water that regular oatmeal and must be stirred consistently while cooking to avoid clumping. It doesn't taste as good as whole oats, so you might want to arm yourself with some stevia and cinnamon to flavor it without adding a bunch of sugar.

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Hey Cubby;

 

When you hit 165 and started bulking where you nervous about gaining fat back?

 

How did you avoid putting fat back on?

 

Did you keep monitoring how much you ate and just kept it steady? Did you use a body fat scale to make sure the weight going on was muscle?

 

It is inspiring to see that someone can become so lean ( and so strong for your size, I read your bodybuilding site ) after losing so much fat.

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I've heard that there are now scales that can measure body fat. What is their margin of error? What are the good brands and models?

 

There are two types. One is held in your hands and the other is stepped on with bare feet. I had one once and thought it sucked. I cannot remember the science behind them but do know that the hand held ones can only really estimate upper body and the foot model can only estimate lower body - so the number will always be off. At least, that's my understanding.

 

If you are only looking for a TREND and not 100% accuracy then using the same person with calipers is a cheap way to go.

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Hi Pink!

I might have missed this, but how much water do you drink? That really helps to flush out toxins, excessive salt, etc.

Also, if you look at how bodybuilders/figure comp. eat, they space out their meals--5-6 smaller meals throughout the day. This gives you a steady energy supply without the insulin spikes. Large meals eaten at one time, from what I've researched, cause you to release a lot of insulin which can cause you to store excessive fat.

I do have to say that everyone is different in body chemistry so it might be trial and error for a while. Just some other things to try if you need to.

 

One more thing I have experienced with myself, since I have not been weight training consistently for the past few months(maybe 1time/wk), my weight has not changed that much, but i am more flabbily (as i call it), so i know my body composition has changed. i concur with everyone else, in that, weight training should help tighten things up more. (i am speaking to myself at the same time) :0)

You are very motivating and inspiring. You should be so proud of yourself for losing that amount of weight!

 

It is really a struggle and not as easy as the magazines/media make it seem.

Keep up the awesome work!

i hope my tidbits don't come off as being rude or pushy. I am struggling with weight loss issues, so I can relate in some sense.

 

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When I started gaining weight back, yes, I was afraid of putting fat back on. I still am afraid of doing so. I used some calculators to see how many calories I need to maintain, gain, etc. and kept my caloric intake actually slightly below maintenance level and my body seemed to just find its way to a comfortable weight for it. I sat at 175 for quite some time and am now trying to bulk beyond that. I checked my body fat by an electronic impedance device, if I am remembering the terminology correctly, at a local gym. I know I don't have tons of loose skin and when I flex it tends to mostly disappear. I am lucky to have some fairly elastic skin, thanks to youth and maybe some genetics. My arms, shoulders and back, though, look much more defined than my stomach area. I have a "four pack" but I can't seem to get the bottom two (I know those aren't always terribly defined anyway) to show up at all. I may just need a bit more time and more muscle to fill it in, which is a lot of why I am trying to bulk. I guess it can't be too bad since Robert did give me a VBB profile.

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