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I think a lot of ZMA is placebo. The guy who came up with it is a genious(made THE CLEAR which elite athletes have been testing negative while using for a long time). However unlike things like creatine...blind ZMA studies have shown nothing in terms of recovery. All the positive ZMA studies I've seen over the years have been done by companies that make ZMA. The few studies I've seen done in University settings have shown the same perceived recovery increases in the placebo users and ZMA users. Normally the placebo users feel the benefits of things like this but not at an equal portion to the people really taking ZMA...I can't recall any of those studies mentioning sleep though.
Great post,I have put lot,s of people on ZMA and not one have come back with good results,it,s very good marketing like a lot of supplements.ROBBIEx


That makes sense to me...I know a lot of people that swear by it but I don't see them making any more progress than they did before. As for its intended effect it can even be hazardous. Say your in the fringe of having extremely high natural testosterone...if this worked you'd very likely suffer the same consequences as those taking drugs.

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Hi Rob,


it's the guy you helped out with sending some stuff overseas from Food Fight.


There is ahomeopathic remedy that is called "Calms Forte" I used to work in a nutrition store when I was living in Florida. Apparently, a lot of customers who used the product said it was really helpful.



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Go get some zinc tabs and magnesium tabs. 400mg magnesium + 50mg zinc 30 or so minutes before bed. Don't be surprised if you have vivid dreams, that's deep sleep cycle.

I also find that zinc and magnesium have a positive effect. For a while I was taking 50mg zinc and occasionally 250mg magnesium. The zinc had a noticeable effect on my feeling rested in the morning. Magnesium didn't do anything.


After reading your post I tried 500mg magnesium the past two nights. I'm remembering my dreams a lot more now.... not sure if that's good but I enjoy it. (Unfortunately the content isn't really worth enjoying.)


I've used melatonin on occasion when my sleep times are disrupted and can't fall asleep at a normal hour. The only bad thing I've noticed is that I tend to wake up around 2am when I take it. The body's supposed to be excreting more at this time, so either that's being suppressed or my body's used to the double-dose from earlier.

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vivid dreams is part of the REM sleep cycle and REM is the opposite of the deep sleep cycle. It is thought that prescription and OTC sleep aids (like Benadryl) rob the sleeper of much-needed deep sleep (where all the repair takes place) by prolonging the REM cycles (where the dreaming happens).


You're right that REM is not deep sleep (delta sleep) but both stages are an essential part of the sleep cycle. The body will resume rem or delta sleep if interrupted and negative effects have been seen when either cycle is manually avoided.


No idea how my point plays into ZMA though.

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Ummm getting back on to the topic of Robert Sleeping a little more.

I find I tend not to sleep because of thoughts racing around in my head etc keep me awake.

Little things like having a nice comfortable and uncluttered place to sleep can make a Huge difference.

So yeah if nothing else works, maybe give tidying up your room and ordering things in your bedroom a little could be worth a try, it costs nothing.

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